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Markham, Ontario planning to build a 19,000 seat arena
No you fools! Build it in a location central to Mississauga/Brampton/Oakville! Over a 1.2 M population between those three cities and growing.
Agreed. In fact, Woodbine is already well down the road to developing this property...a large scale project called Woodbine Live. It will include residential, commercial, hotel, shopping and entertainment including a concert hall and outdoor rink...
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A mélange of activity will appeal to a broad demographic, including offices, residences, shops, restaurants, a cinema complex, a 6,000-seat concert hall, a four-star hotel boasting 600 rooms, a 100,000 sq. ft. conference centre, clubs, pubs, canals and a skating rink.
Their partner is The Cordish Company, which is developing Philly Live (Philadelphia) with Comcast-Spectacor, and Ballpark Village (St. Louis) with the Cardinals, among other projects. See the artists rendering for what is either the concert hall or convention center here...
Probably wouldn't take much to alter the plan for the concert hall/convention centre to turn it into a 20K seat arena when one considers the possible return (a new NHL team for the GTA!). They could also easily put a GO Train Station on the south side of Woodbine where the rail already exists with the next stop being the Malton GO Station near Pearson, all connected to Union Station downtown (about 30-40 minutes away).
For those unfamiliar of the geography of this part of the GTA:
And here's a closer look at the actual tract of land based on BMac's directions.
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The arena would be built on a tract of land owned by Bratty, just west of the existing GO Transit train station in Unionville, and just north of Highway 407...
Let's just assume the NHL moved in. Would Markham basically be the Islanders to the New York's Rangers?
Philosophically speaking ya, but financially, no. There are tens of 1000's of people shut-out of the ACC due to demand & prices for Leafs tickets. On the corporate ledger, MLSE charges a Kings Ransom for suites (and actually has several sitting dark due to the sluggish economy) & sponsorships so its debatable just how "affordable" tickets to a team in a Markham, Downsview, Woodbine or even to a lesser extent Hamilton might be. Competition for these dollars would be of grave concern to MLSE as Im sure you can imagine. You have to buy a seat license at the ACC (several 1000's) before you can buy tickets and so on. Waiting lists generational.
If a team sets up shop & charges 30-60% less then what?. MLSE may have to drop their prices as well. Maybe not though. Maybe the new kids on the block can get away with ACC prices but how does that serve the underserved in the GTA?. Then you'd have the competition for concerts & events. Broadcasting. Just a whole range of problems the Rangers' (and to a far lesser extent Philly) didnt have to deal with when the Devils & Islanders moved in nearby. Its seriously problematical which is one of the reasons why I favor Hamilton above all of the others. However, if Markham or Woodbine, Downsviews serious about it, they'd best be having some very lengthy chats with the powers that be & be prepared to pay & pay BIG if they ever hope to see that dream coming true. Fact is, MLSE is for sale, up for grabs, and by the time you got done building, acquiring a franchise, paying the indemnifications etc youd practically be in the same price range as what the OTPP is looking to sell for.
man markham would be amazing. they just need to stop decreasing speed limits.
i'd rather have a team in markham than hamilton. hamilton kind of sucks as a city and markham is growing into a better one. markham is also much easier to access than hamilton for the GTA.
If a team sets up shop & charges 30-60% less then what?. MLSE may have to drop their prices as well. Maybe not though. Maybe the new kids on the block can get away with ACC prices but how does that serve the underserved in the GTA?. Then you'd have the competition for concerts & events. Broadcasting. Just a whole range of problems the Rangers' (and to a far lesser extent Philly) didnt have to deal with when the Devils & Islanders moved in nearby. Its seriously problematical which is one of the reasons why I favor Hamilton above all of the others. However, if Markham or Woodbine, Downsviews serious about it, they'd best be having some very lengthy chats with the powers that be & be prepared to pay & pay BIG if they ever hope to see that dream coming true.
Then dronald has a new favourite team and season tickets to boot for the "Southern Ontario Greats." Yeah, that's my idea for a name, after the lakes. You heard it here first.
If this arena is built, but they don't get an NHL right away, would an OHL team be interested in going into this area? Or would it just be concerts and such. I'm not familiar with the GTA.
The gta is not a big major jr market in terms of attendance so no i can't see a major jr team playing out of this rink.
Newsflash; Markhams' already an amazing place, has been for decades. Sure it'd be great, but if you cant see a lot of Mr.Haney in this pipe dream then I suggest you go out & rent or buy the boxed set of Green Acres'. Read "Field of Schemes". Checkout Charles Wang. Steve Ellman. Markham doesnt need the grief. Now, if these guys were totally up-front?. No problem. Go for it.
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Originally Posted by dronald
Then dronald has a new favourite team and season tickets to boot for the "Southern Ontario Greats." Yeah, that's my idea for a name, after the lakes. You heard it here first.
3rd person singular huh?. Which one are you, a Winger or the Center?.
