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Rangers Oilers Proposal That Makes Sense

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Old
09-07-2004, 10:59 AM
  #1
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Rangers Oilers Proposal That Makes Sense

Since the Rangers can use a real fighter with some skill. I would not be surprised if George Laraque ends up with the Rangers by the waiver draft. Sather drafted him. After not briniging back Simon and Barnaby, I think the chances of Laraque with the Rangers are good. Too bad they wont take back Poti.

How about something like this?

Rangers - RW Laraque and LW Moreau
Oilers - D Rachunek and 4th in 05

Would this be fair deal?

Rangers get a tough guy who can actually play and a real LW with grit and leadership.

Oilers get a young dman with potential and has alot of NHL experience at the age of 24.

What u think?

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09-07-2004, 11:06 AM
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modestfwd
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No.

JOrtmeyer, I have read many of your posts. "Sign ________" "Trade for _______". Give it a rest. Please.

I see no reason to make that trade. Two more spots that a kid could have, taken away.
AND WE GIVE UP A DRAFT PICK. I don't care how late the pick is, I don't want to give up a 9th rounder next year.

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09-07-2004, 11:12 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
Since the Rangers can use a real fighter with some skill. I would not be surprised if George Laraque ends up with the Rangers by the waiver draft. Sather drafted him. After not briniging back Simon and Barnaby, I think the chances of Laraque with the Rangers are good. Too bad they wont take back Poti.

How about something like this?

Rangers - RW Laraque and LW Moreau
Oilers - D Rachunek and 4th in 05

Would this be fair deal?

Rangers get a tough guy who can actually play and a real LW with grit and leadership.

Oilers get a young dman with potential and has alot of NHL experience at the age of 24.

What u think?
As much as I wonder what kind of Kool-Aid Kevin Lowe drinks, he stated that to him, the value for Laraque is a first rounder. That in of itself should tell you to look elsewhere.

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Old
09-07-2004, 11:20 AM
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Davisian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modestfwd
Give it a rest. Please.

I see no reason to make that trade. Two more spots that a kid could have, taken away.
AND WE GIVE UP A DRAFT PICK. I don't care how late the pick is, I don't want to give up a 9th rounder next year.

Jeez, go easy, its not like there's much else to talk about.

I don't see a problem trading for guys who are still relatively young.

Having said that, and even though I don't know Edmonton's needs, I don't see them liking that trade..

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09-07-2004, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modestfwd
No.

JOrtmeyer, I have read many of your posts. "Sign ________" "Trade for _______". Give it a rest. Please.

I see no reason to make that trade. Two more spots that a kid could have, taken away.
AND WE GIVE UP A DRAFT PICK. I don't care how late the pick is, I don't want to give up a 9th rounder next year.
No one forces you to read his posts.

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Old
09-07-2004, 12:47 PM
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personally i think the rangers should stick to the Senators strategy in rebuilding. This means the rangers should just stick to drafting and developing prospects and no trading.

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09-07-2004, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOrtmeyer41
Since the Rangers can use a real fighter with some skill. I would not be surprised if George Laraque ends up with the Rangers by the waiver draft. Sather drafted him. After not briniging back Simon and Barnaby, I think the chances of Laraque with the Rangers are good. Too bad they wont take back Poti.

How about something like this?

Rangers - RW Laraque and LW Moreau
Oilers - D Rachunek and 4th in 05

Would this be fair deal?

Rangers get a tough guy who can actually play and a real LW with grit and leadership.

Oilers get a young dman with potential and has alot of NHL experience at the age of 24.

What u think?
This trade is quite lopsided from an Oilers POV. Even though they get a solid young defenseman, they lose two critical role players in a division that requires you to have guys who fill the roles of enforcer, or checking forward with some scoring talent.

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09-07-2004, 01:01 PM
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It's not a horrible suggestion...

Getting Laraque would not be a bad thing, even if it was for Rachunek straight-up. He's a very good enforcer, and he can play the game well. And I don't see how getting Laraque displaces any youth. First, he's 27, so he's not old. Second, I don't know what young enforcer that I'd like to see out there 10 minutes a night who is currently fighthing for a position on this team.

As for Moreau...the guy's coming off a career year, and perhaps is starting to hit his stride. 17 even strength goals and three shorties are tough to come by. His stock has risen a bit as he's also a decent PKer and a decent 'checker' who would actually look pretty good on Holik's left side.

Obviously the package suggested wouldn't land those two players. You may be looking more like Rachunek, Lundmark and a second, to be more fair to the Oilers.

