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Bryan Murray May Be Forced To Make A Deal? (If Trends Continue)

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Old
11-24-2011, 10:58 PM
  #351
playasRus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
One player could only return a 3rd rounder with no one else even interested in that.

Turris has several teams calling Phoenix and has Phoenix unwilling to deal him without a pretty significant return. There was a time when the Filatov situation hadn't reached a brink...but it eventually did, Turris isn't there yet, if he ever gets there.

?
Turris has yet to return anything at all, not even a 3rd rounder so your argument in invalid.

It's kind of like saying a used TV is worth more than 50 dollars because I'm asking for 200 dollars.

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11-24-2011, 11:03 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by playasRus View Post
Turris has yet to return anything at all, not even a 3rd rounder so your argument in invalid.

It's kind of like saying a used TV is worth more than 50 dollars because I'm asking for 200 dollars.
Think about it, if Turris was up for grabs for a 2nd right now do you think 29 teams would say no? Is that invalid? He's not up for grabs for a 2nd right now. Phoenix wants him in the lineup to help them, or help them get a better return for him.

I'm not even sure what we're arguing about anymore but I'd be sincerely shocked if Turris ever went for a 3rd.

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11-24-2011, 11:03 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
One player could only return a 3rd rounder with no one else even interested in that.

Turris has several teams calling Phoenix and has Phoenix unwilling to deal him without a pretty significant return. There was a time when the Filatov situation hadn't reached a brink...but it eventually did, Turris isn't there yet, if he ever gets there.

?
The most important piece of missing information above is what those teams were offering for Turris?

I know from reading so many trade proposals involving our team where my threshold is... which is pretty much that any of our top-5 prospects should be off limits and any pairing of two 1st/2nd round picks or drafted prospects is an automatic "No ****ing way!"

Like I said before, I think he'd have to improve quite a bit to even become a hollow 2nd liner and I don't value hollow 2nd liners all that much. So I would price him fairly low and there are certain types of players that I wouldn't even consider trading for him because of the high probability that it would blow up in our faces.

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11-24-2011, 11:04 PM
  #354
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Not to mention it's purely speculative. Filatov wasn't shopped and there wasn't a very public fight over his rights/wish to play for another team. Filatov asked for a trade, Murray contacted the Jackets and he was moved. Most of the other GMs on the floor had no idea what had happened.

It was a result of odd circumstances that he ended up in Ottawa the way that he did. There were plenty of nice things said about Filatov before he was moved. Turris gets the nice talk now -- if he's moved I bet there is more to it.

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11-24-2011, 11:06 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
The most important piece of missing information above is what those teams were offering for Turris?

I know from reading so many trade proposals involving our team where my threshold is... which is pretty much that any of our top-5 prospects should be off limits and any pairing of two 1st/2nd round picks or drafted prospects is an automatic "No ****ing way!"

Like I said before, I think he'd have to improve quite a bit to even become a hollow 2nd liner and I don't value hollow 2nd liners all that much. So I would price him fairly low and there are certain types of players that I wouldn't even consider trading for him because of the high probability that it would blow up in our faces.
I think Dorion said something along the lines of they think he'd slot into our 2nd line right now. Can't remember for sure though. Regardless, I agree. I'm not ponying up much for the guy until he proves he can score.

It's either he scores and they get something for him or he doesn't score and they're left with a bust prospect. I really doubt it gets to a level of friction that Filatov got to though.

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11-24-2011, 11:08 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Not to mention it's purely speculative. Filatov wasn't shopped and there wasn't a very public fight over his rights/wish to play for another team. Filatov asked for a trade, Murray contacted the Jackets and he was moved. Most of the other GMs on the floor had no idea what had happened.

It was a result of odd circumstances that he ended up in Ottawa the way that he did. There were plenty of nice things said about Filatov before he was moved. Turris gets the nice talk now -- if he's moved I bet there is more to it.
Pretty sure it was widely known that Filatov was marketed to the entire league and only one team had interest. Howsen isn't that stupid.

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11-24-2011, 11:20 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Pretty sure it was widely known that Filatov was marketed to the entire league and only one team had interest. Howsen isn't that stupid.
Seemed to me that the asking price really went down when a player they wanted was available with the Sens next pick. It's probably why some of the other scouts / team reps / non-Sens reviewers expressed a bit of surprise at the low price Bryan Murray paid after the deal was done.

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11-24-2011, 11:47 PM
  #358
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I'd be ok with a trade for Turris. He hasn't been that good, but he's been good enough to be in the NHL on a regular basis (makes him better than Filatov).

The main issue is the Senators have nothing that could interest Phoenix. Nothing whatsoever.

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11-24-2011, 11:50 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
I'd be ok with a trade for Turris. He hasn't been that good, but he's been good enough to be in the NHL on a regular basis (makes him better than Filatov).

The main issue is the Senators have nothing that could interest Phoenix. Nothing whatsoever.
I(along with 30 other GM's) tend to disagree.

The main issue is the fact that were not willing to overpay for Turris at the moment.

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11-25-2011, 01:26 AM
  #360
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I wouldn't underestimate the lure of playoff revenue as enough incentive for the team to make a deal for a "rental" player as long as it doesn't disrupt the long term plan for the team.

I think the issue boils down to which non "core" players have enough value to trade for a rental.

There are some decent players due for UFA, although I guess the key factor in that being what defines "decent"

I think Penner would be fine rental for Ottawa as would Brad Boyes and Tuomo Ruutuu. All are probably available and wouldn't cost too much to acquire

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11-25-2011, 01:45 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
I(along with 30 other GM's) tend to disagree.

