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Big $$: Leino's abysmal play is masking Stafford's lack of production

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11-03-2011, 12:34 PM
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Big $$: Leino's abysmal play is masking Stafford's lack of production

So Leino get's a monster deal in the offseason, and has failed miserably to produce through the first 11 games (1-1-2, -1, 14:13 ToI/G).

Rightfully so, he has gotten a TON of flak for this.

But lost in the shuffle because of Leino is Drew Stafford. Stafford received a hefty contract in the offseason to PRODUCE OFFENSIVELY, which to date he has not come even close to doing (11GP, 3-2-5, -1).

He hasn't been brutally horrendous like Leino, but he has NOT been scoring or chipping in offensively like WE NEED HIM TO. I actually thought he was okay in the PHI game last night, but do you agree that, if we didn't have Leino to whine about, Drew would be getting a lot more scrutiny?

I do.

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11-03-2011, 12:38 PM
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For sure. Quite a few aspects of the team not operating at 100% right now.

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11-03-2011, 12:38 PM
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Negative attention is rarely motivating. It's a blessing Stafford has been able to fly under the radar as long as he has.

It's still early enough for players to turn things around and who knows when Ennis is back. That will change EVERYTHING.

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11-03-2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
So Leino get's a monster deal in the offseason, and has failed miserably to produce through the first 11 games (1-1-2, -1, 14:13 ToI/G).

Rightfully so, he has gotten a TON of flak for this.

But lost in the shuffle because of Leino is Drew Stafford. Stafford received a hefty contract in the offseason to PRODUCE OFFENSIVELY, which to date he has not come even close to doing (11GP, 3-2-5, -1).

He hasn't been brutally horrendous like Leino, but he has NOT been scoring or chipping in offensively like WE NEED HIM TO. I actually thought he was okay in the PHI game last night, but do you agree that, if we didn't have Leino to whine about, Drew would be getting a lot more scrutiny?

I do.
no need to overreact, it's been 11 games, give these guys at least 20 games

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11-03-2011, 12:41 PM
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no need to overreact, it's been 11 games, give these guys at least 20 games
It's no overreaction. It's a reaction. We gave Staff money to score and he hasn't so far. And my point is, if the focus wasn't on Leino, it'd definitely be on Drew in a higher capacity.

He needs to score. Look at our stats. After our top line, it's Ehrhoff Boyes Gerbe

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11-03-2011, 12:46 PM
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There are a handful of others that aren't producing either. And I've noticed that too. I guess the difference is I personally am not freaking out about any of them. The seasons early. I'll start the nail biting and/or opinions of "sucking" when the Sabres have played 20 games.

Stafford - 3G 2A 5 pts. In 11 games..... That's typical for Drew isn't it? Higher expectations because of a big contract breeds higher disappointment.

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11-03-2011, 12:49 PM
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How long ago was it that people were saying Drew's 2010-11 season wasn't an aberration, as evidenced by his three goals in the first four games, and five points in his first five games? Oh, that was two weeks ago? Now, he's been scoreless for six, and he's a bum? Got it. If his line wasn't getting chances, I'd be more worried. But the Roy-Stafford line has been buzzing for two games now. I expect a big game from those guys this weekend.

Guys, come on, enough with the overarching conclusions based on these little small sample sizes and slumps.

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11-03-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
How long ago was it that people were saying Drew's 2010-11 season wasn't an aberration, as evidenced by his three goals in the first four games, and five points in his first five games? Oh, that was two weeks ago? Now, he's been scoreless for six, and he's a bum? Got it. If his line wasn't getting chances, I'd be more worried. But the Roy-Stafford line has been buzzing for two games now. I expect a big game from those guys this weekend.

Guys, come on, enough with the overarching conclusions based on these little small sample sizes and slumps.
Again...simply pointing out that his lack of production based on $$ has not beed whined about nearly as much, if at all, in comparison to Leino.

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11-03-2011, 12:56 PM
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Cap Hit $/Pt

Player $/Pt
Luke Adam $79,545.45
Marc-Andre Gragnani $183,333.33
Nathan Gerbe $238,888.83
Jason Pominville $353,333.33
Tyler Myers $433,333.33
Thomas Vanek $446,428.56
Matt Ellis $525,000.00
Christian Ehrhoff $571,428.57
Brad Boyes $666,666.67
Drew Stafford $800,000.00
Patrick Kaleta $907,500.00
Andrej Sekera $916,666.67
Derek Roy $1,000,000.00
Jordan Leopold $1,000,000.00
Paul Gaustad $1,150,000.00
Cody McCormick $1,200,000.00
Ville Leino $2,250,000.00

Cap Hit $/Goal

Player $/G
Luke Adam $218,750.00
Nathan Gerbe $716,666.50
Thomas Vanek $892,857.13
Patrick Kaleta $907,500.00
Jason Pominville $1,060,000.00
Drew Stafford $1,333,333.33
Brad Boyes $2,000,000.00
Paul Gaustad $2,300,000.00
Andrej Sekera $2,750,000.00
Jordan Leopold $3,000,000.00
Christian Ehrhoff $4,000,000.00
Derek Roy $4,000,000.00
Ville Leino $4,500,000.00

If we're looking at production vs cost, Roy needs to get his rear in gear, too.