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Old
09-07-2004, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Brownstone
This trade is quite lopsided from an Oilers POV. Even though they get a solid young defenseman, they lose two critical role players in a division that requires you to have guys who fill the roles of enforcer, or checking forward with some scoring talent.
Actually, I think it's lopsided the other way. I'm a big fan of Moreau, and Laraque is a feared enforcer (I'm not of the opinion that enforcers do much to help a team with a hockey game, but that's a subject for another time), but they're still depth players. A 25-year-old top 4 d-man for 2 depth forwards is a bad trade, no matter how you look at it.

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09-07-2004, 01:25 PM
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What do people have against Rachunek? I think he is a potenial 3-4 defenseman and I see alot of people wanting to trade him.

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09-07-2004, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather
What do people have against Rachunek? I think he is a potenial 3-4 defenseman and I see alot of people wanting to trade him.
Potential? Rachunek proved himself to be a bonafide top 4 guy by earning that kind of ice time on a stacked Ottawa blueline. How pretty much everyone threw out Rachunek's entire career based on a handful of bad games after the deadline is beyond me.

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09-07-2004, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather
What do people have against Rachunek? I think he is a potenial 3-4 defenseman and I see alot of people wanting to trade him.
Well the only other player with real value that might be dealt is Poti, and I doubt Oilers will take him back. Id keep Rachunek over Poti but if we deal Rachunek to get a forward or 2 that can play, well we should do it. We dont have depth upfront.

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09-07-2004, 01:36 PM
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Laraque is overrated IMO. Rarely fights anymore and has not enough skills to be usefull in any other way.
Ethan Moreau is an important role player for the Oilers, but thats what he is: a role player. We have enough young role players.

Rachunek on the other hand has the talent to be more than a role player. He saw 1st line minutes with the Sens.

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Old
09-07-2004, 01:55 PM
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Ethan Moreau is the heart and soul of the Oilers, he was recently rewarded with a new contract.

Georges Laraque once said that if he was ever traded from Edmonton he would NEVER fight again... take it how you please.

This trade proposition doesn't seem to hold much water.

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09-07-2004, 01:55 PM
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Didn't Chris Simon pretty much prove that the way of the enforcer is pretty much obsolete in today's NHL?

Last year Simon was an absolute brute for the Rangers. Physical, mean, terrifying. And an effective 2nd/3rd line PF to boot.

The result?

His 'enforcement' skills were so feared that Jason freakin' Doig almost ended Eric Lindros career. Petr Nedved and Alex Kovalev spent most nights being treated by the opposition like Schlinger welcomed Beecher to Oz. PECA took Jamie Lundmark's knee, elbowed Poti in the face, and Nedved in the head, all in one game! Eric Cairns ended Richard Scott's career, Joel Bouchard got treated like a human ping-pong ball, Darcy Tucker tried to jump Brian Leetch, and Messier had to throttle Jason Blake almost to death (o.k. I enjoyed that last one.)

And while Simon's enforcing skills were having no positive impact at all, he managed to repeatedly leave his team, the worst PK'ing team in hockey, down a man. He also got tossed out of several games, and had some really questionable moments of judgment (*cough* Fedetenko *cough*).

Seriously, Laraque's a big, bad, tough guy who I certainly wouldn't want to annoy. But none of that has a thing to do with winning hockey games anymore. What I'll miss from Chris Simon is the quality 2nd/3rd line minutes he contributed, and the presence along the boards and in the corners that he represented. His PIMs and 'fighting skills' will not be missed at all. And why a team terrifyingly short on NHL experienced defensemen would trade away a 25 year old with 200+ quality games for a 4th line forward . . . no idea.

Don't get me wrong, I actually love Laraque. I think he's one of the five best interviews in hockey, a terrific community influence, and an entertaining guy out on the ice. But the Rangers would be well advised to expend resources on more pressing needs. (defense, defense, defense, defense . . .)

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09-07-2004, 01:57 PM
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Laraque doesn't fight...

because not to many people want to fight him. I remember the playoffs a couple seasons ago against Dallas where he made Hatcher his personal ***** by slamming him every chance. He's a good guy to have as your enfocer, out there for 8-10 minutes per night.

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09-07-2004, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak
Potential? Rachunek proved himself to be a bonafide top 4 guy by earning that kind of ice time on a stacked Ottawa blueline. How pretty much everyone threw out Rachunek's entire career based on a handful of bad games after the deadline is beyond me.
Rachunek is good... he's a 2-way d-man, and he actually balnces his game out (unlike our past "2-way" d-men, ie, Mironov, Gusarov, Van Impe). I think him for de Vries is the epitome of a fair trade... we also got Giroux out of that, but Giroux's are not hard to come by.

