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Old
12-04-2011, 10:06 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
It's called expectations....having a 2-time MVP a President's Cup and one the better regular season records the last few years brings those...
Capitals fans are some of the worst (and best) fans of a good team I've ever seen. Maybe it has a lot to do with a good number of them not knowing much about hockey until recently, but man -- so many people I know immediately went on suicide watch after the 7th loss despite having experienced the streak last year and the emergence from it.

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12-04-2011, 10:31 PM
  #102
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Capitals fans are some of the worst (and best) fans of a good team I've ever seen. Maybe it has a lot to do with a good number of them not knowing much about hockey until recently, but man -- so many people I know immediately went on suicide watch after the 7th loss despite having experienced the streak last year and the emergence from it.
...and subsequent flame out in the playoffs. The signs were there. That's why McPhee had Dale on his quick-dial.

I wonder if some so called long-time Caps fans have spent so much time watching Caps hockey they don't know what a Stanley Cup winner looks like.

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12-04-2011, 10:48 PM
  #103
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...and subsequent flame out in the playoffs. The signs were there. That's why McPhee had Dale on his quick-dial.

I wonder if some so called long-time Caps fans have spent so much time watching Caps hockey they don't know what a Stanley Cup winner looks like.
My initial comment was more about DC area fans (not) seeing the difference between a good team and a legitimately bad one and was aimed more at pointing out fanbase over and under reaction than passing judgment on the Capitals.

Any other argument veers wildly off-topic (both of that subject and this sub-board), so I'll leave a suitable reply to you for another day on a more appropriate board.

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12-05-2011, 06:33 AM
  #104
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We as fans know how inconsistent Rex is, but it gets so damn frustrating because it's either "Good Rex" or "Bad Rex". And Rex was really bad yesterday.

I wish I could just fast forward to the draft and see what quarterback the Redskins draft.

Helu and Davis, though, that's a dangerous duo with a ton of potential. And Hankerson, when healthy, might have some potential. The foundation of the future. All they need is a proper QB, and some OL help, and the Redskins really have the potential to be a very good, young offense.

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12-05-2011, 01:40 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
...and subsequent flame out in the playoffs. The signs were there. That's why McPhee had Dale on his quick-dial.

I wonder if some so called long-time Caps fans have spent so much time watching Caps hockey they don't know what a Stanley Cup winner looks like.
I should replace Caps w Redskins and Stanley Cup with Super Bowl.

The fact that you were touting Shanahan's pedigree, and his control over the locker room and players at the beginning of the year? That he had them all believing in him and his message?

Now what?? With the loss of control, the flip flopping of QB's, and the suspension of Davis and Williams? Still think his "championship" pedigree is at work, and has the attention of the lockerroom?

I dont think Shanahan is the problem, but I also dont piss and moan all over the Caps either. All seems to me to be a bit hypocritical.

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12-05-2011, 01:47 PM
  #106
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I should replace Caps w Redskins and Stanley Cup with Super Bowl.

The fact that you were touting Shanahan's pedigree, and his control over the locker room and players at the beginning of the year? That he had them all believing in him and his message?

Now what?? With the loss of control, the flip flopping of QB's, and the suspension of Davis and Williams? Still think his "championship" pedigree is at work, and has the attention of the lockerroom?

I dont think Shanahan is the problem, but I also dont piss and moan all over the Caps either. All seems to me to be a bit hypocritical.
The Redskins aren't underachieving; they're losing because of lack of talent. The Caps are underachieving because of a lack of character.

Big difference.

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12-05-2011, 02:30 PM
  #107
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The Redskins aren't underachieving; they're losing because of lack of talent. The Caps are underachieving because of a lack of character.

Big difference.
I dont agree. Williams and Davis got a 3rd strike, knowing the issues it would create. That speaks of character, doesnt it? D'Angelo Hall is called Me'Angelo for a reason, isnt he? Landry has major issues as well.

The entire Redskins team has character issues, as well as talent issues. Not a big difference, at all.

Leadership is supposed to fix these things, at least that was your claim about the Caps, correct? Caps weren't going anywhere because you didn't believe in Boudreau and McPhee's ability to win the big one (as they havent). Get new leaders for the Caps, and the team would be good, and you'd stop complaining.

So you touted Shanahan, and Allen. They "know how" to build winners. And still the Skins locker room, and 2 of their top players are thumbing their noses at the organization.

I dont have an ax to grind with your Ero...but cant you see the hypocrisy of your views surounding this?


