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Is Saku's days in Montreal numbered?

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Old
09-16-2004, 12:12 AM
  #51
Moester
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I couldn't think of a worse move than to trade Koivu. The guy is one of the best in the league at being a centre. You can put Koivu with anyone and make that person a better hockey player. Look at what he did with Selane, he just had that guy play at a level he hasn't played in years. Besides he's a hero in Montreal and imo he should finish his career in a CH Jersey. I can't see us getting any player seriously worth the time.

I'm sure that we could get a lot for him don't get me wrong...but we probably wouldn't get a centre in exchange for him because anyone who would trade away a star to get him would be in need of a centre. So we'd a lose one of the league's premier playmaker that can play point on the powerplay for someone who can't.

Lets be honest here, this isn't a video game. GMs make trade to get people who's qualities they need in exchange for players with qualities they either have in abundance or can do without. And Montreal has plenty of wingers especially if we sign Kovy. So we'd get either a big checking centre who can score (Which since we have Bonk, we've already got locked up) an offensive d-man (which we need but lets be honest and say that only one or two guys in the whole league could be worth Koivu in a trade) or we'd get some draft picks and set the team back 3-4 years.

I could be missing something too, and if packaged right we might be able to get some great deal. But personally I have major doupts that we should move him or any of our big players unless the team obviously can't make it with what we have this year.

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09-16-2004, 12:41 AM
  #52
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That's right - trade the "overrated" Koivu because we have a plethora of first-line centers in Bonk (don't wanna see him on the first line for anything more than a couple weeks as an injury filler), Ribeiro (still unproven), and guys who have never played a single NHL game as a center: Higgins, Chipchura, Locke and Plekanec. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Higgins and Plekanec have a whopping 4 NHL games between the two of them as wingers? Whatever. And with Saku's injury history, he is certain to command anything worthwhile in return. Uh ok, how can you tell it's the off-season?

How's this for another random off-season thread topic: you've just been signed by the Habs to a long-term contract. What is the first irresponsible thing you do with your new-found wealth?

1) Treat your buddies to a week of drinking, gambling and prostitutes in Las Vegas
2) Buy an expensive engagement ring for your girlfriend
3) Hire a legal team to plan a hostile takeover of Darz Inc.
4) Buy Asian stocks
5) Other (explain)

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09-16-2004, 10:42 AM
  #53
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Saku's days in Montreal are indeed numbered...and it's a HUGE number!!

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09-16-2004, 11:10 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anon
3) Hire a legal team to plan a hostile takeover of Darz Inc.
You could actaully save money if you forget about the legal team and just send me $20 and I'll gladly give ya the company!

$20 too much??? How about $10?

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09-16-2004, 11:44 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Darz
You could actaully save money if you forget about the legal team and just send me $20 and I'll gladly give ya the company!

$20 too much??? How about $10?
Ergo, the irresponsibility of actually hiring a legal team.

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Old
09-16-2004, 02:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by NWT Habs Fan
Saku's days in Montreal are indeed numbered...and it's a HUGE number!!
What he said!

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Old
09-16-2004, 06:49 PM
  #57
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Saku Koivu will be 31 and a RFA by the time there is NHL hockey in Montreal again. Higgins will be NHL ready by then, with Chipchura and Locke shortly behind him. We already have Koivu, Riberio, Bonk, Begin at center.

Koivu makes the most logical choice to move. Given his salary and trade value. I can't see Gainey trading Riberio and doubtful he will move Bonk so soon.

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09-16-2004, 07:32 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
Saku Koivu will be 31 and a RFA by the time there is NHL hockey in Montreal again. Higgins will be NHL ready by then, with Chipchura and Locke shortly behind him. We already have Koivu, Riberio, Bonk, Begin at center.

Koivu makes the most logical choice to move. Given his salary and trade value. I can't see Gainey trading Riberio and doubtful he will move Bonk so soon.

oooooooooh 31??? gee, we're almost starting to look like the Maple Leafs then eh? Quick trade Koivu , he finished puberty.

How does a one year lock-out help Higgins to become NHL ready anyway ?

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09-16-2004, 07:36 PM
  #59
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[QUOTE=tritone]Quick trade Koivu , he finished puberty. QUOTE]

You made me laugh out loud... thank you

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Old
09-16-2004, 07:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
I think Koivu is overrated. On a good team he is a #2 center...at tops.
When you say on a good team, I suppose that you mean on a team better than the Finnish squad that Team Canada barely beat to win the World Cup a few days ago...

Funny, looking at their roster, if they were an NHL team I would rank them as a top cup contender...
Now, he was good enough to be their #1 centre (ahead of Olli Jokinen, who had a pretty darn good tournament as well), and good enough to be named to the all star team, so I ask you, what in the world does he have to do to prove himself to you and all the other "haters"?