I think JOrtmeyer suggested Moreau...? You know, I think it's great how you always wanna shake things up! Good entusiasm all the time. But, as much as I get a laugh at his constant proposition, the Moreau suggestion is probably the best idea I've heard all summer. It would probably cost us Lundmark and Marshall or something... the only problem is, we'd then be back to square one on LW... sure, we'd have a first line LW, but only 2 legit ones after that... you'd have to call someone up, and there's not a lot of NHL talent in Hartford now. Nigel Dawes, maybe? Probably too optimistic.

Also, I'd like to give Lundmark one last shot... let me use this post to analyze our lines...

Moreau-Nylander-Jagr
Wiseman-Holik-Balej
Murray-Moore-Ortmeyer
Strudwick-Betts-(Giroux, Scott?)

I like the first line, but it looks a little weak after that. Ideally, Murray - and to a greater extent - Ortmeyer should start the season on the 4th line. With Lundmark traded and the way Sather's working, that would be impossible. So right now, I give 100% support to signing Rucinsky, Hlavac, even McAmmond. Anyone who is likely to bring offense... Lundmark proved he's a big question mark, I still have faith in Hlavac, and Rucinsky would be the safest bet. I realize my dream of bringing back Andreas Johansson will not come true...

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09-07-2004, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modestfwd
No.

JOrtmeyer, I have read many of your posts. "Sign ________" "Trade for _______". Give it a rest. Please.

I see no reason to make that trade. Two more spots that a kid could have, taken away.
AND WE GIVE UP A DRAFT PICK. I don't care how late the pick is, I don't want to give up a 9th rounder next year.
well first of all what do u want a team of kids who will get beat up constantly,toughness is needed and laraque is a real heavy weight , he is like 6'2" or something like 245 lbs thats one big strong guy, would be a great 4th liner and a decent 3rd liner if any injuries occur, and yes ortneyer he can play.but i wouldnt make the trade, wouldnt want moreau. but a trade for laraque a 4th rouynder rather a 5th rounder i would do it.some times ortmeyers trades are silly but everyone makes wierd proposals, plus never even seen u post on this board, what are u somne type of informant" I have read many of your posts"<~~ ts like you are eyeing his every move


"AND WE GIVE UP A DRAFT PICK. I don't care how late the pick is, I don't want to give up a 9th rounder next year."-QUOTE=modestfwd

to bad it dont matter what u WANT(I don't want to give up a 9th rounder) , cause your not the gm , and by reading your posts it tells me that u dont understand about having toughness in a lineup to protect the youth. if these kids get beat up constantly they will be scared to attack the puck, rush up ice, always thinking i dont want to get hit or elbowed or injured, so with some one like laraque that will be prevented also having sturdwick and murray around helps quit a bit.so yes laraque would be a great player to add to the NYR lineup, and he is still young good 4th liner

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09-07-2004, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
Rachunek is good... he's a 2-way d-man, and he actually balnces his game out (unlike our past "2-way" d-men, ie, Mironov, Gusarov, Van Impe). I think him for de Vries is the epitome of a fair trade... we also got Giroux out of that, but Giroux's are not hard to come by.

I think JOrtmeyer suggested Moreau...? You know, I think it's great how you always wanna shake things up! Good entusiasm all the time. But, as much as I get a laugh at his constant proposition, the Moreau suggestion is probably the best idea I've heard all summer. It would probably cost us Lundmark and Marshall or something... the only problem is, we'd then be back to square one on LW... sure, we'd have a first line LW, but only 2 legit ones after that... you'd have to call someone up, and there's not a lot of NHL talent in Hartford now. Nigel Dawes, maybe? Probably too optimistic.

Also, I'd like to give Lundmark one last shot... let me use this post to analyze our lines...

Moreau-Nylander-Jagr
Wiseman-Holik-Balej
Murray-Moore-Ortmeyer
Strudwick-Betts-(Giroux, Scott?)

I like the first line, but it looks a little weak after that. Ideally, Murray - and to a greater extent - Ortmeyer should start the season on the 4th line. With Lundmark traded and the way Sather's working, that would be impossible. So right now, I give 100% support to signing Rucinsky, Hlavac, even McAmmond. Anyone who is likely to bring offense... Lundmark proved he's a big question mark, I still have faith in Hlavac, and Rucinsky would be the safest bet. I realize my dream of bringing back Andreas Johansson will not come true...
I think Mikael Samuelsson can be a better signing than Hlavac or Johansson. Id also like Schaslivy, Novo, McAmmond, Rucinsky, umm I wonder if their is a LW that has size, skill and grit available.

