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Injury Talk 2.0: Markov out 3+ weeks (minor surgery) Campoli & Spacek practicing

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Old
12-02-2011, 06:33 PM
  #726
Evil Ted
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Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
God this is becoming worse than the crosby watch. Wish the organization would just keep us updated instead of letting all these different media outlets speculate.
I think Crosbys recovery has been much smoother then Markovs. By the sounds of things at this point things have gotten complicated.

And even more amazing in Crosbys case the team was performing at a top level without him in the lineup, contrast that with the habs they have struggled on the pp this year and thats exactly what Markov used to bring to this team, they have lost a ton of close games where he would be a huge boost.

To me I just am starting to get a bad feeling about this whole situation how its played out, it appeared Markov was getting close they were saying he was good in practice then after this trip out west its almost sounding like hes regressed.

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12-02-2011, 06:35 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by TheWhiteIdea View Post
Tiresome. Never should have been resigned to a multiple year deal
Nothing wrong with signing him. At worst you put him on the LTIR, and that only affect Molson.

The mistake was building a defense that expected him to come back. Should have made moves/signings to have an adequate top 6 without him. Him coming back would then just be a bonus that puts the D over the top, and then if need be we could move from a position of strength.

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12-02-2011, 06:45 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
Nothing wrong with signing him. At worst you put him on the LTIR, and that only affect Molson.

The mistake was building a defense that expected him to come back. Should have made moves/signings to have an adequate top 6 without him. Him coming back would then just be a
bonus that puts the D over the top,
and then if need be we could move
from a position of
strength.
My thoughts exactly.

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Old
12-02-2011, 06:53 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
Nothing wrong with signing him. At worst you put him on the LTIR, and that only affect Molson.

The mistake was building a defense that expected him to come back. Should have made moves/signings to have an adequate top 6 without him. Him coming back would then just be a bonus that puts the D over the top, and then if need be we could move from a position of strength.
I've been saying that since Hamrlik's deal with Washington.

You gotta admit though, the team's record this season with Spacek in the lineup is pretty good. I think no one expected the Habs to also miss Spacek and Campoli to boot, and with how they've done with him in the lineup, I'll give a pass to PG for now and see how it'll pan out, because both Spacek and Campoli are days away from coming back now. This will already help tremendously. No defense based teams could survive with 2 sophomores and 3 rookies as part of their regular 7 Ds.

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12-02-2011, 07:32 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I've been saying that since Hamrlik's deal with Washington.

You gotta admit though, the team's record this season with Spacek in the lineup is pretty good. I think no one expected the Habs to also miss Spacek and Campoli to boot, and with how they've done with him in the lineup, I'll give a pass to PG for now and see how it'll pan out, because both Spacek and Campoli are days away from coming back now. This will already help tremendously. No defense based teams could survive with 2 sophomores and 3 rookies as part of their regular 7 Ds.
I dont know. Spacek has a history of injuries. He has always been know as pretty brittle.

Here is my problem tho, even with those guys healthy neither one is a top 4 defenseman. Montreal let two of theirs walk in the off season and didnt replace any of them. They put everything on Markov returning. Even Markov returning meant they were down one top four from last year.

My other issue, we have Campoli at 1.75,, and brought Gill back at 2.25. So thats 4 million in defenseman. If Montreal couldnt find a way to free up the 1.5 difference, you have to question their management. Heck they went out and got a more expensive backup to do exactly what Auld did last year.

Call me crazy but i would have preferred Wiz over having those three. Or possibly someone else. I honestly cant remember who else was available but Wiz thrived in Montreal's PP system and it would have gave Montreal good security in case we ran into this Markov situation.

Best case we were Markov, Wiz, Subban, Gorges, Emelin, Spacek, and Diaz.

Worst case at least we have Wiz who with Subban could log huge minutes but instead Montreal went with stop gaps like Gill and Campoli

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Old
12-02-2011, 07:41 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Habitant#1 View Post
Nothing wrong with signing him. At worst you put him on the LTIR, and that only affect Molson.

