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Injury Talk 2.0: Markov out 3+ weeks (minor surgery) Campoli & Spacek practicing

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Old
11-22-2011, 08:33 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Wiz only scored once, that's the most important stat considering he's paid for that booming shot.
Playing on such a crappy team doesn't help though, but I didn't even want him re-signed at a decent price, so at his current salary, it's not even a discussion.
Except Wiz wasn't here to score goals either (although he did score some and is capable), his true value was QB'ing the PP and you can bet your bottom dollar that our PP would be amongst the best with him and Subban playing back there.

Is he worth the price tag? Probably not. Is he as good as Markov? Not pre-injury, not by a mile. We'll see where the future takes us. I have a good feeling about Markov being effective when he comes back, but it's early to say we made the right call. There is also the lingering question as to whether we can make the PP work without a left-handed bomb on the point for Markov to setup, where as Subban-Wisniewski was a proven commodity.

I actually think the team could have been aggressive in approaching both players (think bye-bye Gomez, or leaving Gill off the table and finding Spacek a home on a team needing cap-relief). I'd rather build the team with very offensive minded D-men (let's not forget Markov & Subban are no slouches defensively) and let guys like Desharnais and Eller compete for the 2nd line spot, which ironicly they are doing now anyways...

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11-22-2011, 09:05 PM
  #127
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Gill is cleared to play



Yikes

Oh yeah, and St-Denis will bite the dust



DOuble Yikes

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11-22-2011, 09:23 PM
  #128
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any word on AK? is he due back pre or post xmas?

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11-22-2011, 09:26 PM
  #129
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Gill is cleared to play



Yikes

Oh yeah, and St-Denis will bite the dust



DOuble Yikes
I prefer Gill back either way. St-Denis was ok but with the youth of Subban, Emelin, and Diaz, i prefer the vet

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Old
11-22-2011, 10:51 PM
  #130
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Good thing Markov gets to have light contact maybe his knee will get re injured before the real things starts lol.

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11-22-2011, 10:59 PM
  #131
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Just turned on the TV at Le Match (I never do). What's up with those analysts ? They think St-Denis will be the next Robidas... but Robidas is a talented undersized puck moving defensemen that can handle the powerplay while St-Denis is an average #7 warm body with 2 NHL games under his belt.

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11-22-2011, 11:02 PM
  #132
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The people complaining about Markov are the ones that forgot how it was to have him in the lineup again.

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Old
11-22-2011, 11:05 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
Just turned on the TV at Le Match (I never do). What's up with those analysts ? They think St-Denis will be the next Robidas... but Robidas is a talented undersized puck moving defensemen that can handle the powerplay while St-Denis is an average #7 warm body with 2 NHL games under his belt.
That's why I'm not watching any French sport media anymore. Every Quebecois for them is the Next Big Thing, while Europeans and whatnot are busts with no future.

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11-22-2011, 11:23 PM
  #134
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That's why I'm not watching any French sport media anymore. Every Quebecois for them is the Next Big Thing, while Europeans and whatnot are busts with no future.
It's like if they were saying that O'Byrne will be the next Rafalski ! Both are Americans, like both Robidas and St-Denis are Quebecers... it makes so much sense... I guess it's what happens when you give too much airtime to Rock Voisine and George Laraque. Why rejoice at the return of Markov or to an extent Gill when you know they will STEAL St-Denis' place in the line-up !

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11-22-2011, 11:30 PM
  #135
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Pretty sure last time Markov played a full season we finished 1st in our conference, anyway a healthy Markov is the difference between finishing 9th this seaon in our conference to finishing 5th. my opinion

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11-23-2011, 12:36 AM
  #136
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Switch Eller and DD
exactly.

eller on wing is very ****ing . he's just not good - scratch that - not even decent on wings. he looks completely lost there. desharnais on the other hand, has proven he can do better on wing than eller. small sample size i know, but desharnais looked much more comfortable than eller on wing

if given the choice, i'd put eller at center and push desharnais to wing until someone gets injured.