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09-07-2004, 03:25 PM
  #20
Davisian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
Didn't Chris Simon pretty much prove that the way of the enforcer is pretty much obsolete in today's NHL?

Absolutely fantastic post...

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09-07-2004, 03:52 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bachul
As much as I wonder what kind of Kool-Aid Kevin Lowe drinks, he stated that to him, the value for Laraque is a first rounder. That in of itself should tell you to look elsewhere.

That is laughable and i wouldn't give a 4th rounder for him.

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09-07-2004, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian
Absolutely fantastic post...
*chuckle* thanks, I think. Actually, from the rest of the thread, I wonder if you are the only one who read it ;-)

Oh, and for the guy who did the lines:

I'd actually be interested in Moreau, but is it really realistic to just plunk him on the first line? Isn't he really more of a 2nd/3rd line guy in Edmonton? Personally I figure the lines will look a bit like:

Rucinsky (you can feel it coming) - Nylander-Jagr
Lundmark (until he screws up) - Holik - Balej
Murray-Messier (it's going to happen) -Ortmeyer

With Giroux and Wiseman probably pushing hardest for spots, and a fourth line probably centered by Betts. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Weller or Grenier make the team, as either could cheaply and enthusiastically provide for free the 'toughness' that Laraque would cost so much to provide. That, and Sather has a serious soft-spot for goons.

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09-07-2004, 04:10 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
*chuckle* thanks, I think. Actually, from the rest of the thread, I wonder if you are the only one who read it ;-)

Oh, and for the guy who did the lines:

I'd actually be interested in Moreau, but is it really realistic to just plunk him on the first line? Isn't he really more of a 2nd/3rd line guy in Edmonton? Personally I figure the lines will look a bit like:

Rucinsky (you can feel it coming) - Nylander-Jagr
Lundmark (until he screws up) - Holik - Balej
Murray-Messier (it's going to happen) -Ortmeyer

With Giroux and Wiseman probably pushing hardest for spots, and a fourth line probably centered by Betts. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Weller or Grenier make the team, as either could cheaply and enthusiastically provide for free the 'toughness' that Laraque would cost so much to provide. That, and Sather has a serious soft-spot for goons.
Yea but Goons that cant play. Other than Simon, what tough guy did we have that provided both toughness and a bit of scoring?? Please dont say Ms.McCarthy. This is why Sather should have pushed hard for Wiemer. I wonder what tough guys with skill are available.

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09-07-2004, 04:14 PM
  #24
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Kodiak said, "Potential? Rachunek proved himself to be a bonafide top 4 guy by earning that kind of ice time on a stacked Ottawa blueline."

he was not a top 4 defensemen on the sens, i dont even know where that came from, he was never more than a 5-6 guy on a stacked defense

there top 4 consisted of phillips, redden, leschyshyn, and of course chara

then karel started playing poorly for the sens and got dealt here for de Vries which they thought would make their defense even better

rachunek has never proved he is more than a 5-6 guy tops, now is his chance, im willing to see what he brings to the table this year, i just didnt like what i saw last year, he made too many poti-esque decisions ie bad passes thru the middle, poor turnovers, bad pinches, etc however he did use his body against opposing players which gives me some hope

i just think if we can deal him for a lw who fills a need then im for it, we can always go sign a mironov or mcgillis and go with a top four of
kasper-poti
mironov/mcgillis-tyutin

and then let kids like pock, kondratiev, and lampman fight it out for the 5-6 spots, or we could not even sign a mironov mcgillis and just see what the kids do in camp

rachunek is expendable to me and the fact that he has a movable contract is even more of a reason i see him as the 1 ranger who teams may be calling about and sather may listen

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09-07-2004, 04:37 PM
  #25
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Rachunek averaged...

almost 22 minutes per game in the 02-03 season. If that's not top 4 minutes, I'm not sure what constitutes top 4 minutes. I didn't check last season, however, when he fell out of favor - and considering they were a first round knockout last season, I'm not sure how much I trust the Sens' judgement on their assessment of Rachunek. He did average nearly 20 minutes per night over the entire season, but not sure what he averaged in his 60 games with the Sens. Further, Leschysyn averaged just under 14 minutes per night, which is third pair minutes, not top 4.

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