Had he not had the bad luck with injuries and cancer throughout his career (yes, I know that his size and style of play make him injury prone, and that definitely drops his value from a G.M point of view, but that does not make him a 2nd liner, it only makes him a risky bet... there's another health risk at centre that I'd never demote to the 2nd line, his name is Mario) this kind of unjustified criticism would be considered blasphemy.
Koivu would lace up as the #1 centre on at least 80% of todays NHL teams, period!

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09-16-2004, 07:43 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
Saku Koivu will be 31 and a RFA by the time there is NHL hockey in Montreal again. Higgins will be NHL ready by then, with Chipchura and Locke shortly behind him. We already have Koivu, Riberio, Bonk, Begin at center.

Koivu makes the most logical choice to move. Given his salary and trade value. I can't see Gainey trading Riberio and doubtful he will move Bonk so soon.
Do you really think that Gainey, a guy that made his living on Grit, Heart and Leadership, would move Koivu (a player who arguably best demonstrates those qualities on our team) before he'd get rid of a selfish cream puff like Ribeiro???

And no, I don't hate Ribs, but clearly he needs a lot of work in the CHARACTER department (see: flailling on the ice like a european football player without getting hit & getting benched for selfishly prolonging his shifts).

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Old
09-16-2004, 07:49 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritone
oooooooooh 31??? ...Quick trade Koivu , he finished puberty.
I can't wait till I turn 31. This puberty thing has been bothering me for several years now.

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Old
09-16-2004, 08:44 PM
  #63
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Saku should retire as the Captain of the Canadiens... He has the DNA of a champion, and should be treated by our brass as such. There is no doubt in my mind that inside Saku KOivu beats the heart of the Habs Ghosts... He plays with too much passion to not see that.

#11 Saku Koivu, Montreal Canadien forever.

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Old
09-17-2004, 12:32 AM
  #64
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Oh boy, where do I start?

First of all, how come someone who considers Koivu as a #2 center on most teams can also think he would bring back a Franchise player in return? How's that possible? Just doesn't make sense to begin with.

Every team in the NHL knows Saku Koivu is extremly injury-prone, they will never give you fair value for him. If Bob Gainey trade Koivu, what kind of message is it sending to the team?

No matter how hard you work for the Montreal Canadiens, you don't belong to this team.

Koivu has the CH tatooed on his heart, he is the captain, the leader, the best player who is a clutch performer in the playoffs, World championships, Olympics etc. He has suceeded every time he has been asked to be one of the top player for his team when it counted the most. This is what is expected from the legit first line center Koivu IS.

Koivu has the ability to dominate games & always produced close to 70 points/season pace with great finishers such as Jan Bulis, Chad Kilger, Martin Rucinsky, Brian Savage. I'm surprised Koivu's back didn't broke carrying Brian Savage for so many years.

Shane Doan, Patrick Elias, Milan Hedjuk are not natural centers, if you consider trading Handzus for Koivu is a fair deal for the Canadiens, I'm just speechless. Saku Koivu is better than Brendan Morrison in every aspect of the game beside durability and defensive play.

I don't understand all these persons who wants to trade all the quality veterans because of the mighty prospects. What's the point of having so many unproven prospects in a line-up with no quality veteran to surround them?

Saku Koivu is not the ideal building block for an NHL franchise because of his many injuries, but he has certainly the leadership, the attitude, the clutch performances that makes Habs fans proud to have him as their captain.

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Old
09-17-2004, 02:50 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicpea
I can't wait till I turn 31. This puberty thing has been bothering me for several years now.

LOL...if you're lucky , it might end at 30 , 29 even!!

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Old
09-17-2004, 06:31 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
The return would be slim for Koivu.

We better keep him.

I agree, I dont think you'd get a franchise type player in return. Koivu is worth 20x more to the habs than to anyone else.

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09-17-2004, 10:39 AM
  #67
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Habs shouldn't trade Koivu, never. He's the perfect player to have for an entire career. Let me explain my view.

For now, Koivu is a great first line center, even if we forget about all his courage and determination. All the stats you could put on the table while comparing him to the bests habs had in the past is a non-sens. Two years ago, while playing most of the year with the good (not great) Zednick and the misplaced Bulis, he was the thirteent center in the whole league as far as points are concerned! On 30 teams!! Not bad at all, isn't it? Everytime Koivu had played with good wingers, he had played like the bests centers in the league.

That was my first point. Now, my second : In the next 2 or 3 years, If a Ribeiro or a youngster develop into a better first line center, then good! We'll have a 30-34 years old Koivu as our second line center! It would be amazing and would therefore put the habs in the major cup contender suit. And Koivu is the perfect player in the playoffs. Can you imagine our second line center and captain and heart and soul, smeling the cup and then drive his line as good as the first one? It's Conn Smythe writen all over it.