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11-23-2011, 12:47 AM
  #137
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just a thought and somebody shoot me down if that's never been done before but, what would be the harm in dressing markov as a 7th d-man for last half of the coming trip and only playing him on the powerplay?

seems like a good way to slowly bring him back up to speed while at the same time saving plekanec from his misery no?

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11-23-2011, 12:52 AM
  #138
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any word on AK? is he due back pre or post xmas?
No idea of a timeframe (and still haven't heard anything verified about his injury) but this TSN report says he (and Campoli) are expected to be out a while longer

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Old
11-23-2011, 01:38 AM
  #139
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The habs are offering a show. If you are not satisfied, don't come back. You are paying to see a hockey game. you are not paying your ticket to see Markov. Its not written on your ticket.

he also went to florida for the beaches?
Its the management who gave him the money. So he fooled the doctors also and the MRI?
How did he get injured the first time? major skate slash by Carey Price. 2nd time, injured in the playoffs by Matt Cooke
3rd time by Eric Staal

''Habs are offering a show'': Josh Gorges won't tell you ''we're offering a show, don't come back if you don't like it'', instead Gorges will say ''our fans deserve better than this'' (when our Habs lose many in a row). It's a religion, it's a lifestyle, it's our pride...it's way more than just ''offering a show''. Ice Capades, Harlem Globetrotters are shows, not our Habs. And if I'm not satisfied with waiting for Markov (season after season) I'll voice my opinion and I won't go away (my right as a loyal Hab fan). I've followed our Habs for a long long time and I've been VERY patient since 1993 (last Cup), and also remember a bit from our 1986 Cup and '89 Cup Finals, do you? And I'm positive towards pretty much every Hab player (incl. Gomez), but if there's something I can't accept it's a player who is constantly injured and can't even give a discount which makes me think he's not here for a Cup, he's here for his paychecks (until he can prove me wrong I'll continue believing this).

Markov's injuries....: you also forgot that Grabovski
(165-170lbs) gave Markov a light check (ultra light everyday bodycheck) and Markov went down like a novice player. Maybe you conveniently forgot about that one?!

Anyways...I'm glad Markov is cleared for contact...all I'm saying is I'm fed up of the waiting for this always-so-unpleasant/depressing/negative-in-interviews-always-injured dman-who couldn't-give-a-discount-to-our-Habs, now we're facing a possible UFA-Gorges. Without Gorges+ Subban we're nothing.

Now it's all about how long can Markov stay healthy (as usual)...will Markov be injured by our own players in practice? will he play 10 games only? 20? 30? (and miss the playoffs...again?). If we have to do this again next year I'd rather he show some honor and retire or accept a trade (this way we can move on with another dman, but I have a feeling Markov will suck every penny out of the $5,75mil THREE YEAR contract even if it means only playing 20-30 games/season and missing playoffs).


Would be great (for once) to hear Markov say in interview ''I'm so excited! Can't wait to play for the Habs again and join my teammates...it's been forever since I helped my Habs, I'm hungry to play'' (instead all we get is a miserable/depressing face that barely is capable of expressing himself with ''next question, next question'' when addressing a fair/polite/normal question on time-frame).

Go Markov Go (stay healthy for once and there's nothing wrong with trying to avoid bodychecks a la Gorges/Subban...don't be a sitting duck out there... my right to remain skeptical about his extra fragile body).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-23-2011 at 05:23 AM.
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Old
11-23-2011, 01:50 AM
  #140
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yeah, and you are conveniently forgetting all the years he wasn't injured or missed less than 10 games.

give it a rest, you're embarrassing yourself...

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Old
11-23-2011, 02:10 AM
  #141
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yeah, and you are conveniently forgetting all the years he wasn't injured or missed less than 10 games.

give it a rest, you're embarrassing yourself...
meh no worries, whenever he talks about Markov he goes into panic mode.

