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Markham, Ontario planning to build a 19,000 seat arena
A provocative move like that should put ya'll in real solid with the suits down at the bottom of the DVP, when & if you ever get around to applying to the NHL for a relo or expansion franchise in determining indemnification fee's... sadly, Markham just might fall for it.
Ahhhh... give Markham an NHL team and Toronto will want one too.. <Rimshot> Wakka wakka wakka.
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Originally Posted by Killion
Now suppose the new kids on the block decide to compete for 'A' Listers in getting into a bidding war with MLSE over Appearance Fee's & or Facility Discounts?... Maybe they think they can pack the joint with the likes of Corey Hart/Loverboy/Foot in Coldwater reunion shows or something. It just doesnt make any sense.
I'd buy that ticket! I'll call it "The Acid washed Denim Tour"
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Originally Posted by berklon
MLSE would try and stop this in any way possible - regardless if there's an attempt to put an NHL team there.
Fine. When he returns from his dinner at Catch on Market Street he can deal with my misguided opinions...
You Sir apparently dont wish to!.
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Originally Posted by force multiplier
Is it true that the reason MLSE purchased the Ricoh Colliseum is because they didn't want it used as a competing concert venue to the ACC? According to the schedule on the website, the Ricoh Coliseum is used for Marlies, Royal Winter Fair, and Cirque du Soleil. There are a lot of nights with nothing whatsoever scheduled.
Quite likely. The arena's been home to the Royal Winter Fair for decades. The ACC wouldve' been preferable if it wasnt for the "souvenirs" left behind by the hogs, cattle, goats, chickens, swans, hunters & jumpers and the Magic Unicorns used by Cirque de Soleil in their show Cavalia. Pretty sure they'd have accidentally like left a propane tanks valve wide open right next to an open flame and a skid of tarpaper during renovations.
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24
Would an AHL team really need a 19,000 seat arena?
Well, that is interesting. Getting an NHL-ready arena would eliminate one of the major barriers to the GTA getting a team.
That being said, it doesn't do anything about the 600 pound gorilla in the room, that being the Leafs just up and saying no to any attempt to relocate or expand in their back yard.
Newsflash; Markhams' already an amazing place, has been for decades. Sure it'd be great, but if you cant see a lot of Mr.Haney in this pipe dream then I suggest you go out & rent or buy the boxed set of Green Acres'. Read "Field of Schemes". Checkout Charles Wang. Steve Ellman. Markham doesnt need the grief. Now, if these guys were totally up-front?. No problem. Go for it.
Let's just assume the NHL moved in. Would Marham basically the Islanders to New York's Rangers?
That's what I was wondering. Wouldn't it be better for a team to move into North York or Scarborough district? Either distict has way more people than Markham and are within Toronto city limits IF the Maple Leafs allow it.
As far as the Islanders are concerned, they are much better off in Queens borough of NYC than in Nassau, due to more people in much smaller land mass. And the Isles are allowed into Queens.
Well, I dont know how they could stop anyone from constructing an NHL ready arena berklon, but they could sure stop an NHL team from ever calling it home. The leagues Constitution is very clear on the subject of territorial rights and despite the creation of new By-Laws (I believe its 13.8) by the league in the early 90's that pretend to usurp those guarantees (employed solely to white wash anti-trust issues) thats not a fight the NHL wants nor will they ever win it.
Oddly, the same two companies that popped up over the Maple Leaf Gardens - Ryerson/Loblaws legal chicanery are mentioned in this story; LiveNation & Global Spectrum as being "interested parties". Remember, MLSE dictated the terms of usage to Ryerson for the Gardens upper arena bowl that forbade them from competing for concerts after Ryerson went public with plans to employ said companies in the hopes of picking up some revenues visa-vie music & event bookings. MLSE came down on them like a ton of bricks over a piddling 4500 seat venue, a situation that wouldnt have made the least bit of difference to the ACC's fortunes one way or the other. By thwarting LN & GS they retain control on the market & dont give an inch. Love em or hate em, MLSE plays hardball & they play for keeps.
By-Law 36.4(c).