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12-05-2011, 02:30 PM
  #108
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As of right now we have the 4th pick in the draft. The Rams and Vikings pick ahead of us. The Rams have Seahawks, Bengals, Steelers and 49ers left. Vikings have Lions, Saints, Redskins, Bears left. If STL can win one more game we will move into the third pick. If MIN can win two we will move into the second pick. Personally I think we are in a good position with those two in front of us. I can't see STL wasting a pick on a QB. Ponder has been playing well so I don't think they take a QB either. In that position we would have our choice between Griffin and Barkley. Although knowing us we will win one more meaningless game like last year and screw ourselves further. The Jacksonville win last year cost us six draft slots. If we would have lost that game we would have picked 4th not 10th.

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12-05-2011, 02:37 PM
  #109
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If Barkley doesn't declare, I'll be beyond pissed. Landry Jones more than likely returns after a dreadful year, and I'm not sold on RGIII, though you may have no choice if Barkley returns.

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12-05-2011, 02:46 PM
  #110
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If one of the highly regarded QBs fall to us, take him. If not, don't trade up to get one. That fact is we are severely lacking in talent. Did anyone check out last night's Packers/Giants game? Did you guys see what Hakeem Nicks and Jordy Nelson were doing for their respective QBs? We do not have anyone of that caliber. We don't have the Oline that lets our QB sit back and make the necessary throws. Pick whoever is available at our draft position. Rodgers came into a team that was loaded with talent. Big Ben had the same thing happen to him. Joe Flacco as well. We need a good QB, no doubt. But picking a QB first isn't the only way to build.

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12-05-2011, 02:50 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by tmljeh19 View Post
As of right now we have the 4th pick in the draft. The Rams and Vikings pick ahead of us. The Rams have Seahawks, Bengals, Steelers and 49ers left. Vikings have Lions, Saints, Redskins, Bears left. If STL can win one more game we will move into the third pick. If MIN can win two we will move into the second pick. Personally I think we are in a good position with those two in front of us. I can't see STL wasting a pick on a QB. Ponder has been playing well so I don't think they take a QB either. In that position we would have our choice between Griffin and Barkley. Although knowing us we will win one more meaningless game like last year and screw ourselves further. The Jacksonville win last year cost us six draft slots. If we would have lost that game we would have picked 4th not 10th.
The problem that everyone keeps ignoring is that this team needs a lot more than just a QB. Their talent level has been consistently overrated all season, especially on the defense which despite the hype, keeps giving up points and drives. If the defense is "fixed" then I'd hate to see when it's broken. Add in an offense that's an absolute joke, and you have a train wreck for years. The head coach swore by his rep that Grossman (and Beck) could play, but that's been a colossal misfire to say the least. What does Grossman have now, 18 turnovers in 9 starts? Great call.

Then we have two guys who are supposed to be part of the core of the team going forward, getting busted for drugs. Nice to see these clowns have their minds on their jobs and teammates.

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12-05-2011, 02:56 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
If one of the highly regarded QBs fall to us, take him. If not, don't trade up to get one. That fact is we are severely lacking in talent. Did anyone check out last night's Packers/Giants game? Did you guys see what Hakeem Nicks and Jordy Nelson were doing for their respective QBs? We do not have anyone of that caliber. We don't have the Oline that lets our QB sit back and make the necessary throws. Pick whoever is available at our draft position. Rodgers came into a team that was loaded with talent. Big Ben had the same thing happen to him. Joe Flacco as well. We need a good QB, no doubt. But picking a QB first isn't the only way to build.
It starts with the QB. We need to draft one, eitehr 1st or 2nd round. If we dont like Griffin/Barkley (or cant draft them for various reasons), we need one in rd 2. Without a "plan" for QB, the rest of this doesnt matter.

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12-05-2011, 03:01 PM
  #113
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Disagree. It's a QB driven league and assuming the Skins have a top 5 pick and Luck, Barkley , and RGIII all declare, you do what it takes to get one of them. This team can't survive with Grossman and with competent QB play they could win more games. Not to mention QB is the most pressing need.

On Rodgers, his ball placement was incredible. Without that the WRs had no chance.

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12-05-2011, 03:03 PM
  #114
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The problem that everyone keeps ignoring is that this team needs a lot more than just a QB. Their talent level has been consistently overrated all season, especially on the defense which despite the hype, keeps giving up points and drives. If the defense is "fixed" then I'd hate to see when it's broken. Add in an offense that's an absolute joke, and you have a train wreck for years. The head coach swore by his rep that Grossman (and Beck) could play, but that's been a colossal misfire to say the least. What does Grossman have now, 18 turnovers in 9 starts? Great call.