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11-23-2011, 05:06 AM
  #142
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I know and never once said anything to the contrary I just think it was a stupid contract to offer a guy with the injuries he has had over the last few seasons. In teh old thread I mentioned that a 1 year deal at 1 to 1.5 so we could evaluate his game and see how he would hold up through a season. If all went well sign him on for a couple more at a higher rate at that time.
Negotiations don't work that way, Markov could of found 29 teams who would beat that offer, at 1 year to evaluate the situation as opposed to 3, the dollar value would have to increase, to say something like 1yr at 7m.

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11-23-2011, 05:10 AM
  #143
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So in essence, we sign Hamrlik who the whole fanbase felt couldn't play the big minutes anymore for extended lengths (and it showed in the playoffs), as for pairing young guys with vets, i believe thats why Gill was retained instead of Hamrlik

Wiz at his dollars is not a better deal than Markov, and both have similar injury histories so the risk is about the same, yet Markov is a better Dman

As for Jovo as much as I liked the guy for some reason he's not the player he once used to be. let's say we bit, what assets would we have used in that trade?

Markov is more valuable to this team than any of the other options, just remember a season is a marathon and not a sprint. Crosby came back with great fanfare and hoopla why can't markov?
There was no excuse for keeping Gill over Hamrlik, if there was one bone headed decision made by PG it would be this one.

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11-23-2011, 05:22 AM
  #144
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No idea of a timeframe (and still haven't heard anything verified about his injury) but this TSN report says he (and Campoli) are expected to be out a while longer
Actually AK is making the trip to Carolina, and is expected back real soon.

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11-23-2011, 06:43 AM
  #145
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exactly.

eller on wing is very ****ing . he's just not good - scratch that - not even decent on wings. he looks completely lost there. desharnais on the other hand, has proven he can do better on wing than eller. small sample size i know, but desharnais looked much more comfortable than eller on wing

if given the choice, i'd put eller at center and push desharnais to wing until someone gets injured.

I think every (or almost every) Hab fan can agree that Eller has to play center...with Gomez we have more options. Eller on wing = coach Martin benching him quite often. Eller at center = many compliments from Hab fans. Desharnais at center ONLY when one of Gomez-Pleks-Eller is injured.

Cammalleri - Pleks - Cole
Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Desharnais - Eller - Moen/Darche
Moen/Darche - Nokia - Palushaj
A.Kosts (injured)
White (injured)
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Quote:
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just a thought and somebody shoot me down if that's never been done before but, what would be the harm in dressing markov as a 7th d-man for last half of the coming trip and only playing him on the powerplay?

seems like a good way to slowly bring him back up to speed while at the same time saving plekanec from his misery no?
Don't think Markov would go for this...same with the coach (but you never know...don't think so though...can't remember the last time it was done...M-A Bergeron wasn't playing many 5on5 minutes though, mostly a PP specialist).
Even when fully healthy...I'd try to keep him at 18min or less but get all the PP time he can handle (just to lessen the chances of injury of course, then again...he gets paid to be minute cruncher...21minutes+ but he's so fragile I'd lessen his minutes). As soon as he starts getting 20 minutes and more...it's heart-attack time (with every hit/push he receives).

I'm thinking when he's ready...bring him in slowly (obviously) give him #4 to #6 dman minutes...a minimum of ''fragile'' 5 on 5 minutes (don't put him out there vs a Cooke or Lucic or Tootoo or E.Staal or Grabovski or Price ,etc...just about anyone who might give him a push or a bodycheck or an accidental skate slash!!,etc) and play him on almost EVERY PP.

VERY IMPORTANT:
IF Markov will get injured...IF, he better not get injured AFTER the trade deadline!! We better have time to pick up a top 3 or top 4 dman BEFORE the trade deadline (IF he gets injured). Markov better not **** our team up...again (all about the playoffs...the real season).