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Originally Posted by NHL By-Law 36.4(c)
(c) A proposed transfer of location receiving the affirmative votes of a majority of the Member Clubs present and voting shall be deemed to have been consented to by the League in the event that the prohibition on transfers recited in Section 4.2 of the Constitution is determined by counsel to the League specially retained for this purpose, based on all relevant factors, to be unlawful with respect to that proposed transfer.
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch
KDB will come and disagree. I think this is not the whole story.
One interesting twist here is the jurisdictional issue - whether a Leaf challenge to a hypothetical NHL approval under 36.4(c) would be heard in US or Canadian Courts, under US or Canadian Law, or both (especially if the Leafs are challenging the relocation of a US based team). I would guess that the primary challenge would be under the CCB and Ontario courts.
The CCB's preliminary advisory ruling that the NHL's relocation policy did not violate the Competition Act was based on By-Law 36 being in effect - simple majority rule and no single team veto.
The Leafs might be in a Catch-22 here. If they challenge By-Law 36 as being an invalid de facto amendment to the NHL Constitution (which would have required a unanimous vote), they risk By-Law 36 being invalidated, which could lead to the CCB ruling that the territorial restrictions of Section 4 violate the Competition Act and are thus unenforceable - the net result would be a team would be free to move to Markham with no vote, no veto, no restrictions, and no territorial rights fees (which were one of the considerations in the vote under 36.4).
That being said, it doesn't do anything about the 600 pound gorilla in the room, that being the Leafs just up and saying no to any attempt to relocate or expand in their back yard.
Which they sure enough will do. I'm of the opinion that the only way a second team plays in the GTA is if they play out of the ACC and MLSE gets their cut. Even then, I can't see it happening.
This guy is very foolish if he believes building an NHL arena automatically gets him a franchise. He does well if he carefully studies everything that has transpired in Hamilton. Seriously.
My congrats when/if this gets built but lol at Markham getting a nhl team.. A base population of 300000 to draw from.. I guess they can get support from other cow pastures such as Stouville Aurora.. The rest of GTA won't drive out there on a weeknight. Have you seen the traffic. You could walk from Toronto to Markham and get there faster than driving..
I guess it does have it's pluses though.. It's fairly close to Oshawa they'll support them.
I would guess that once you factor in the arena, the cost of a franchise, and the cost of making nice with the Leafs you would be talking about $900M-1B to put a franchise in TO. I really have to wonder how this makes sense when you may very well end up being hockey's version of the LA Clippers.
I can't see this actually being economically viable without an NHL team.
Sure, there is the possibility of hosting concerts, but who the F### wants to promote a concert in Markham Ontario? Sure, they could get an OHL team with ease, and probably an AHL team with some difficulty, but the Marlies can't even fill their 10,000 seat rink and are a horrible business. How's a non-leaf associated team going to do?
I can't see this actually being economically viable without an NHL team.
Sure, there is the possibility of hosting concerts, but who the F### wants to promote a concert in Markham Ontario? Sure, they could get an OHL team with ease, and probably an AHL team with some difficulty, but the Marlies can't even fill their 10,000 seat rink and are a horrible business. How's a non-leaf associated team going to do?
I would not say they could get a ohl with ease sure a current gta team may move there but i can't see a expanson team the main reason is teams in the gta do not have great support.As for the ahl maybe the marlies or bulldogs could mvoe there but like the ohl i can't see an expanson team now with that said maybe a echl team would be a ok fit in that area.
Is it true that the reason MLSE purchased the Ricoh Colliseum is because they didn't want it used as a competing concert venue to the ACC?
That's the understanding here on the rock. It was the real reason that we lost the Baby Leafs. Pretty sordid reason for a successful team to be taken away. Killing concert competition for ACC trumped loyalty to a city and its fans after 14 seasons.
I live in Scarborough and I'd be closer to the Markham aRena than the ACC.
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222
My congrats when/if this gets built but lol at Markham getting a nhl team.. A base population of 300000 to draw from.. I guess they can get support from other cow pastures such as Stouville Aurora.. The rest of GTA won't drive out there on a weeknight. Have you seen the traffic. You could walk from Toronto to Markham and get there faster than driving..
