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After 20 games, I think it's safe to say...

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Old
11-21-2011, 07:28 PM
  #101
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
::Raises Hand::

I did. But other than Kurri no one else thinks less of Jarret Stoll's game than I do. But I must admit not even I thought he would be this pitiful.

And Damacles, as soon as I heard the Kings were strongly considering playing Moreau at 3rd line RW I knew we had major major issues on that line. This is a guy who was the worst player on Columbus last year, no one wanted him this summer, we sign him for barely the league minimum and suddenly he is our 3rd line rw?
Ok I can buy that. So Herby predicted it. Well I sure as you know what didn't see it coming. I thought for sure the Bottom six would at least Be somewhat Competitive. They are not even applying pressure to opposing Bottom Six lines.

I mean you can scream Terry Murray all you want. But at some point Pride has to kick in for those Bottom six Guys. They are awful.

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11-21-2011, 07:35 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
...

2008/9 season was 2.52 - 27th place
2009/10 season was 2.94 - T9th place (primarily due to Doughty and Simmonds)
20010/11 season was 2.67 - 25th place
20011/12 season is 2.45 - 24th place
... the most telling thing about these numbers is that increasing your goal average about 5 tenths moves you into the top ten as an offensive team. Plus you're measuring different years of development with different expectations.

The reality (for me) is that this weekend the Kings got schooled by a team with much more experience that worked their system perfectly. Wings players were saying it was their best effort this year. They were called out by Babcock. And it showed.

The Kings were a couple of bounces away from a three goal lead before the Wings scored. Howard kept them in the game. And then Detroit wore the Kings down. Where? Dot to board play, corner play, recovering pucks, retaining possession, great forecheck and execution of dump and chase, exactly what Murray coaches - Detroit delivered a 45 minute seminar on it. Ironic.

As fans, we don't seem to respect any opponent.

It's never the opponents play or effort or puck luck. It's always how "bad the Kings players, coaches, system, lines, management, and owners, suck" and "if we'd only trade this guy, get this guy, fire this coach, hire this coach.... blah, blah, blah."

It ain't easy for a team to muscle their way to elite status. The teams that are up there aren't going to roll over for us.

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11-21-2011, 07:40 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
... the most telling thing about these numbers is that increasing your goal average about 5 tenths moves you into the top ten as an offensive team. Plus you're measuring different years of development with different expectations.

The reality (for me) is that this weekend the Kings got schooled by a team with much more experience that worked their system perfectly. Wings players were saying it was their best effort this year. They were called out by Babcock. And it showed.

The Kings were a couple of bounces away from a three goal lead before the Wings scored. Howard kept them in the game. And then Detroit wore the Kings down. Where? Dot to board play, corner play, recovering pucks, retaining possession, great forecheck and execution of dump and chase, exactly what Murray coaches - Detroit delivered a 45 minute seminar on it. Ironic.

As fans, we don't seem to respect any opponent.

It's never the opponents play or effort or puck luck. It's always how "bad the Kings players, coaches, system, lines, management, and owners, suck" and "if we'd only trade this guy, get this guy, fire this coach, hire this coach.... blah, blah, blah."

It ain't easy for a team to muscle their way to elite status. The teams that are up there aren't going to roll over for us.
You just pointed out ALL NHL Fan bases. But no one wants to ever admit they are that Bias. It's always luck, the Refs, Our team playing down to the other teams level BLah BLah.

Seriously every year people say the Wings are done; they are old blah blah. And every Year they ram it down people's throats. They are an Elite Organization and Team until proven otherwise.

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Old
11-21-2011, 08:20 PM
  #104
Sydor25
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Duc, 0.5 goals per game may not seem like much to you, but that is 41 more goals. Easily 10-15 extra points in the standings. Puts the team in the top 4 of the conference.

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11-21-2011, 08:24 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Hey man, get out of here with that nonsense. This is the place where we criticize the team for not bringing us the Cup in November!

It seems like everyone here has it all figured out (as they do every year) so why do you guys even bother watching? I really don't get it.

I got news for all you clowns. The Kings are going to win the Stanley Cup THIS year!
Preach it brotha!

All you nay sayers get the **** outta here. I'm actually happy with what we've been able to accomplish thus far considering the euro trip and that we haven't gotten any contribution from the bottom six. Once we fill in the holes of our bottom six. watch out!

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11-21-2011, 08:28 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
This is NOT an elite team in the West. I think it's been proven thus far....playing teams like VAN, SJ and now DET, they've all made the Kings look foolish. Those games haven't even been close, and those are the teams that the Kings should be comparing themselves to....I would even go so far to say that last year Kings team was better than this years.

So all those predictions having the Kings taking the West....no f'ing way, not even close.
It's November... Chillax bro

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11-21-2011, 08:31 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by butteryslugz View Post
Once we fill in the holes of our (add season appropriate entry here), watch out!
This has been the mantra since the late 90s - call me when it actually happens

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11-21-2011, 09:08 PM
  #108
Jason Lewis
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After 20 games, I think it's safe to say...