The mistake was building a defense that expected him to come back. Should have made moves/signings to have an adequate top 6 without him. Him coming back would then just be a bonus that puts the D over the top, and then if need be we could move from a position of strength.
Agree 100%. I've given the organization a huge pass on so many things that were beyond their control. The decision surrounding Markov was NOT beyond their control, for the reasons you mentioned. Yes, of course no one can predict injury setbacks, but everyone can predict the realistic possibility of setbacks. The fact that they ignored this risk and forged ahead blindly was a huge gaffe. They bet the entire defensive unit on a 100% healthy Markov and, it seemed, a 100% NHL-ready Emelin, which shows me they were... um... russian things along too quickly. Too much baseless optimism and too few backup plans.

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12-02-2011, 07:53 PM
  #732
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[QUOTE=Lshap;40330461]Agree 100%. I've given the organization a huge pass on so many things that were beyond their control. The decision surrounding Markov was NOT beyond their control, for the reasons you mentioned. Yes, of course no one can predict injury setbacks, but everyone can predict the realistic possibility of setbacks. The fact that they ignored this risk and forged ahead blindly was a huge gaffe. They bet the entire defensive unit on a 100% healthy Markov and, it seemed, a 100% NHL-ready Emelin, which shows me they were... um... russian things along too quickly. Too much baseless optimism and too few backup plans.[/

the problem has not been the D-
yes the Powerplay could use Markov- but he hasn't played much for 2 years- should have kept wiz
the young D. Has looked better than the old version last season- they are quicker get to the puck faster than old players

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:07 PM
  #733
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the problem has not been the D-
yes the Powerplay could use Markov- but he hasn't played much for 2 years- should have kept wiz
the young D. Has looked better than the old version last season- they are quicker get to the puck faster than old players
Respectfully disagree. Our rookie defense has certainly made huge leaps forward. Their pure defense is solid and most have a bright future. However, in the immediate present, they're still a step behind and a second late when it comes to forechecking, passing and shooting. Our problems, IMO, can be directly traced to a tentative, inexperienced defense corps who simply aren't aggressive or accurate enough to backstop a winning team. Yet.

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:44 PM
  #734
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Pourquoi le #CH ne dit rien au sujet de #Markov? @GagnonFrancois: "Si c'est parce qu'ils ne savent pas ce qui ce passe, c'est pire encore."
http://twitter.com/#!/antichambre/st...95919073624064

My God, it's getting so ridiculous..

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:54 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
http://twitter.com/#!/antichambre/st...95919073624064

My God, it's getting so ridiculous..
It's like Crosby...friggen leave the guy alone and he'll play when he is 100%.

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:28 PM
  #736
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Remember, he couldn't pivot to the right, and guys would blow by him, and he would fall down, and boom in the net, or a great save by Hackett...Moog, etc.
Yup. And, he earned the nickname Breeze-by because of it. lol

This panic over Markov is ridiculous. Martin said that Markov wouldn't play on this California trip & frankly, I wasn't expecting him to play before mid-December. The Anaheim guys said Dec. 13 vs Isles. I don't know where they got that info, but it sounds about right to me.

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:46 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
No defense based teams could survive with 2 sophomores and 3 rookies as part of their regular 7 Ds.
Which had to mean that you were totally against the Habs decision, prior to September 25th, to go with the D's they were going with. 'Cause aside from Spacek, it was clear that we would be waiting for Markov. And it was the plan to start the year with Subban-Gorges-Spacek-Gill-Diaz-Emelin and Weber. That was the plan. And the Campoli acquisition was solely based on the dissapointing preseasons of the Diaz-Emelin-Weber trio.

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:49 PM
  #738
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Wiz would have looked really good in a Hab jersey this year..
Not at $5,5m over 6 years he wouldn't. Columbus will regret giving him that contract if they're not already. He isn't a first pairing defenseman. Isles tried that & he was awful. Here he was a #4 & was solid in that role. Bluejackets have him as part of their first pairing again & again he is awful.

Habs have some young D coming up through their system. If Wiz wanted a 3 year contract then fine sign him, but 6 years no way. Habs D is in transition. They wanted to get younger & faster & they did. I understand completely why the Habs signed Markov.