I guess it does have it's pluses though.. It's fairly close to Oshawa they'll support them.
The positioning of an arena in Markham would be smart in my opinion. You draw a crowd from Barrie, Markham and all the Toronto suburbs north and north east. I know if I was posted to CFB Borden I would probably get season tickets.
If they're going to have a second team in the GTA I'd rather it be on the west side of Toronto and not the east. I'd still rather the second team be in Kitchener...
But all of this doesn't matter since it'll be awhile (At least 5-10 years) before a team would move there anyway.
If they're going to have a second team in the GTA I'd rather it be on the west side of Toronto and not the east. I'd still rather the second team be in Kitchener...
But all of this doesn't matter since it'll be awhile (At least 5-10 years)
before a team would move there anyway.
I would not say they could get a ohl with ease sure a current gta team may move there but i can't see a expanson team the main reason is teams in the gta do not have great support.As for the ahl maybe the marlies or bulldogs could mvoe there but like the ohl i can't see an expanson team now with that said maybe a echl team would be a ok fit in that area.
ECHL was what I was thinking as well.
Who are the Leafs/Marlies' current ECHL affiliate? They could move a team to Markham (for the time being) and make them their new affiliate, which would reduce travel costs and could make the arena a big draw to Leaf fans in the area.
I think the Sabres are going to have a problem with any team near the lake, regardless of where.
I'm not completely sure, but IIRC the westside is growing a lot faster than the eastside of Toronto, would make more sense to put it there IMO. Anything in Toronto is going to have nothing but trouble getting an arena built not to mention a team though. This might get built but IMO it's a huge longshot for a second team in Toronto.
Just opinion but if theres going to be a second team in southern Ontario it'll have to be London or Kitchener, theres so many hurdles for just trying to get a team to come to southern Ontario, theres even more for Toronto. Everything else is will have to many problems dealing with Toronto and Buffalo. Like someone said if this arena gets built it might just become Copps 2.0
honestly... how many concerts could they attract? Consider the area around the ACC is undergoing a massive massive residential boom (within 1-2 blocks are a 67, 57, 35, 16 and 12 storey condo tower, a soon to be built 75 storey condo and a proposed twin 70 storey condo tower), I would think ACC would stand to draw more of the concerts.
I don't think the intention is to steal concerts from ACC but to supplement the area with another venue because the ACC isn't sufficient to serve the area for all the major concerts that want to play there. Super cool band wants to play in Toronto on Feb 6. ACC is booked with hockey; they can try Markham instead of a smaller venue or working their date around.
I would assume the ACC gets filled on a regular basis what with hockey, basketball and concerts.
One interesting twist here is the jurisdictional issue - whether a Leaf challenge to a hypothetical NHL approval under 36.4(c) would be heard in US or Canadian Courts, under US or Canadian Law, or both (especially if the Leafs are challenging the relocation of a US based team). I would guess that the primary challenge would be under the CCB and Ontario courts.
I'd think it should be, but it is possible that the Leafs could file suit in a United States court as the issue would be regarding the BoG and League vote. No worries, the Leafs would venue-shop.
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Originally Posted by kdb209
The CCB's preliminary advisory ruling that the NHL's relocation policy did not violate the Competition Act was based on By-Law 36 being in effect - simple majority rule and no single team veto.
The Leafs might be in a Catch-22 here. If they challenge By-Law 36 as being an invalid de facto amendment to the NHL Constitution (which would have required a unanimous vote), they risk By-Law 36 being invalidated, which could lead to the CCB ruling that the territorial restrictions of Section 4 violate the Competition Act and are thus unenforceable - the net result would be a team would be free to move to Markham with no vote, no veto, no restrictions, and no territorial rights fees (which were one of the considerations in the vote under 36.4).
I'm just thinking out loud...
New arena in Markham
Aging arena in Hamilton
Old arena in Quebec, being replaced by a new arena
Anyone think it is remotely possible if the NHL doesn't plant franchises in these areas that a new league could show up? All it could take are a couple of enterprising Canadians upset with the NHL...