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11-03-2011, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Again...simply pointing out that his lack of production based on $$ has not beed whined about nearly as much, if at all, in comparison to Leino.
Fair enough. That's probably due in part to people being wrapped up with their other targets (Gragnani, Miller, and Leino), that Stafford has at least showed effort, and that he and Roy have been creating chances in the last two games. Stafford is on the team to score goals--his assist numbers will never be high enough to judge him on point totals, and goals are harder to score than assists--so as long as he can score 25+, and provide some quality PK'ing, I'll be fine with him.

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11-03-2011, 01:01 PM
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I dont know if it's still an issue but Stafford left the Florida game limping. When Paul Hamilton ask him about it. Stafford said he didn't hurt it in that game and it's something he's been dealing with for a little bit.

I have no idea if he is still hurting but obviously that would impact his play.

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11-03-2011, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I dont know if it's still an issue but Stafford left the Florida game limping. When Paul Hamilton ask him about it. Stafford said he didn't hurt it in that game and it's something he's been dealing with for a little bit.

I have no idea if he is still hurting but obviously that would impact his play.
Probably pulled something doing the Fu Man Drew workout.


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11-03-2011, 01:05 PM
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Probably pulled something doing the Fu Man Drew workout.



Or he angered Jakob.

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11-03-2011, 01:12 PM
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Drew Stafford is a guy with a 31-goal season, and a 20-goal season to his name, and he's younger than Leino. He earned his money, and I think there's a general feeling that the goals will come for him. He started hot before going into his slump, and we all heard about how he worked hard over the offseason to get ready for this season. Most goal scorers are streaky and there's no reason to believe he won't come out of this and have a good year.

Leino on the other hand has one 19-goal, 53-point season. The rest of his career history is not worth $1m a season without that one good year (and a good playoffs the year before that). We also expect him to switch positions in order to fit in our lineup. There are a lot more reasons to worry about Leino, and that's probably why people are more concerned about him. And if he fails, he's signed 2 years longer than Stafford.

Stafford plays physical, goes to the net and stands up for his teammates. Even when he's not scoring, you can tell he's trying. Leino doesn't bring much of that type of effort to his game, so when he's not scoring it makes him that much more frustrating to watch. I hope he turns it around soon.

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11-03-2011, 01:15 PM
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Staffords compete level flat out sucked last night...Sleepy needs to wake up.

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11-03-2011, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkr0x View Post
Drew Stafford is a guy with a 31-goal season, and a 20-goal season to his name, and he's younger than Leino. He earned his money, and I think there's a general feeling that the goals will come for him. He started hot before going into his slump, and we all heard about how he worked hard over the offseason to get ready for this season. Most goal scorers are streaky and there's no reason to believe he won't come out of this and have a good year.

Leino on the other hand has one 19-goal, 53-point season. The rest of his career history is not worth $1m a season without that one good year (and a good playoffs the year before that). We also expect him to switch positions in order to fit in our lineup. There are a lot more reasons to worry about Leino, and that's probably why people are more concerned about him. And if he fails, he's signed 2 years longer than Stafford.

Stafford plays physical, goes to the net and stands up for his teammates. Even when he's not scoring, you can tell he's trying. Leino doesn't bring much of that type of effort to his game, so when he's not scoring it makes him that much more frustrating to watch. I hope he turns it around soon.
26 pts in 30 games over the past two playoffs for Leino. He "earned" his money too.

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11-03-2011, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
So Leino get's a monster deal in the offseason, and has failed miserably to produce through the first 11 games (1-1-2, -1, 14:13 ToI/G).

Rightfully so, he has gotten a TON of flak for this.

But lost in the shuffle because of Leino is Drew Stafford. Stafford received a hefty contract in the offseason to PRODUCE OFFENSIVELY, which to date he has not come even close to doing (11GP, 3-2-5, -1).

He hasn't been brutally horrendous like Leino, but he has NOT been scoring or chipping in offensively like WE NEED HIM TO. I actually thought he was okay in the PHI game last night, but do you agree that, if we didn't have Leino to whine about, Drew would be getting a lot more scrutiny?

I do.
insert Derek Roy, in place of Stafford, and we can have the same conversation right?

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11-03-2011, 01:36 PM
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insert Derek Roy, in place of Stafford, and we can have the same conversation right?
Roy is struggling but the arguement with Stafford and Leino is their new contracts are part of that. In that light Roy doesn't really fit.

In fact every year since signing his current deal Roy has been very productive.

But I agree he is struggling right now and needs to produce.

