What if Couture or Pavelski went down? or Boyle? We've had great top-6 forwards in the past too,so that is not all there is to it.
At full health, I'd say we're behind Boston, Pittsburgh, with Washington and Philadelphia very close. Boston has better depth, better goaltending, and better defense.
If Boyle went down we'd still have a full compliment of NHL defensemen. If Pavelski or Couture went down then we'd still have 5 top flight top6 NHL forwards.
I don't see why everyone is so freaked out about Boston. I honestly don't see it. If Chara goes down, that is an AHL defense. And if Thomas doesn't play absolutely stellar, then they're toast.
Last edited by TheJuxtaposer: 11-21-2011 at 09:03 PM.
The Sharks can light up Bryz, and they have always been good against Pittsburgh. Boston would be tough, though.
They've never played against healthy Pittsburgh with their brand new defense from last season. Sharks can light up Bryz but they can't do jack **** against Pronger and their really speedy forwards. There's also Washington but I am not as worried.
The Flyers aren't as good as their record would lead you to believe. They're riding an unsustainable even-strength shooting percentage of 11.3% (no team finished with a higher SH% than 8.8 at evens last year) that masks the fact that their shot differential is merely league-average. The Sharks could beat them in a series, it's Pittsburgh, Washington and to a lesser extent Boston and Montreal they should be worried about. But I'm getting far too ahead of myself.
They've never played against healthy Pittsburgh with their brand new defense from last season. Sharks can light up Bryz but they can't do jack **** against Pronger and their really speedy forwards. There's also Washington but I am not as worried.
The two teams in the east I'd be worried about facing is Boston and Buffalo.
What if Couture or Pavelski went down? or Boyle? We've had great top-6 forwards in the past too,so that is not all there is to it.
At full health, I'd say we're behind Boston, Pittsburgh, with Washington and Philadelphia very close. Boston has better depth, better goaltending, and better defense.
If we hadn't gone to seven games with Detroit, I have all confidence we would've gotten past Vancouver. Hell, if it hadn't been for that stanchion, I think we had a good chance of getting past them anyway. I doubt we would've beat Boston, since we were so banged up and brute force is Boston's bread and butter, but Vancouver was a passable opponent.
Speaking of Boston, when we play simple and to our strengths, play our speed and possession game, we do very well. (Ditto against every other team, but a team like Boston especially.) They rely primarily on their physicality and size. Which works well, but we definitely have legs on them, and though no one on our team is anywhere close to Chara, we did get a lot bigger over the summer. I agree on Boston's goaltending, though.
They've never played against healthy Pittsburgh with their brand new defense from last season. Sharks can light up Bryz but they can't do jack **** against Pronger and their really speedy forwards. There's also Washington but I am not as worried.
Well, as far as Philly goes, Pronger is taking health lessons from Ales Hemsky. But their forwards are really, really well rounded. I don't think there is a top-9 in the league that can match Philly, except maybe Pittsburg.
I think we'd need better players just to get to that point (SCF)
I am not trying to be facetious but would you agree that our team is the most improved team in the Western conference this year?
If yes, then I do not understand how we are not being considered good enough to make it to the SCF. Chicago, Detroit and Vancouver have all either remained the same or lost personnel this year.
I do not know much about the Eastern Conference teams so cannot really say how we will match up with them. The teams that stand out there:
Boston - Very Physical
Pitt - Balanced. Good speed.
Philadelphia - Suspect defense?
I would be considered about Pitt the most but we have played well over them recently even though it is a small sample. I do have enough confidence that the Sharks can match any team over a 7 game series.
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What?! Look, he thinks he's people!
You ignored the other part of my post where I talked about how they're statistically a better even-strength team than the Sharks at puck possession. I'm obviously not basing my opinion of them on this game; it's just evidence that Crosby is the same as always and just adds another dimension to an already dominant team.
I don't think that is necessarily a stat you can compare directly. When you have two good puck possession teams, if one of the teams is able to establish and play its usual game, possession for the other team is going to suffer. Obviously you aren't going to have both team dominating time of possession when they face each other. So it's going to be about gaining marginal edges that allow for the establishment of "our" game which will naturally destroy "their" game since it relies on puck possession.