Then we have two guys who are supposed to be part of the core of the team going forward, getting busted for drugs. Nice to see these clowns have their minds on their jobs and teammates.
It's a problem, but its something that has taken years to create. Vinny torpedoed this team. Shanahan's arrogance notwithstanding, I think he (and Allen) are going in the right direction.

But its going to take a while to fix. Akin to how long it took the Lions to get fixed post Matt Millen. I think we are 2 years into a 5yr overhaul.

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12-05-2011, 03:20 PM
  #115
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If he is available in the 2nd or 3rd, I want Monte Ball on this team. I don't want Luck, just not sold on him (but these words can come back to bite me, for sure)

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12-05-2011, 03:22 PM
  #116
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It's a problem, but its something that has taken years to create. Vinny torpedoed this team. Shanahan's arrogance notwithstanding, I think he (and Allen) are going in the right direction.

But its going to take a while to fix. Akin to how long it took the Lions to get fixed post Matt Millen. I think we are 2 years into a 5yr overhaul.
There's no guarantee anything is going to get fixed. This franchise is way past the "it's going to get better, you'll see" point. They need to prove it. I've said this before, I'd have more confidence in Shanahan if he didn't already botch the QB situation multiple times. Then you throw in there a couple guys that are supposed to be part of the new core going forward that get busted for substance abuse. It's all negative.

I'm not convinced yet on the Lions. They are a bunch of thugs with a jerk of a coach who have stumbled badly after a good start. You've also got teams like the Niners that turned around almost overnight.

No way in heck does Snyder sit still for a 5-year overhaul. Not with his already apathetic fan base selling their tickets by the thousands for enemy fans to pick up. I'm sure he loves hearing JETS chants or Cowboys or Eagles chants in his own stadium every week. The problem now is, what does he do? This is a mess.

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12-05-2011, 03:26 PM
  #117
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So let me get this right... for years the Redskins fan base said Dan Snyder meddles with this team too much and that he needs to take a backseat, and now the fans want to know what Dan Snyder is going to do to improve this team?

Dan is going to give Shanny 5 years, there is no doubt in my mind. And he needs all 5 years to fix the disaster Vinny left this franchise in. Vinny managed this team just as bad as Matt Millen did in Detroit. We're two years away from competing, IMO. It is obvious we lack talent just watching other teams play.

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12-05-2011, 03:40 PM
  #118
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Now that i think about it. I don't think i've seen RG3 take a snap under center this year.

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12-05-2011, 03:54 PM
  #119
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So let me get this right... for years the Redskins fan base said Dan Snyder meddles with this team too much and that he needs to take a backseat, and now the fans want to know what Dan Snyder is going to do to improve this team?

Dan is going to give Shanny 5 years, there is no doubt in my mind. And he needs all 5 years to fix the disaster Vinny left this franchise in. Vinny managed this team just as bad as Matt Millen did in Detroit. We're two years away from competing, IMO. It is obvious we lack talent just watching other teams play.
That's the problem isn't it? Dan will probably give Shanahan his years because he doesn't want to pay 21 million or whatever for another coach who's gone. So yeah we're probably stuck with him.

As for how much time he needs, well part of that long recovery time is because of him. Did Vinny give up a 2nd round pick for a washed up QB? Did Vinny make the call and stake his rep that Rex & Beck could play? No. So far, Shanahan's been part of the problem, not the solution. His (or his son's) game plans have been frustratingly inconsistent and his players, particularly after the drug revelations, clearly don't have their heads on right. If two Caps had been busted for drug use, I'm sure the anti-BB crowd would be screaming that it was another example of BB's ineptitude.

I'm tired of hearing it's going to get better. At some point they need to show something. Boswell a couple weeks ago called this a shattered franchise. Reid today piled on that they have a long, long way to go. These are not exaggerations.

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12-05-2011, 04:06 PM
  #120
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That's the problem isn't it? Dan will probably give Shanahan his years because he doesn't want to pay 21 million or whatever for another coach who's gone. So yeah we're probably stuck with him.
Changing coaches every other year is not the way to build a team or a franchise. At the very least give Shanny 3 full years and evaluate the team at the end of the 3rd year. Does that sound fair to you? Bringing in a new coach means bringing in a new system. A new system will possibly require players that fit that system. That will only set this franchise back.