And then what? Don't you think that an older Koivu, say at around 36-40 years old, can be an amazing veteran presence, playing on the third and/or fourth line, with kids, like every team want when the playoffs' coming? Like Andreychuk, like Gilmour did for us two years ago, and like many many many other older guys helping young teams acheive their goal. A complete Koivu's career in Montreal would be amazing.

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Old
09-20-2004, 10:27 AM
  #68
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Trade Saku for at the '05 draft for another pick use it to select either Brule or Coligano? This would delete 4.5 million off the payroll and add a Brule type.

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09-20-2004, 10:48 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chehabi
Name the teams where Koivu would be a number 2 center...at tops.
Colorado Avalanche
At the moment VINCENT DAMPHOUSSE is 2 line center
I would love to get Saku Koivu if u don't like him.. we can take him for sure

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Old
09-20-2004, 10:49 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
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At the moment VINCENT DAMPHOUSSE is 2 line center
I would love to get Saku Koivu if u don't like him.. we can take him for sure
I have seen him playing in world championship tournament 1995 when he was like 20 years old and i knew he will be a superstar like he is now..

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Old
09-20-2004, 12:28 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Color@do @v@l@nche
I have seen him playing in world championship tournament 1995 when he was like 20 years old and i knew he will be a superstar like he is now..
But still Saku Koivu is inferior to Vinny Lecavalier. There was a little chance last winter that Habs GM could try a trade Koivu + another player/prospect/draft pick for Vinny Lecavalier. It didn't happen and I think Habs of Mtl missed an unique opportunity there. Lecavalier is today the top forward player of the league, or at least one of the top 10. He is in his prime at 24, he will perform for a good number of years to come. I said all that last winter and I got bashed/ridiculized/ignored/argumented. I would rather have Vinny as my #1 center over Koivu anytime. Koivu is fine and skilled but Vinny is superior in size, injury free, strenght, speed and hard shot. If you say no matter what the offer is, Tampa GM would never accept a trade Koivu for Lecavalier then I agree with you. It's unrealistic.

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09-20-2004, 12:50 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
But still Saku Koivu is inferior to Vinny Lecavalier. There was a little chance last winter that Habs GM could try a trade Koivu + another player/prospect/draft pick for Vinny Lecavalier. It didn't happen and I think Habs of Mtl missed an unique opportunity there. Lecavalier is today the top forward player of the league, or at least one of the top 10. He is in his prime at 24, he will perform for a good number of years to come. I said all that last winter and I got bashed/ridiculized/ignored/argumented. I would rather have Vinny as my #1 center over Koivu anytime. Koivu is fine and skilled but Vinny is superior in size, injury free, strenght, speed and hard shot. If you say no matter what the offer is, Tampa GM would never accept a trade Koivu for Lecavalier then I agree with you. It's unrealistic.
Habitude, I don't believe there was ever a deal on the table. TB decided before last year that Vinny would not be dealt. Dudley wanted to, but was overruled by ownership. That was 2 years ago. According to McGuire, Vinny was almost dealt to Toronto. I don't think we missed the boat last year, it was only hf board talk.

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09-20-2004, 06:16 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by mcphee
Habitude, I don't believe there was ever a deal on the table. TB decided before last year that Vinny would not be dealt. Dudley wanted to, but was overruled by ownership. That was 2 years ago. According to McGuire, Vinny was almost dealt to Toronto. I don't think we missed the boat last year, it was only hf board talk.
Yeah it was a fantasy hf Habs board talk but 80% of Habs boards members said they wouldn't trade one for one Koivu to Vinny. Saying it's unrealistic or impossible is alright but saying no way Saku is 20 times better than Vinny is kindda disturbed mentally.

Imagine Vinny with Toronto. The Cup in Toronto in 2004.

Btw, I never said Koivu is not a good player. But I know what kind of stuff makes a superstar and last winter I knew Vinny had it.

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Old
09-20-2004, 07:44 PM
  #74
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Of course Saku's days in Montréal are numbered. I think he'll last no longer than 6 years, and he might retire before then.

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Old
09-20-2004, 11:22 PM
  #75
tritone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
Yeah it was a fantasy hf Habs board talk but 80% of Habs boards members said they wouldn't trade one for one Koivu to Vinny. Saying it's unrealistic or impossible is alright but saying no way Saku is 20 times better than Vinny is kindda disturbed mentally.

Imagine Vinny with Toronto. The Cup in Toronto in 2004.

Btw, I never said Koivu is not a good player. But I know what kind of stuff makes a superstar and last winter I knew Vinny had it.

I still wouldn't trade Saku for Vinny straight up even now. I don't think he's 20 times better than Vinny by any stretch . I think they're pretty close talent-wise for different reasons but Koivu is Montreal and I honestly think trading him would have a much more negative effect on the team and the fans than any new player could erase, EVEN a hometown boy like Vinny.

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