The two teams in the east I'd be worried about facing is Boston and Buffalo.
Boston? Yeah, I'd be scared of facing.
Buffalo, may to a lesser extent, but I believe the Sharks can win a series against the Sabres.
I'd be worried about Boston, Philly (to some extent ala Pronger), and Pittsburgh, but again homerism and confidence makes me think we'll stand a chance.
If Boyle went down we'd still have a full compliment of NHL defensemen. If Pavelski or Couture went down then we'd still have 5 top flight top6 NHL forwards.
I don't see why everyone is so freaked out about Boston. I honestly don't see it. If Chara goes down, that is an AHL defense. And if Thomas doesn't play absolutely stellar, then they're toast.
Chara always plays. He's never hurt. Thomas played stellar for an entire season. I'm pretty sure he can keep it up all year.
My issue with our team is our depth. We have a very good top-6, but other teams have good players too. In a playoff series, there won't be that much of a difference between the top-6s, but the other team's bottom-6 will beat us like they always do.
You ignored the other part of my post where I talked about how they're statistically a better even-strength team than the Sharks at puck possession. I'm obviously not basing my opinion of them on this game; it's just evidence that Crosby is the same as always and just adds another dimension to an already dominant team.
That's because statistics for last year are for different rosters. This year, the Sharks came in with a revamped roster and a shorter offseason, which traditionally means a slower start. I'm not doubting the Pens won't be better without Crosby, but they are also mostly facing different teams.
Buffalo, may to a lesser extent, but I believe the Sharks can win a series against the Sabres.
I'd be worried about Boston, Philly (to some extent ala Pronger), and Pittsburgh, but again homerism and confidence makes me think we'll stand a chance.
We SHOULD be able to beat the Sabres, but some reason they have our number.
I would hate to face a hot Miller in the play offs, I'm sure he is fairly adequate at stopping chest shots.
Bryz wasn't very good in last years play offs and Philly D right now looks pretty atrocious.
Although, maybe Boston could spark something in Jumbo, maybe it would be good to see them in the finals.
I am not trying to be facetious but would you agree that our team is the most improved team in the Western conference this year?
If yes, then I do not understand how we are not being considered good enough to make it to the SCF. Chicago, Detroit and Vancouver have all either remained the same or lost personnel this year.
I do not know much about the Eastern Conference teams so cannot really say how we will match up with them. The teams that stand out there:
Boston - Very Physical
Pitt - Balanced. Good speed.
Philadelphia - Suspect defense?
I would be considered about Pitt the most but we have played well over them recently even though it is a small sample. I do have enough confidence that the Sharks can match any team over a 7 game series.
I do think we are better, but we still would lose IMO. Last year, we lost to the great Vancouver team. Boston beat that team ... Now Boston has basically that same Stanley Cup team with more chemistry, and Tyler Seguin as an even better player.
I'm not even sure if this Sharks team beats the 2010-11 Vancouver team.
Umm, how did Crosby coming back start all this depressing talk about all the teams the Sharks can't beat. Why are we even discussing the Eastern teams? The Sharks will lose in the WCF again so who cares about the Eastern teams.
I don't buy that the Sharks are all that improved over last year. Heatley for Havlat and White for Burns are improvements (and to a lesser degree, last year's awful fourth line for this year's iteration as well as Wallin/Huskins for White/Vandermeer are gains) but going from Seto and Wellwood to Handzus and McGinn is an enormous dropoff up front. There also appears to be somewhat of a regression in Murray and Boyle's abilities as they're pretty decidedly overmatched against top competition at this point. All of that's showing up in the team's underlying numbers which are well behind what they were at the end of last year (albeit ahead of where they were at this point last year, before DW started wheeling and dealing).
Umm, how did Crosby coming back start all this depressing talk about all the teams the Sharks can't beat. Why are we even discussing the Eastern teams? The Sharks will lose in the WCF again so who cares about the Eastern teams.
