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Old
11-23-2011, 10:03 PM
  #1
Blitz
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Anaheim - Buffalo

The Ducks seem to be having major issues scoring enough goals (GF 40, GA 58)to win games, a problem that will compound if Selanne & Koivu retire after this season - meanwhile the Sabres have decent goal support but are giving up too many SOG (due to too many OD on the backend IMO), resulting in GA and also seem to be lacking in the finishing department (G), where it matters most.

To

RW Drew Stafford ($4M)
LW Tyler Ennis ($875K RFA)
D Jordan Leopold ($3M)
D Drew Scheistel ($750K RFA)
2012 2nd RND pick [CGY]

Total cap hit $8.625M

Ducks pick up a couple top-6 scoring forwards in Ennis & Stafford, a solid offensive d-man in Leopold & a top D prospect in Scheistel (as the cupboards look kinda bare in Anaheim) as well as a mid 2nd RND pick.

To

LW/C Bobby Ryan ($5.1M)
D Toni Lydman ($3M)

Total cap hit $8.1M

Sabres aquire a star forward who is currently struggling with the Ducks but more than capable of being an offensive juggernaut, as well as one of the best shot blocking d-men in the league in Toni (who never should have left IMO).

Thoughts?

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Old
11-23-2011, 10:04 PM
  #2
ImpressedDAHagent
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sabres get robbed.

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Old
11-23-2011, 10:40 PM
  #3
omglolnub
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Sabres have done the shift-a-winger-to-center experiment. No need to do it again. Getzlaf is the Center. Come on now. Also way too much given up.

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Old
11-23-2011, 11:16 PM
  #4
Myllz
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Your license to post trade proposals has officially been revoked.

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Old
11-23-2011, 11:37 PM
  #5
dkollidas
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How about we trade for a real center (I made a Ryan proposal, and it is true, we shouldn't trade for another guy who would be an experiment)

So how about this revisal...

To Pittsburgh:

LW- Tyler Ennis
RW- Drew Stafford
2012 1st round pick
D- Choice of Gragniani/Brennan/Schiestel

To Buffalo:

C-Jordan Staal


Gives Pittsburgh unreal depth at forward, and gives the Sabres a potential top-line center. Remember, Staal is only 23, and I believe within another year, he'll be putting up numbers like Kesler did last season. He's on pace for 40 goals, which likely won't happen with Crosby and Malkin back, but still almost at a ppg pace this season.

On two conditions:

1. Happens after this season

2. Crosby and Malkin stay healthy

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Old
11-23-2011, 11:49 PM
  #6
LGB24
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why does everyone throw ennis around like in every trade proposal? Everyone seems insistent on giving him up. He's got point per game potential he's gonna be a dynamite player in a few years. Sure he's a good trade piece but he's undervalued around this fan base.

If either of the above proposals went through we would be a worse team

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Old
11-24-2011, 12:01 AM
  #7
dkollidas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
why does everyone throw ennis around like in every trade proposal? Everyone seems insistent on giving him up. He's got point per game potential he's gonna be a dynamite player in a few years. Sure he's a good trade piece but he's undervalued around this fan base.

If either of the above proposals went through we would be a worse team
If they want to win the cup sometime soon, they do need a number one center.

Roy is solid. But look at the centermen for the past few cup winners

Boston- Kreji, Savard (injured), Bergeron, Seguin, Kelly, Peverly

Chicago- Toews, Sharp, Bolland

Pittsburgh- Crosby, Malkin, Staal

Detroit- Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula

Anaheim- Getzlaf, McDonald

Carolina- Staal

Tampa Bay- Lecavalier, Richards

The only team without an ELITE center was Boston, and they had Savard who was injured, but also had amazing depth at center and played a suffocating defensive style. You need elite centers to win the cup. The Sabres NEED an elite center. Even if it is a massive overpayment.

Getzlaf (26 years old), Eric Staal(27), Ryan Kesler (27), Niclas Backstrom (24), Zetterberg (31). I feel Jordan Staal (23) will be on this level. Let's not forget, he's got about 4 more seasons to develop into the type of players these guys are. And he will. These are the guys I'm looking at. Yes, no one wants to trade the "best player" in a trade, but in every trade, one team does trade the "best player" in the deal.

Roy is good, but he's not on the level of these other guys.

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Old
11-24-2011, 01:06 AM
  #8
ZZamboni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Your license to post trade proposals has officially been revoked.
The first thing that came to mind reading that proposal was OMG that is just whacked

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Old
11-24-2011, 01:23 AM
  #9
jfb392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LGB24 View Post
why does everyone throw ennis around like in every trade proposal? Everyone seems insistent on giving him up. He's got point per game potential he's gonna be a dynamite player in a few years. Sure he's a good trade piece but he's undervalued around this fan base.

If either of the above proposals went through we would be a worse team
Because he's another small forward that doesn't bring the physicality that this team needs and is one of the few top six pieces that management would likely want to move.

We won't trade Pominville, Roy, or Vanek as they are core parts.
Boyes wouldn't fetch a whole bunch and no one would really want Leino's contract at this moment.
So, that leaves Adam, Ennis, and Stafford as players that are likely expendable.

Adam actually has size and is capable of playing center, so unless we're getting someone comparable back, I think he stays.
His value would also be lower than Ennis', one would think, as he is not as proven.
Stafford also seems to be a core piece, but likely isn't as valuable as Ennis because he's been fairly mediocre so far in his NHL career outside of last season.
That leaves Ennis, who would likely be very valuable after scoring 49 points in his rookie season as a 21 year old.

As much as I like Ennis, I just don't know if he fits on this team anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
If they want to win the cup sometime soon, they do need a number one center.
And teams don't just trade their #1 centers, as they realize how important they are.