Newsflash; Markhams' already an amazing place, has been for decades. Sure it'd be great, but if you cant see a lot of Mr.Haney in this pipe dream then I suggest you go out & rent or buy the boxed set of Green Acres'. Read "Field of Schemes". Checkout Charles Wang. Steve Ellman. Markham doesnt need the grief. Now, if these guys were totally up-front?. No problem. Go for it.
i spent enough time in Markham to say that it's definitely far from amazing. there's nothing to do there. an arena would change it though.
it's where people live when they want to buy a cheap McMansion
it's where people live when they want to buy a cheap McMansion
Well, from its original quaint village & pastoral like settings of days gone by through the McMansion explosion its always been an oasis, just far enough from the hustle & bustle. You get bang for your buck & its conveniently located. Decidedly family oriented. It ranks well behind Hamilton, Downsview & Woodbine as my choice for an arena of that magnitude. But if these guys are serious, and their willing to play the game, storys true, go right ahead. I just wish the developers would lay their cards on the table & come right out with it that "ya, we want an NHL franchise" instead of that nonsense about a concert & events venue.
Now that would be nasty, kill Hamilton's dream and take their AHL team as well
Man. You guys.
The Bulldogs are headed for Laval.
Our Toronto Maple Leafs are headed for another Lottery Pick.
And the City of Markham appears to be climbing into Wilbur Watters Bathtub.
honestly... how many concerts could they attract? Consider the area around the ACC is undergoing a massive massive residential boom (within 1-2 blocks are a 67, 57, 35, 16 and 12 storey condo tower, a soon to be built 75 storey condo and a proposed twin 70 storey condo tower), I would think ACC would stand to draw more of the concerts.
Lol good luck with markham.. that's asian country right there and if anything they prefer basketball from my personal dealings with the asian community.
Also the NHL doesn't want a second team in Southern Ontario, if they had to then maybe, but markham? The leafs will do everything to stop this.
They couldnt/cant compete against the juggernaut of MLSE presently nor likely down the road when whomever buys it up. You'd have the same sized venue along with all of the amenities with the ACC just based on location alone blowing anywhere else out of the water. Now suppose the new kids on the block decide to compete for 'A' Listers in getting into a bidding war with MLSE over Appearance Fee's & or Facility Discounts?... Maybe they think they can pack the joint with the likes of Corey Hart/Loverboy/Foot in Coldwater reunion shows or something. It just doesnt make any sense.
MLSE would try and stop this in any way possible - regardless if there's an attempt to put an NHL team there.
Well, I dont know how they could stop anyone from constructing an NHL ready arena berklon, but they could sure stop an NHL team from ever calling it home. The leagues Constitution is very clear on the subject of territorial rights and despite the creation of new By-Laws (I believe its 13.8) by the league in the early 90's that pretend to usurp those guarantees (employed solely to white wash anti-trust issues) thats not a fight the NHL wants nor will they ever win it.
Oddly, the same two companies that popped up over the Maple Leaf Gardens - Ryerson/Loblaws legal chicanery are mentioned in this story; LiveNation & Global Spectrum as being "interested parties". Remember, MLSE dictated the terms of usage to Ryerson for the Gardens upper arena bowl that forbade them from competing for concerts after Ryerson went public with plans to employ said companies in the hopes of picking up some revenues visa-vie music & event bookings. MLSE came down on them like a ton of bricks over a piddling 4500 seat venue, a situation that wouldnt have made the least bit of difference to the ACC's fortunes one way or the other. By thwarting LN & GS they retain control on the market & dont give an inch. Love em or hate em, MLSE plays hardball & they play for keeps.
Well, I dont know how they could stop anyone from constructing an NHL ready arena berklon, but they could sure stop an NHL team from ever calling it home. The leagues Constitution is very clear on the subject of territorial rights and despite the creation of new By-Laws (I believe its 13.8) by the league in the early 90's that pretend to usurp those guarantees (employed solely to white wash anti-trust issues) thats not a fight the NHL wants nor will they ever win it.
Oddly, the same two companies that popped up over the Maple Leaf Gardens - Ryerson/Loblaws legal chicanery are mentioned in this story; LiveNation & Global Spectrum as being "interested parties". Remember, MLSE dictated the terms of usage to Ryerson for the Gardens upper arena bowl that forbade them from competing for concerts after Ryerson went public with plans to employ said companies in the hopes of picking up some revenues visa-vie music & event bookings. MLSE came down on them like a ton of bricks over a piddling 4500 seat venue, a situation that wouldnt have made the least bit of difference to the ACC's fortunes one way or the other. By thwarting LN & GS they retain control on the market & dont give an inch. Love em or hate em, MLSE plays hardball & they play for keeps.
KDB will come and disagree. I think this is not the whole story.
Is it true that the reason MLSE purchased the Ricoh Colliseum is because they didn't want it used as a competing concert venue to the ACC? According to the schedule on the website, the Ricoh Colliseum is used for Marlies, Royal Winter Fair, and Cirque du Soleil. There are a lot of nights with nothing whatsoever scheduled.
