Yes I know hockey is more than just numbers, but as of today those two are on pace for less than 20 goals this season.
RIght now Talbot and Read are pleasant surprises and producing over expectations, so no one is really complaining about Simmonds and Voraceks' production numbers, but should they?
Couturier is producing well, but still...
We traded Carter and Richards, two experienced guys, and got back youngsters plus two somewhat experienced forwards in Voracek and Simmonds. Why arent they producing numbers, esp goals?
Is it just a matter of time and chemistry, or is something wrong?
My worry is that Talbot and Read are overproducing and may tail off, Couturier is very young and youngsters often blow hot and cold, while Jagr is old and always at risk of injury.
I think Voracek and Simmonds have advantages over those others:
> not too young, have some experience,
> not too old like Jagr,
> have some Top 6 forward experience, as opposed to total surprises (possibly ephemeral like Talbot and Read)
SO with all those advantages, why arent they producing?
Well, Simmonds wasn't acquired for his offensive production. Most people did feel he had the potential for 20 at some point, and I would argue that that's still the case, but he's really having a season on par with his previous ones.
Voracek was struggling for a bit but has been much better of late. I expect him to end up in the 20 goal range.
IMO simmonds just doesn't have enough skill with his stick to score 20 this season. He's a great athlete and hes great at what he does, just not a goal scorer.
Simmonds is great!!!! but he is a 3rd sometimes 2nd line player. We need someone else on PP, Simmonds does not have hands. Still, I like him as a player.
Hoping for Schenn to make some big strides otherwise Richards trade is going to suck.
Voracek has been playing extremely well as of late and has been putting up some solid numbers of the last stretch. Also he has been playing with some intense hustle, which makes him good in my book.
I've been happy with Voracek. I'd like him to better, but he's playing just about where I think he was expected to. Simmonds I was hoping would break out but wasn't really expecting him to. I think in the end Voracek will have a much better season that Simmonds (stats-wise) but I think that's about what should happen. Two different kinds of players.
To echo what others have said, if Simmonds puts up 20 goals (even inconsistently in his career) i'll be impressed.
We're definitely overproducing...and we need to play a better defense/less PIMS as a whole before we come back down to earth. Though Voracek potting 20 goals wouldn't surprise me.
Edit: I got hasty and re-read your OP
Last edited by decadentia: 11-20-2011 at 11:23 AM.
Well, Simmonds wasn't acquired for his offensive production. Most people did feel he had the potential for 20 at some point, and I would argue that that's still the case, but he's really having a season on par with his previous ones.
Voracek was struggling for a bit but has been much better of late. I expect him to end up in the 20 goal range.
I can't see Read continuing to be this great for the entire year, but I don't think he'll drop off too much, either. His puck control is excellent and he is making really heady plays.
I don't really see it in Simmonds, he seems fairly sloppy to me. But at times he looks like he has something great to offer.
Voracek to me is the wild card. But I have faith that he'll be a big contributor as he gets more comfortable.
I'm expecting most of our forwards to be fairly streaky. It's really only Giroux and Brière I would have counted on to produce fairly evenly over the season.
With Jagr there is the concern regarding age and having been over in Europe a few years. Hartnell is streaky, we know that. JvR hasn't found consistency yet, and until he does I'm not gonna count on it. Same goes for Voracek. Simmonds will probably never be much of a point producer. Read, Schenn, Couturier are rookies. Talbot is Talbot, enjoy it while it lasts. He'll still do his job defensively and on the pk though.
Simmonds started out great, but then he slumped pretty badly for a while. I think he's been better again the past few games though. Voracek has been pretty snake bitten, he has played really good lately though. That line with him, Read and Talbot had a couple of outstanding games.
Psh where have you been man? I've been *****ing about how this place is turning into 4chan since like 07. It gets worse every day, but meh, whatever. When they started banning certain members here it got better, but back in its hayday this place was image macro recycled meme central. It was literally almost like an old school BBS image board mixed with 5 year old 4chan jokes or something.
Voracek has been quite good after a bad start. Simmonds has been quite bad after a hot start.
I agree with this pretty close to 100% actually. Voracek has been making strides and him/Read/Talbot has been really really well the past 7 games or so.
Simmonds on the other hand, I'm not sure what happened. Maybe he just needs to pot one or drop the gloves and swing momentum into the Flyers favor.
I agree with this pretty close to 100% actually. Voracek has been making strides and him/Read/Talbot has been really really well the past 7 games or so.
Simmonds on the other hand, I'm not sure what happened. Maybe he just needs to pot one or drop the gloves and swing momentum into the Flyers favor.
Honestly, I think Simmonds is perfect trade bait for us as soon as Schenn is healthy.
We have 2 lines that look great (Harts-G-Jagr, Read-Talbot-Voracek), then Schenn should take Simmonds' spot on the 2nd line (JVR-Schenn-Briere or JVR-Briere-Schenn).
That would relegate Simmonds to the 4th line, and I just don't really love him there... feel like he would be wasted.
The Kings could really use a winger right now, so I think something around Simmonds for Voynov could be nice.