10 dman IF/WHEN everyone is healthy...highly unlikely with our injury prone d-corps!! (but I'll keep hoping!). Keep 'em all if you can unless there's a team that is offering an amazing player(s) in return (offer you can't refuse). We won't lose Diaz, St-Denis...but Emelin may lose patience and leave (we don't want that) and Weber may lose patience as well

To all the ones saying trade Campoli...a Campoli and Gorges duo has good potential to be solid in playoffs (I just hope Campoli has not become extremely injury-prone like Markov). To me it's a coin toss between Spacek and Gill (only if you forced me to trade one), unless they're all patient with not always playing. But I have a feeling injuries will settle many things! (hope not though).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-23-2011 at 07:14 AM.
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Old
11-23-2011, 07:18 AM
  #146
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Except Wiz wasn't here to score goals either (although he did score some and is capable), his true value was QB'ing the PP and you can bet your bottom dollar that our PP would be amongst the best with him and Subban playing back there.

Is he worth the price tag? Probably not. Is he as good as Markov? Not pre-injury, not by a mile. We'll see where the future takes us. I have a good feeling about Markov being effective when he comes back, but it's early to say we made the right call. There is also the lingering question as to whether we can make the PP work without a left-handed bomb on the point for Markov to setup, where as Subban-Wisniewski was a proven commodity.

I actually think the team could have been aggressive in approaching both players (think bye-bye Gomez, or leaving Gill off the table and finding Spacek a home on a team needing cap-relief). I'd rather build the team with very offensive minded D-men (let's not forget Markov & Subban are no slouches defensively) and let guys like Desharnais and Eller compete for the 2nd line spot, which ironicly they are doing now anyways...
You do not have to wait to know if it was the right call. It was. No matter the outcome, PG at the time, took made the right decision.

Letting Wiz go was also a good move. He is barely worth half his contract. He is a slightly better version of MAB, that is all. Would he have helped our PP? Sure. Would it have been worth his current price? Not even close. Ehrhoff would have helped our PP too, and his cap hit is good, but would you have signed him for 10years? Of course not.

Re-signing Markov and bringing in Campoli as a support were good moves. Not PG's fault that Campy got injured like that.
I would take Markov on one leg over Wiz. We can stop talking about him, he was not an option I even wanted to consider.

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11-23-2011, 07:21 AM
  #147
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''Habs are offering a show'': Josh Gorges won't tell you ''we're offering a show, don't come back if you don't like it'', instead Gorges will say ''our fans deserve better than this'' (when our Habs lose many in a row). It's a religion, it's a lifestyle, it's our pride...it's way more than just ''offering a show''. Ice Capades, Harlem Globetrotters are shows, not our Habs. And if I'm not satisfied with waiting for Markov (season after season) I'll voice my opinion and I won't go away (my right as a loyal Hab fan). I've followed our Habs for a long long time and I've been VERY patient since 1993 (last Cup), and also remember a bit from our 1986 Cup and '89 Cup Finals, do you? And I'm positive towards pretty much every Hab player (incl. Gomez), but if there's something I can't accept it's a player who is constantly injured and can't even give a discount which makes me think he's not here for a Cup, he's here for his paychecks (until he can prove me wrong I'll continue believing this).

Markov's injuries....: you also forgot that Grabovski
(165-170lbs) gave Markov a light check (ultra light everyday bodycheck) and Markov went down like a novice player. Maybe you conveniently forgot about that one?!

Anyways...I'm glad Markov is cleared for contact...all I'm saying is I'm fed up of the waiting for this always-so-unpleasant/depressing/negative-in-interviews-always-injured dman-who couldn't-give-a-discount-to-our-Habs, now we're facing a possible UFA-Gorges. Without Gorges+ Subban we're nothing.

Now it's all about how long can Markov stay healthy (as usual)...will Markov be injured by our own players in practice? will he play 10 games only? 20? 30? (and miss the playoffs...again?). If we have to do this again next year I'd rather he show some honor and retire or accept a trade (this way we can move on with another dman, but I have a feeling Markov will suck every penny out of the $5,75mil THREE YEAR contract even if it means only playing 20-30 games/season and missing playoffs).