I haven't been drinking enough to read HF boards regularly.

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11-21-2011, 09:27 PM
  #109
etherialone
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We are 20 games into the season.

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11-21-2011, 09:52 PM
  #110
Josh Deitell
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Originally Posted by butteryslugz View Post
It's November... Chillax bro
Just takes one loss to a top team playing one of their best games of the season to undoubtedly turn the season to ****, apparently.

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Old
11-21-2011, 10:14 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
Just takes one loss to a top team playing one of their best games of the season to undoubtedly turn the season to ****, apparently.
I mean no disrespect, but a little more insight is expected of the mods. It's easy to blow off the analysis presented here without comment - it's tougher to actually answer the challenges

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Old
11-21-2011, 11:12 PM
  #112
Josh Deitell
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
I mean no disrespect, but a little more insight is expected of the mods. It's easy to blow off the analysis presented here without comment - it's tougher to actually answer the challenges
I've said my piece plenty of times and am consistly met with pointed statistics and a clear anti-TM and anti-DL agenda. Things get much too serious much too quickly in those type of debates. I believe in this coaching and management group where most people don't, not by any affiliation but as a result of positively trending success and a quality roster/system, and because of that I can't see eye to eye with many people. Arguments that start on that basis are doomed from the beginning.

I would just recommend, not to you specifically but overall, a little more optimism. It's clear that there's a bitterness caused by years of mediocrity but I really do feel that a lot of people are taking our recent success for granted. Just because there's no cup yet doesn't mean the there's nothing to be excited about, and it's a shame that we have a team that's sitting in a playoff spot with a winning record and there's very little positivity anywhere on this board. This is the best Kings team that I've had the fortune of seeing live and for that reason I just can't understand why there's so much contempt towards those in charge.

I know expectations were high entering the season, but there are necessarily ebbs and flows that even the best teams go through and the thing that gets teams through the tough stretches is a belief that things will turn around. I hope the team is thinking that way and that it starts trickling down to the overall fan base soon because as I said earlier, the trend is that wins, even in streaks, bring temporary contentment while it only takes one loss for the masses to go into an uproar.

PS: I'm not a moderator, just on staff. Technically I'm just another poster, except that every time I write something I have to do so knowing that my name will appear next to it.


Last edited by Josh Deitell: 11-21-2011 at 11:28 PM.
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Old
11-22-2011, 12:53 AM
  #113
SLang
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Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
What exactly would imply that? Penner coming back from IR?
People seem to always think that teams only get better with the addition of a player. Well, sometimes they get worse. Team chemistry is seemingly never factored in. I think this team is going to get better as time passes.

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Old
11-22-2011, 03:05 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
Just takes one loss to a top team playing one of their best games of the season to undoubtedly turn the season to ****, apparently.
Is this a joke?

The Kings finished last season in the bottom 1/3 of scoring in the NHL, and are currently in the same bottom 1/3 through 20 games this season and you think people are making these posts about that team not being elite based on one game vs. Detroit.


Last edited by Herby: 11-22-2011 at 04:18 AM.
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Old
11-22-2011, 05:57 AM
  #115
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I'm not as negative as many of you, but I'm not going to say we don't have issues currently. I don't remember who said it, but someone mentioned that the bottom six just has no identity and I agree with that. We have a first and second line that also play third line stopper roles and then two mish-mash fourth line energy lines. The third line isn't a stopper line and the type of energy (speed vs physicality) the bottom six is supposed to bring changes game to game, mainly based on who is playing that night. The strange conglomeration of personnel that we have for the bottom six just isn't working right now. Now, I knew our bottom six would be worse with the players we lost in the offseason, namely Handzus and Simmonds, but I didn't think it'd be this much worse.

This isn't a revelation, but, regarding the scoring the problem, it's really that the bottom 6 just isn't putting anything in the net and the defense could do more as well. In points amongst centers, Kopitar is 2nd and Richards 18th, Gagne is 27th for left wings, and Williams and Brown are 14th and 21st, respectively, for right wings. While you obviously would like another left wing up there, that is great production from our top 6. Neither Jack nor Drew are top 30 for defensemen (Jack is 31, I think) and our highest scoring bottom six player is Stoll with 6 points. NHL.com isn't loading for me right now, so I pulled these numbers from yahoo, I apologize if they are off. If we could start getting just a goal every other game from the bottom six and the defemensen it would improve our scoring a lot. That seems reasonable based on the players we have. We got more than that last year, but we did take a hit in the bottom 6 personnel, so less is expected. The top 6 has improved, but the bottom 6 has fallen enough that is dragging the overall scoring down. This doesn't focus on the popular 5-on-5 issue though.