It's short term with high risk but also the potential for high reward. His contract comes off the books at the same time that Cammy, Gio & Gomez's does. And around that time we should be graduating some of our young D men.

If even one of Campoli or Spacek had stayed healthy this wouldn't be an issue, but they didn't so it is.

I actually think Spacek will probably make it back before Markov since he is practicing with the team. Campoli has missed a lot of time so I think it's going to be another couple of weeks for him.

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12-02-2011, 09:53 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
http://twitter.com/#!/antichambre/st...95919073624064

My God, it's getting so ridiculous..
It's becoming a huge distraction now... I can't wait for it to end.

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:59 PM
  #740
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It's becoming a huge distraction now... I can't wait for it to end.
It's the media BS. Martin said Markov has the green light to come back when he is ready...RDS went ******* saying he was back Wednesday, high school paper calibre journalism.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:15 PM
  #741
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Not at $5,5m over 6 years he wouldn't. Columbus will regret giving him that contract if they're not already. He isn't a first pairing defenseman. Isles tried that & he was awful. Here he was a #4 & was solid in that role. Bluejackets have him as part of their first pairing again & again he is awful.
Wiz was NOT USED AS #4 here. Thats beyond laughable. He was playing upwards of 25 minutes a nite in Montreal. He topped off a nite at 30 minutes.

That is not number 4 minutes. That is top defenseman minutes.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:20 PM
  #742
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Wiz was NOT USED AS #4 here. Thats beyond laughable. He was playing upwards of 25 minutes a nite in Montreal. He topped off a nite at 30 minutes.

That is not number 4 minutes. That is top defenseman minutes.
He played a ton of PP minutes. 5 on 5 he was used as a #3-4.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:23 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
http://twitter.com/#!/antichambre/st...95919073624064

My God, it's getting so ridiculous..
If what we heard yesterday of him not being able to pivot to one side is correct, i don't expect to see him back this year, and maybe a possibility of retiring .This guy has had alot of leg surgery in last while , it take's a toll.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:27 PM
  #744
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He played a ton of PP minutes. 5 on 5 he was used as a #3-4.
Wiz averaged Montreals second highest even strength time amongst defenseman only behind Hammer by only 18 seconds. Likely would have take more from Hammer if he played the whole year in Montreal.

Again, thats not being used as a 3-4 defenseman. Thats a guy a coach isnt worrying about who he is being matched up against.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:32 PM
  #745
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My calculation was yearly cap hit of injured Habs vs. yearly cap floor; I could divide both numbers by 1/3rd, but the conclusion would be the same.

The idea being, the roster the Habs have iced on most nights would not meet the cap floor if it was their permanent roster.
If the team we played against San Jose was our regular team our cap hit would be around $43.3 m. It was even lower when AK was out & Patches was playing. I know some posters have written something along the lines of: I can't believe we're paying $65m for this ****.
In reality, the team on the ice is below $45m & has been for awhile.

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Originally Posted by PKarey Plekoretty View Post
This probably could have been said before, but does anyone else feel like Habs managment/ownership were lied to about Markov's condition when they decided to lock into roughly 17M over the next 3 seasons?

I have NO idea why they would have done this if there was even a HINT that he wouldn't be ready to go at season start, much less not ready by Xmas

Honestly, at this point I wouldnt be shocked if he doesn't suit up all season. I could totally see him coming back, playing 3 games, and then have his knee start to swell again and spend the rest of the year in the press box collecting his millions
I'm pretty sure the Habs would've been keeping track of his rehabilitation & would've required Dr. Mulder to inspect the knee before signing him to that contract. However, if the Habs believe they were not properly informed, or were lied to they could always complain that Markov did not bargain fairly & try to have the NHL rule his contract invalid. I have no idea what the legalities of that would be.




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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Agree 100%. I've given the organization a huge pass on so many things that were beyond their control. The decision surrounding Markov was NOT beyond their control, for the reasons you mentioned. Yes, of course no one can predict injury setbacks, but everyone can predict the realistic possibility of setbacks. The fact that they ignored this risk and forged ahead blindly was a huge gaffe. They bet the entire defensive unit on a 100% healthy Markov and, it seemed, a 100% NHL-ready Emelin, which shows me they were... um... russian things along too quickly. Too much baseless optimism and too few backup plans.
*groan* lol

I agree that the Habs should've gone into this season with the idea that Markov may not play & should've signed or traded for a defenceman. They finally did with Campoli, but then he got hurt. Campoli's injury has screwed us more than Markov's.