Would be great (for once) to hear Markov say in interview ''I'm so excited! Can't wait to play for the Habs again and join my teammates...it's been forever since I helped my Habs, I'm hungry to play'' (instead all we get is a miserable/depressing face that barely is capable of expressing himself with ''next question, next question'' when addressing a fair/polite/normal question on time-frame).

Go Markov Go (stay healthy for once and there's nothing wrong with trying to avoid bodychecks a la Gorges/Subban...don't be a sitting duck out there... my right to remain skeptical about his extra fragile body).

I'm always amazed, be it for hockey or everything else in life, how some people feel they're entitled to everything. Because I've been a fan for a long time, I'm entitled to this and that... because I work hard, I'm entitled to a promotion and a raise.. because I pay, I'm entitled to say or do anything I want...

So by their logic, their boss can verbally abuse them because they're paying them, since I can insult players or boo them because I paid for a ticket, thus their salary.

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11-23-2011, 07:42 AM
  #148
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It's like if they were saying that O'Byrne will be the next Rafalski ! Both are Americans, like both Robidas and St-Denis are Quebecers... it makes so much sense... I guess it's what happens when you give too much airtime to Rock Voisine and George Laraque. Why rejoice at the return of Markov or to an extent Gill when you know they will STEAL St-Denis' place in the line-up !
O'byrne is from BC, not the US...but I get your point.

I think there are similarities between them. Both are about the same size, both are smart and have good hockey sense. I think St Denis is a bit better skater. Robidas is definitely tougher and grittier.

From seeing him the last week or so I think St.Denis has a shot at being an NHL d-man. Probably more a #5-6-7 guy that can play the PP and plays mistake free. But I don't see it happening here with all the PMD's in the pipeline(Markov Subban Weber Diaz plus Beaulieu coming).

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11-23-2011, 07:47 AM
  #149
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I'm always amazed, be it for hockey or everything else in life, how some people feel they're entitled to everything. Because I've been a fan for a long time, I'm entitled to this and that... because I work hard, I'm entitled to a promotion and a raise.. because I pay, I'm entitled to say or do anything I want...

So by their logic, their boss can verbally abuse them because they're paying them, since I can insult players or boo them because I paid for a ticket, thus their salary.
Well...you'll go the rest of your life continuing to be amazed at how humans react to unfairness. We can't all be perfect like you.

How do you feel about the constant bashing of Gomez and many other current Hab players and many many former Hab players...?? did you defend every single one? or you just have a soft spot for Markov?

Entitled to everything? Let's not go too far. I'm entitled to write my opinion on Markov on...HF Boards (Canadiens Boards). And that's all I'm doing. I'll go on record here and write that I've never booed a Habs player at the Forum or Bell Centre. This is the first time I complain constantly against ONE Hab player on a hockey website 'cause I feel I have the right to (waiting forever and ever for a player that doesn't give discounts will do that to me and as a bonus he's always very negative in interviews...always grumpy and miserable...wish we were waiting for Raymond Bourque instead of always injured/miserable/grumpy Markov).

If I'm a woman...all the $$$$$ in the world couldn't get me to marry this miserable/grumpy Markov who is only trying to collect as much $$$$ in Montreal before going back to Russia. Let's see how long it takes before he gets another injury that takes 9 to 12 months to heal. 10 games? 20 games? 30 games?

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11-23-2011, 07:52 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
There was no excuse for keeping Gill over Hamrlik, if there was one bone headed decision made by PG it would be this one.
It's pretty easy to justify. Hamrlik was offered a 1 year deal and chose to hold out for 2 years. I'm pretty sure most Habs fan would agree that multi year deals to 35+ guys(see Spacek) are not a good idea. PLUS the clincher is that Gill makes Subban a better player by keeping on track and not ad libing. Gill has a big impact on our young players, Hamrlik was a better player on ice but more of a quiet leader. I think Gill's presence is part of whay guys like Weber Subban Emelin St.Denis and Diaz have all been solid contributors the last 2 years despite having little or no experience in the NHL.

Hamrlik hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in Washington.

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