The main issue is the fact that were not willing to overpay for Turris at the moment.
umm, why did you say "tend to disagree" instead of simply stating your disagreement? People on the internet keep saying that and I wonder what it means.

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11-25-2011, 02:01 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
I think Penner would be fine rental for Ottawa as would Brad Boyes and Tuomo Ruutuu. All are probably available and wouldn't cost too much to acquire
I can't see LA giving away Penner for a fraction of the ridiculous package they gave up for him. I think most GM's would let him rot on the 4th line throughout the playoffs until he hit UFA before they would clearly demonstrate how badly they were bent over a barrel just a few short months ago.

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11-25-2011, 06:43 AM
  #363
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umm, why did you say "tend to disagree" instead of simply stating your disagreement? People on the internet keep saying that and I wonder what it means.
less smug way of saying ''your completely off base'' imo.

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11-25-2011, 07:46 AM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Pretty sure it was widely known that Filatov was marketed to the entire league and only one team had interest. Howsen isn't that stupid.
Pretty sure analysts mentioned how they were surprised and the other GMs on the floor were surprised when it happened. All of them considered it a great deal for Ottawa. You're assuming he was shopped when there is no indication of this.

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11-25-2011, 08:15 AM
  #365
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Maybe Cbus' GM felt bad about wearing out Murray's poopchute in the Leclair deal.

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11-25-2011, 09:04 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Pretty sure analysts mentioned how they were surprised and the other GMs on the floor were surprised when it happened. All of them considered it a great deal for Ottawa. You're assuming he was shopped when there is no indication of this.
Everyone was surprised. That doesn't mean he wasn't shopped to the whole league?

The guys on the radio with Pierre the next morning were saying that by the sounds of it Howsen told the whole league this guy is up for grabs and only one team bit. Don't know where they got that from though.


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11-25-2011, 10:18 AM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Pretty sure analysts mentioned how they were surprised and the other GMs on the floor were surprised when it happened. All of them considered it a great deal for Ottawa. You're assuming he was shopped when there is no indication of this.
Maybe you're confusing this with the Halak trade.

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11-25-2011, 10:25 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
I'd be ok with a trade for Turris. He hasn't been that good, but he's been good enough to be in the NHL on a regular basis (makes him better than Filatov).

The main issue is the Senators have nothing that could interest Phoenix. Nothing whatsoever.
We have a 1st. We have a top/quality prospect.
That is apparently the asking price. Therefore, we have something whatsoever.

I "tend to think" you are completely off-base and have nothing backing up your statement at all. There are countless combinations of packages we could offer them that they would accept for Turris.

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11-25-2011, 10:28 AM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Everyone was surprised. That doesn't mean he wasn't shopped to the whole league?

The guys on the radio with Pierre the next morning were saying that by the sounds of it Howsen told the whole league this guy is up for grabs and only one team bit. Don't know where they got that from though.
Thats what I heard too, from several different places. Not sure how we got on this topic, though

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11-25-2011, 10:32 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Thats what I heard too, from several different places. Not sure how we got on this topic, though
CJam has a vendetta to contest anything I say.

One of those debates where you forget what you're arguing about in the first place.

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11-25-2011, 10:36 AM
  #371
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An inevitable 10+ games injury to Spezza will put this team back on the Fail4Nail track. Turris, Boris, and Brassard are nice, but I think status quo should be maintained at least until the trade deadline. There is no point of overpaying for somebody right now unless the price is right. I am all in favour of Turris for JOB+2nd, but Maloney won't bite unless the return is much more significant. Other teams will likely outbid Ottawa who is on a rebuild and as such, should retain its major assets.

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11-25-2011, 10:39 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by armani View Post
An inevitable 10+ games injury to Spezza will put this team back on the Fail4Nail track. Turris, Boris, and Brassard are nice, but I think status quo should be maintained at least until the trade deadline. There is no point of overpaying for somebody right now unless the price is right. I am all in favour of Turris for JOB+2nd, but Maloney won't bite unless the return is much more significant. Other teams will likely outbid Ottawa who is on a rebuild and as such, should retain its major assets.
Spezza may get hurt but I don't think this team well play dead quite like they did last year with Spezza out and Clouston running the show. They'll be worse off but it won't be a 1-15 record type of thing. If Regin's in they can stay competitive without scoring as much....but if Da Costa's in the top spot with Smith at #2 we could expect losing some spots in the standings.

Regarding the bold, Turris is most likely to go to a rebuilding team (or a ****** team)...any team trading for him would be doing so in the thinking that they are getting a young asset...even if they use younger assets to do it.

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11-25-2011, 10:52 AM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
CJam has a vendetta to contest anything I say.

One of those debates where you forget what you're arguing about in the first place.
Who cares, haha. There isn't a single poster on this site that doesn't think he's totally out to lunch.

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11-25-2011, 11:45 AM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Everyone was surprised. That doesn't mean he wasn't shopped to the whole league?

The guys on the radio with Pierre the next morning were saying that by the sounds of it Howsen told the whole league this guy is up for grabs and only one team bit. Don't know where they got that from though.
It seems more logical that with the analysts being surprised, and the GMs on the floor being surprised, and everyone thinking that it was a great deal for Ottawa that he was not shopped around the way that you believe or some people have speculated.

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11-25-2011, 11:46 AM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
CJam has a vendetta to contest anything I say.

One of those debates where you forget what you're arguing about in the first place.
I contest what you say when you're wrong. You're comparing Turris and Filatov when they're completely different situations (which is what started the conversation.)

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