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As for how much time he needs, well part of that long recovery time is because of him. Did Vinny give up a 2nd round pick for a washed up QB? Did Vinny make the call and stake his rep that Rex & Beck could play? No. So far, Shanahan's been part of the problem, not the solution. His (or his son's) game plans have been frustratingly inconsistent and his players, particularly after the drug revelations, clearly don't have their heads on right. If two Caps had been busted for drug use, I'm sure the anti-BB crowd would be screaming that it was another example of BB's ineptitude.
Yeah he made a mistake with McNabb, no doubt about that. But this is not a mistake like Haynesworth was. MacNabb was seen as a top tier QB by just about everyone. Someone who had had years of success. He was a professional on and off the field. I think just about everyone regarded this as a good trade for Redskins at the time. For one reason or the other he didn't work out (and it looks like right now he's got nothing left in the tank). At the very least Shanny tried to make the best out of the situation by trading him and getting a couple of draft picks. And as for Shanny saying we can win with Rex or Beck, I never saw that as anything more than coach speak. Rex gets crapped on by the media (and rightfully so, he's a subpar QB) and Beck was an unknown. He probably showing confidence in them so that they would in return show confidence in themselves.

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I'm tired of hearing it's going to get better. At some point they need to show something. Boswell a couple weeks ago called this a shattered franchise. Reid today piled on that they have a long, long way to go. These are not exaggerations.
If you're watching the games, the players are playing hard. To me it is obvious that the team is lacking talent. So until we reload talent, we aren't going to see a competitive team. Its going to take another couple of years, IMO. That is the situation with the franchise, and I've accepted it. I'm just going to sit back and watch w/o expectations for now. I just hope some of our young guys can keep us entertained.

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12-05-2011, 04:45 PM
  #121
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The Redskins aren't underachieving; they're losing because of lack of talent. The Caps are underachieving because of a lack of character.

Big difference.
The Redskins are definitely underachieving. Does it mean that they'd be contenders if they were playing at the level they should? Probably not, but when you look at some of the yard totals that the Redskins put up vs the amount of points they've scored, it's pretty obvious that they've underachieved on some level.

The question becomes, though, that if they are getting the ball up the field and having problems in the redzone -- is that on the players or the playcallers?

I think it's pretty telling that you get in the redzone for your opening drive on the back of a running back, get your touchdown on the back of a running back...and then try to use a QB who is notoriously bad in the redzone on your next redzone visit instead of running the ball. A visit where he promptly threatens to get picked three times .... in two throws.

At some point, the management by the coaches has to be called into question. Shanahan, today, said that the 'flub' kick from Gano was a coaching decision.

A coaching.

Decision.

Think about that. Your kicking game is the worst in the league, your kicker probably wouldn't get a job on any other team on the league and in a critical point in the game, you're asking that unit to finesse the ball to the opposition.

Instead of trusting the running game, which had been doing fairly well before a couple of 1 yard gains or no gains, you let Rex Grossman throw 40+ passes when the ball's been sailing on him all day. It's ridiculous.

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12-05-2011, 04:55 PM
  #122
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There's no guarantee anything is going to get fixed. This franchise is way past the "it's going to get better, you'll see" point. They need to prove it. I've said this before, I'd have more confidence in Shanahan if he didn't already botch the QB situation multiple times. Then you throw in there a couple guys that are supposed to be part of the new core going forward that get busted for substance abuse. It's all negative.

I'm not convinced yet on the Lions. They are a bunch of thugs with a jerk of a coach who have stumbled badly after a good start. You've also got teams like the Niners that turned around almost overnight.

No way in heck does Snyder sit still for a 5-year overhaul. Not with his already apathetic fan base selling their tickets by the thousands for enemy fans to pick up. I'm sure he loves hearing JETS chants or Cowboys or Eagles chants in his own stadium every week. The problem now is, what does he do? This is a mess.
so what is your plan? Fire/Hire another coach/GM tandem?

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12-05-2011, 05:01 PM
  #123
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so what is your plan? Fire/Hire another coach/GM tandem?
I think someone (Danny) steps in and tells the coaches to stop over-coaching. You don't make things complicated when things are going badly, you make them simple.

Look at the Tebow situation.

The most simple and effective strategy in football is to go with what works until it stops working.

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12-06-2011, 10:23 AM
  #124
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We cannot go through another year of Grossman / Beck. The Redskins have to draft a quarterback in the upcoming draft.

The nightmare for me is if RG3 and Barkley stay in college. Then the Redskins are in trouble. In that situation, I would then draft some offensive talent and then see what serviceable quarterback is still available in future rounds (Tannehill, Moore, even Keenum )

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12-06-2011, 10:47 AM
  #125
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