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11-03-2011, 01:43 PM
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How long ago was it that people were saying Drew's 2010-11 season wasn't an aberration, as evidenced by his three goals in the first four games, and five points in his first five games? Oh, that was two weeks ago? Now, he's been scoreless for six, and he's a bum?
Jbuddy never said that in his original post.

He simply pointed out that Stafford's lack of production has been flying under the radar.

Which is true.

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11-03-2011, 02:28 PM
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26 pts in 30 games over the past two playoffs for Leino. He "earned" his money too.
30 games is such a small sample size, especially when it was 21 points in one great playoff run and 5 points in 11 games the next year. Maybe if he had 3 or 4 playoff years like that you start to pay him for his playoff performance, but again you're essentially paying him $27 million based on one year and the previous playoffs, all at left wing.

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11-03-2011, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
So Leino get's a monster deal in the offseason, and has failed miserably to produce through the first 11 games (1-1-2, -1, 14:13 ToI/G).

Rightfully so, he has gotten a TON of flak for this.

But lost in the shuffle because of Leino is Drew Stafford. Stafford received a hefty contract in the offseason to PRODUCE OFFENSIVELY, which to date he has not come even close to doing (11GP, 3-2-5, -1).

He hasn't been brutally horrendous like Leino, but he has NOT been scoring or chipping in offensively like WE NEED HIM TO. I actually thought he was okay in the PHI game last night, but do you agree that, if we didn't have Leino to whine about, Drew would be getting a lot more scrutiny?

I do.

It's not only Stafford that has been disappointing. If you look at the production, we have a lot of people who need to step it up. Granted you can say well X player is putting in the effort night in night out but they just haven't been able to score, so it's not a question about effort... they're just snakebitten or what have you. But if you say that about half your team then the team is in trouble. Right now if the team HAD to score a meaningful goal, there is only one line we'd feel comfortable about doing that, and that is VAP. GGK is a good line but, that line is what it is, an energy line that forechecks well and can put the occassional puck in, but aside from Gerbe, there really isn't the talent there for us to expect any sort of consistant production. Roy, Stafford, Boyes, Leino, (and Ennis when he comes back) need to start producing. They are all being paid (except Ennis who is on an ELC I think?) to produce and we are getting little secondary scoring support at this time. I am not panicking about this, it's too early in the season, but nonetheless it is disconcerting when there is only one line going and we have all this supposed forward depth.

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11-03-2011, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Fair enough. That's probably due in part to people being wrapped up with their other targets (Gragnani, Miller, and Leino), that Stafford has at least showed effort, and that he and Roy have been creating chances in the last two games. Stafford is on the team to score goals--his assist numbers will never be high enough to judge him on point totals, and goals are harder to score than assists--so as long as he can score 25+, and provide some quality PK'ing, I'll be fine with him.
The bolded is my concern, because he's not doing that right now. Despite the effort, which has been okay for the most part, he isn't scoring. We (me in particular) pick on Leino for cashing in and not producing, and my point is that because of Leino's issues, Stafford's lack of production after the new deal is going unnoticed, for better or worse.

If it ain't Leino, it's someone else. We'll all always find someone or something(s) to ***** about.

I would definitely like more production, that's really the underlying theme behind my comparison to the Leino situation.
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I dont know if it's still an issue but Stafford left the Florida game limping. When Paul Hamilton ask him about it. Stafford said he didn't hurt it in that game and it's something he's been dealing with for a little bit.

I have no idea if he is still hurting but obviously that would impact his play.
Interesting, because I didn't catch that. Again, I'm not overly concerned with Stafford in the manner I am with Leino (we've seen Drew succeed here; Leino not at all)...but I find it interesting that little has been mentioned about 3g in 11GP after his notable pay increase. Not really attacking Drew as much as it may have seemed, sorry for that.

(he does need to produce more, though)
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insert Derek Roy, in place of Stafford, and we can have the same conversation right?
Not for purposes of this debate - as I'm comparing two guys who cashed in this past offseason.

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11-03-2011, 03:04 PM
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Jbuddy never said that in his original post.

He simply pointed out that Stafford's lack of production has been flying under the radar.

Which is true.
Right. And my overall point is more of a question: would many be making a huge fuss about him if Leino weren't here? And I think the answer is a resounding "yes". We are all quick to criticize players, yet little has been made about Drew and his 3 goals after cashing in.

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11-03-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punkr0x View Post
30 games is such a small sample size, especially when it was 21 points in one great playoff run and 5 points in 11 games the next year. Maybe if he had 3 or 4 playoff years like that you start to pay him for his playoff performance, but again you're essentially paying him $27 million based on one year and the previous playoffs, all at left wing.
Are you talking about what he should be paid or what the market dictates?

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11-03-2011, 03:11 PM
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I haven't really had a problem with Drew's game so far. He's driving to the net with and without the puck quite a bit, it just hasn't been going in for him. The second powerplay unit has also been a giant pile of suck, so he's not going to get very many extra point there. Assuming Roy can start putting in some of the glorious chances he's been getting, that line and Stafford should put up some points.

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