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Old
11-22-2011, 08:26 AM
  #116
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Just read another interesting stat in regards to the first 20 games, thanks to MB's blog....Ponikarovsky just scored his 5th goal for Carolina?? Isn't that the same amount of goals he had for the Kings the entire season last year?

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11-22-2011, 08:40 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Duc, 0.5 goals per game may not seem like much to you, but that is 41 more goals. Easily 10-15 extra points in the standings. Puts the team in the top 4 of the conference.
So that would be 10 more goals this season as of right now. If Penner hadn't been all upper body(generating no strength or what little speed he might have) and terrified of the puck up to this point, he may have had 3 or 4 goals. If Stoll had 1 or 2 more(which would be under his normal 15-20 goal average pace for a season, even playing for Murray), if Doughty was justifying even half his salary, if Richardson had even 1 goal to show for the effort, if Lewis had anything, if Williams had more than 3, if Brown was on pace for more than 16 goals(and unlike other players that have come and gone, Brown has been able to score, at least a little bit, in Murray's awful, awful system), if Hunter or Moreau had just a single garbage goal between the two of them, then we start talking about that extra half a goal per game.

For the no excuses crowd, Murray sure seems to be a giant excuse. This extra half a goal per game is what these guys would normally be producing. It's not Purcell or Moulson, who never did anything under Murray. We're talking about some guys that have been here for years, have put up their average career totals playing under Murray's outdated system, that for the first 20 games of this season can't put the puck in the net. It's time for the players to show the hell up. Get in there. Get the puck on net. Go to the net. Make and accept a simple pass. It's half a goal per game.

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11-22-2011, 09:17 AM
  #118
Moses Doughty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Just read another interesting stat in regards to the first 20 games, thanks to MB's blog....Ponikarovsky just scored his 5th goal for Carolina?? Isn't that the same amount of goals he had for the Kings the entire season last year?
Hes also first line with Staal and I think Skinner though

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11-22-2011, 09:26 AM
  #119
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I wonder how many of you actually believe that if you argue and complain long and hard enough on hfboards that it will actually change something about the Kings' organization in real life? Based on the comments I see, it seems like many of you do...

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11-22-2011, 10:42 AM
  #120
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
I wonder how many of you actually believe that if you argue and complain long and hard enough on hfboards that it will actually change something about the Kings' organization in real life? Based on the comments I see, it seems like many of you do...
Amen! That and we got plenty of people around here who got too many pats on the back when they were kids and now they believe they are smarter than everyone else.

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11-22-2011, 10:44 AM
  #121
The Tikkanen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
I wonder how many of you actually believe that if you argue and complain long and hard enough on hfboards that it will actually change something about the Kings' organization in real life? Based on the comments I see, it seems like many of you do...
Or you can bury your head in the sand.

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11-22-2011, 10:48 AM
  #122
etherialone
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Alright

After 20 games I think it is safe to say that allot of us are knee jerk reactionary types who will panic over the slightest of issues.

I also think that it is silly to be surprised by our difficulties in scoring and consistency. We have the same coach making the same decisions at the same critical moments and he is having the exact same results that he has had since joining the team.

I still think that our team can make the playoffs AND even make it past a round if we do but I don't see where TM will have or have had any impact on the results.

We are a good team with some nice depth at all but one of our positions, we will be fine.


As soon as our teams leaders decide to completely ignore TM and play winning hockey like they know how.

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11-22-2011, 11:24 AM
  #123
Buddy The Elf
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Or you can bury your head in the sand.
Looks like i picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue..

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Old
11-22-2011, 11:29 AM
  #124
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Alright

After 20 games I think it is safe to say that allot of us are knee jerk reactionary types who will panic over the slightest of issues.

I also think that it is silly to be surprised by our difficulties in scoring and consistency. We have the same coach making the same decisions at the same critical moments and he is having the exact same results that he has had since joining the team.

I still think that our team can make the playoffs AND even make it past a round if we do but I don't see where TM will have or have had any impact on the results.

We are a good team with some nice depth at all but one of our positions, we will be fine.


As soon as our teams leaders decide to completely ignore TM and play winning hockey like they know how.
Isn't it more likely that they will just go through the motions and let the coach swing in the wind?

I was far from an Andy Murray supporter (he should have been replaced long before he was), but wasn't that exactly what happened to him? The team totally shut him off and went through the motions of playing his system without any passion or fire until it was so clear that DT was forced to make a move.

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11-22-2011, 11:36 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Just read another interesting stat in regards to the first 20 games, thanks to MB's blog....Ponikarovsky just scored his 5th goal for Carolina?? Isn't that the same amount of goals he had for the Kings the entire season last year?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
Hes also first line with Staal and I think Skinner though
That's exactly the point - if you put an experienced NHL player in a favorable situation to succeed, more often than not they will succeed.

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