Honestly, I think Simmonds is perfect trade bait for us as soon as Schenn is healthy.
We have 2 lines that look great (Harts-G-Jagr, Read-Talbot-Voracek), then Schenn should take Simmonds' spot on the 2nd line (JVR-Schenn-Briere or JVR-Briere-Schenn).
That would relegate Simmonds to the 4th line, and I just don't really love him there... feel like he would be wasted.
The Kings could really use a winger right now, so I think something around Simmonds for Voynov could be nice.
I'm willing to say that we'll keep Simmonds til the off season, unless something drastic happens.
Also, I don't think the Kings would move Voynov for Simmonds, we'd probably have to add something. I personally wouldn't do that though.
I just don't understand what keeping Simmonds does for us...
I like having depth, but when you start having talented guys like Simmonds on your 4th line potentially, it's enough.
Especially when you could actually really use some improvement on defense.
Talbot is not a top 9 player, he has never in his career put up top 9 numbers and is playing at an unrealistic pace. Your answer is we have too many guys to fit in that 4th line/checking line role and you are way too attached to Harry Z/Rinaldo whoever. They are serviceable guys and are useful, great, but they do not bring what wayne brings.
Talbot is not a top 9 player, he has never in his career put up top 9 numbers and is playing at an unrealistic pace. Your answer is we have too many guys to fit in that 4th line/checking line role and you are way too attached to Harry Z/Rinaldo whoever. They are serviceable guys and are useful, great, but they do not bring what wayne brings.
I don't need what Wayne brings on this team though...
I'm perfectly happy w/ the following lines:
Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Schenn-Briere (or JVR-Briere-Schenn)
Read-Talbot-Voracek
Harry Z-Couturier-Rinaldo
You can say what you want about Talbot not being a top-9 forward, but has he ever been given a chance before? He has some obvious skill and more importantly, he has chemistry.
I don't want Simmonds w/ JVR and Briere... it hasn't worked... there's no chemistry. And I don't want Simmonds w/ Voracek-Read because then Read would have to play C and he's been more effective on the wing.
That leaves Simmonds on the 4th line no matter what. And I see his value as being more than that, so I'd like to explore trading him.
Sorry if you disagree. I want a 4th line that is more filled w/ guys who can check and guys who can PK. I don't want 4 semi-equal lines offensively. I want my top-3 lines + Couturier to be playing most of the minutes.
I don't need what Wayne brings on this team though...
I'm perfectly happy w/ the following lines:
Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Schenn-Briere (or JVR-Briere-Schenn)
Read-Talbot-Voracek
Harry Z-Couturier-Rinaldo
You can say what you want about Talbot not being a top-9 forward, but has he ever been given a chance before? He has some obvious skill and more importantly, he has chemistry.
I don't want Simmonds w/ JVR and Briere... it hasn't worked... there's no chemistry. And I don't want Simmonds w/ Voracek-Read because then Read would have to play C and he's been more effective on the wing.
That leaves Simmonds on the 4th line no matter what. And I see his value as being more than that, so I'd like to explore trading him.
Sorry if you disagree. I want a 4th line that is more filled w/ guys who can check and guys who can PK. I don't want 4 semi-equal lines offensively. I want my top-3 lines + Couturier to be playing most of the minutes.
Its not about rolling semi equal 4th liners. Harry Z doesn't throw huge checks and isn't expected to. He doesn't play on the PK either. He's serviceable he probably could play on the PK if needed but hes not needed to. Talbot is a great mentor for Couturier to develop his Defensive game is is a bottom 3 guy through and through. He was used in Pit in the Top 9 when injuries happened, hes not a top 9 guy. He is serviceable as a To 9 guy as a stop gap for injuries but thats about it. On top of that he's at something like 30 pct in the dot. Moving him to the 4th allows him to be in his natural position and not in a position to lose faceoffs all night
You don't want Read in the middle and that's fine. Giroux/Briere/Schenn/Couturier down the middle.
Its not about rolling semi equal 4th liners. Harry Z doesn't throw huge checks and isn't expected to. He doesn't play on the PK either. He's serviceable he probably could play on the PK if needed but hes not needed to. Talbot is a great mentor for Couturier to develop his Defensive game is is a bottom 3 guy through and through. He was used in Pit in the Top 9 when injuries happened, hes not a top 9 guy. He is serviceable as a To 9 guy as a stop gap for injuries but thats about it. On top of that he's at something like 30 pct in the dot. Moving him to the 4th allows him to be in his natural position and not in a position to lose faceoffs all night
You don't want Read in the middle and that's fine. Giroux/Briere/Schenn/Couturier down the middle.
If you go that way, I think you swap Voracek and Simmonds.
I agree I did that because he said he didn't want Simmonds on the Briere line so I could appease him. I think hes fine on that line and that all 3 JvR, Briere, and Simmonds could all afford to step up their game and as a unit could all be better. Chemistry is not instantaneous it will take time. Idk if you all recall but it took Briere almost 2 or 3 full season to find someone other then vinny prospal to play with.