I don't buy that the Sharks are all that improved over last year. Heatley for Havlat and White for Burns are improvements (and to a lesser degree, last year's awful fourth line for this year's iteration as well as Wallin/Huskins for White/Vandermeer are gains) but going from Seto and Wellwood to Handzus and McGinn is an enormous dropoff up front. There also appears to be somewhat of a regression in Murray and Boyle's abilities as they're pretty decidedly overmatched against top competition at this point. All of that's showing up in the team's underlying numbers which are well behind what they were at the end of last year (albeit ahead of where they were at this point last year, before DW started wheeling and dealing).
Personally, I don't think this assertion matches the eye test. This year's team looks a lot more dangerous at even strength, which is a HUGE positive over last year.
Personally, I don't think this assertion matches the eye test. This year's team looks a lot more dangerous at even strength, which is a HUGE positive over last year.
Only the top line, which was never used last year IIRC, looks a lot more dangerous at this time. Unless your only looking at the last 3 games, which it seems most of the board is. Before these last 3 wins most of this board thought our bottom 6 was virtually worthless.
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History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Umm, how did Crosby coming back start all this depressing talk about all the teams the Sharks can't beat. Why are we even discussing the Eastern teams? The Sharks will lose in the WCF again so who cares about the Eastern teams.
Wow. Last I checked the Sharks were either as good or better than last year. Chicago and Vancouver were both super-stacked teams when they beat us too. Neither of them compare this year to their SCF teams - the core players are there, but the supporting depth is not. You could make an argument that we're at least on even footing with them roster wise.
Vancouver would have won last year if it wasn't for A) the Sharks taking enough out of them to leave them banged up (McGinn took out 1/3rd of their defense by himself) and B) deciding to goon it up against a team that was more than willing to goon back. The Rome hit on Horton changed the entire series. Up to that point in game 3 the Bruins were down 2 games to 0 and slowly getting smothered. Since they came back to win, they definitely deserved it, but they survived two game sevens to get to the finals. One goal the other way and it never would have happened.
The East has great high end talent, but the conference is generally garbage. Look at the interconference games from last year, I think the West won 2/3rds of the games.
As per potential matchups, the Pens would be a coin flip. The biggest issue with them that I would be afraid of would be biased officiating. Not afraid of Buffalo, Philly, Boston, Washington, or anyone else in the conference. The games could definitely be close, but I would not assume a loss against anyone.
Only the top line, which was never used last year IIRC, looks a lot more dangerous at this time. Unless your only looking at the last 3 games, which it seems most of the board is. Before these last 3 wins most of this board thought our bottom 6 was virtually worthless.
Well they have looked better at even strength for longer than 3 games. Pavelski in the top 6 is killer. But on top of that, why not consider the later games more heavily? This is what the team is trying to play like and as the season goes on there's no reason why they won't improve to at least that level or better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic school bus
I do think we are better, but we still would lose IMO. Last year, we lost to the great Vancouver team. Boston beat that team ... Now Boston has basically that same Stanley Cup team with more chemistry, and Tyler Seguin as an even better player.
Boston did NOT beat that team! Remember, Vancouver lost their #1 defenseman in the first game of the series.
Only the top line, which was never used last year IIRC, looks a lot more dangerous at this time. Unless your only looking at the last 3 games, which it seems most of the board is. Before these last 3 wins most of this board thought our bottom 6 was virtually worthless.
I'll agree that the only line that really has that "Holy motherballs where did this come from" aspect is the first one, but our other lines are still markedly better. Havlat's done wonderfully whether on the second or third, our fourth line is not only pulling their weight but doing very well, and our D-corps is much more stabilized (as evidenced by White and Demers' crappy play not sinking us). Our third line has had some issues, but they're not terrible.
We're a much more balanced team this year. The scoring seems to still be coming from the big guns, but the supporting cast is quite capable. I'm not saying this team is automatically Cup bound or anything like that, but I think it's definitely an improvement over last year.