I also think the Habs thought one of Diaz, Emelin or Weber would emerge and play better than they've actually been playing. The fact that all of them have been equally inconsistent has hurt the D too.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:35 PM
  #746
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Wiz averaged Montreals second highest even strength time amongst defenseman only behind Hammer by only 18 seconds. Likely would have take more from Hammer if he played the whole year in Montreal.

Again, thats not being used as a 3-4 defenseman. Thats a guy a coach isnt worrying about who he is being matched up against.
PK and Gill played the big shutdown minutes. I'm sure PK's minutes after Jan 1st were #1 or 2.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:36 PM
  #747
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Wiz averaged Montreals second highest even strength time amongst defenseman only behind Hammer by only 18 seconds. Likely would have take more from Hammer if he played the whole year in Montreal.

Again, thats not being used as a 3-4 defenseman. Thats a guy a coach isnt worrying about who he is being matched up against
.
Funnily enough, the same guy you say isn't a top 4 Dmen, was the only one playing more than Wiz on average.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:43 PM
  #748
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It's the media BS. Martin said Markov has the green light to come back when he is ready...RDS went ******* saying he was back Wednesday, high school paper calibre journalism.
Why are you blaming the media? Actually, I find the media to be pretty soft regarding what's happening with Markov. In the old days, there would have been much more coverage over the Markov debacle (it is a debacle any which way you look at it).

Even his agent is pissed at the way the Habs have been handling the PR situation. It's leaving a lot of people speculating. Truth of the matter is: it makes the organisation look bad in every sense of the way. And it's not only the media. don Meehan is not easily pissed. And he is now. Meehan used to be a Habs ally back in the Serge Savard days. Today, he thinks this organisation is more of a joke than anything else. And I don't blame him.

Why the secrecy? Why ? Because the guy is allowed to have his breaks from public life? Nope. He is paid big money to face public life. That's a fact. And those who pay him, Le Club de hockey Canadien inc., are financed by ticket holders who want to know. Just like shareholders.

It's looking more and more like a fiasco. He joins the guys in California, practices with them. Supposed to play in Anaheim. Doesn't. In fact, is ordered not to skate for another 5 days, according to plenty of sources. Why? You ask me, not a good sign. Means there is swelling. Means that it's still not healed. After nearly a year. Means the guy is closer to retirement than he is from a solid comeback.

Media is pretty soft on the issue. I find the Montreal media to be VERRRRRY soft with this team this season. I've seen much worse over the last 10 seasons. Stop blaming the media and blame this organisation. Pierre Gauthier was a ghost in Ottawa and hasn't changed his style in Montreal. He's just non-existant.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:47 PM
  #749
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If what we heard yesterday of him not being able to pivot to one side is correct, i don't expect to see him back this year, and maybe a possibility of retiring .This guy has had alot of leg surgery in last while , it take's a toll.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:48 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Wiz was NOT USED AS #4 here. Thats beyond laughable. He was playing upwards of 25 minutes a nite in Montreal. He topped off a nite at 30 minutes.

That is not number 4 minutes. That is top defenseman minutes.
It's a 60 minute game. If your first pairing plays 25 minutes & the second pair plays 25 minutes, the bottom pairing still has 10 minutes to play. It's not about time. It's about match-ups. A quality top 4 defenceman is going to play in and around 25 minutes especially if the coach shortens the bench.

Gill - Subban was our number one defense pairing after Gorges went down last year & also in the play-offs. Hamerlik - Wiz was the second pairing. Wiz played well for us, I liked him a lot, but not at what Columbus signed him for. I liked Hamerlik but not at what Washington signed him for either. In a cap world, you have to plan not just for today but for the future. We have to sign Subban, Gorges & Price this summer. We have to sign Patches the summer after that. We have commitments to Cammy, Gomez, Gionta. Wiz at $5,5m for 6 years is not a realistic contract.

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