Perhaps you should invent a time machine and let the management know how important it is draft centers, since that is the easiest way to obtain them.
They don't seem to value the center position though, even though it is one of the most (if not the most) important position(s).
The ones that they do draft usually project to be bottom six guys.

To illustrate the problem, here's a list of players that projected to be a top six center drafted by the Sabres in the top two rounds over the past decade:
Jiri Novotny (1/22, 2001, bust)
Derek Roy (2/32, 2001, top six)
Marek Zagrapan (1/13, 2005, bust)
Luke Adam (2/44, 2008, looking good)

That's it.
The other 19 picks we've had in the top two rounds over that time period were used on ten wingers, eight defensemen, and one goalie.

Trading away our last three second round picks doesn't help matters, either.
As much as people like to claim that the second round doesn't produce players, our second rounds picks since the lockout have been successful:
Philipp Gogulla (2/48, 2005, bust)
Jhonas Enroth (2/46, 2006, NHL'er)
Mike Weber (2/57, 2006, NHL'er)
T.J. Brennan (2/31, 2007, making progress)
Drew Schiestel (2/59, 2007, I believe he'll be an NHL'er eventually)
Luke Adam (2/44, 2008, looking like he'll be an NHL'er)

Also, an incredibly sad fact: the last time we used a first round pick on a player that successfully became a top six center was 1987, when we selected Pierre Turgeon first overall.

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Old
11-24-2011, 01:28 AM
  #10
ZZamboni
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Jfb ... That is very eye opening, and sad.

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Old
11-24-2011, 01:47 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
Sabres have done the shift-a-winger-to-center experiment. No need to do it again. Getzlaf is the Center. Come on now. Also way too much given up.
I never said anything about Ryan playing centre - IMO he is not a centre AT ALL! I said he was a star... and could be an offensive juggernaut (he had 70+ pts. last year, 64 before that) - never once did the word "centre" come up.

Depth chart with Ryan:

Vanek-Roy-Pominville
Ryan-Adam-Boyes
Leino-Hecht-Tropp
Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta
X. McCormick, Ellis

Myers-Regehr
Ehrhoff-Lydman
Sekera-Weber
X. Grags


Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Your license to post trade proposals has officially been revoked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
The first thing that came to mind reading that proposal was OMG that is just whacked
Are you criticizing the value? I have talked to the duckies folks & Believe me, Anaheim would be looking for at least this to move Ryan, or Getzlaf - And it would still be worth it for Buffalo - Stafford(52 pts. last year) is a good player but streaky, Ennis (49 pts least year) is a good player, but undersized & unproven - Bobby Ryan (70+ pts. last year) is a star player playing on a team that really has no incentive to trade him for anything less than overpayment.

Anyone who thinks we are going to get a top-liner (centre or otherwise) without dismantling our top-6 is dreaming... any deal for a legit star is gonna cost us Ennis, Stafford, Roy. Pommer or a combination of more than one of those guys+ . The only value this team's roster has currently is in our top-6 forwards, top-4 d-men (2 of which have a NTC) & both goalies.

Go (re)voke yourselves.

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Old
11-24-2011, 01:51 AM
  #12
Corto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
To Pittsburgh:

LW- Tyler Ennis
RW- Drew Stafford
2012 1st round pick
D- Choice of Gragniani/Brennan/Schiestel

To Buffalo:

C-Jordan Staal


Gives Pittsburgh unreal depth at forward, and gives the Sabres a potential top-line center.
Whoa whoa whoa, Jordan Staal is an excellent defensive forward, but his numbers aren't really suffering from playing behind Sid and Malkin...
Because he ends up not being line-matched himself.

In short, he is not, and IMO never will be a top-line center.
A fantastic 3rd line center and a very good 2nd line center.

So yeah, to sum up, he's in no way worth Stafford+Ennis+Brennen+1st????

What. The. Hell.

Half the reason why he's more highly thought of than he really is, is his last name.

Stafford + 2nd = J. Staal, from my perspective.


Last edited by Corto: 11-25-2011 at 06:40 AM.
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Old
11-24-2011, 07:45 AM
  #13
omglolnub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
I never said anything about Ryan playing centre - IMO he is not a centre AT ALL! I said he was a star... and could be an offensive juggernaut (he had 70+ pts. last year, 64 before that) - never once did the word "centre" come up.

Depth chart with Ryan:

Vanek-Roy-Pominville
Ryan-Adam-Boyes
Leino-Hecht-Tropp
Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta
X. McCormick, Ellis
But why load up on the wings? Shoot, the team is plenty deep on the wings. Ryan would just wither on line 2 behind Vanek.

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Old
11-24-2011, 10:53 AM
  #14
thefifagod
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Just not worth it for us to add another winger. If we're trading it better be for a damn center because our wings are already good enough.

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Old
11-24-2011, 02:14 PM
  #15
Blitz
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Just not worth it for us to add another winger. If we're trading it better be for a damn center because our wings are already good enough.
We need offense in general (from our forwards) as much as we need a a centreman presently IMO, as Hecht's return will help our pivot situation for the time being. Stafford is not scoring & Ennis is not playing - and we are losing close games (ie: Boston last night). A guy like Ryan, or Iggy for example would help us out greatly in that department. One guy getting 60-70 pts. instead of needing 2-3 guys to produce the same amount as we currently do (3 balanced "scoring" lines). Any contribution from the 3rd line (checking/scoring line) after that would just gravy.

We are also in need of a defensive, shot-blocking d-man for the back-end to trim the SOG (avg'ing approx 30/game) down a bit as Ehrhoff, Leo, Grags & Sekera (<- to a lesser degree) are not shut-down guys & do not play the style of defense needed.

A guy like Toni Lydman, Andrew MacDonald, Brad Stuart, or even Greg Zanon could likely be had for a fair price (would love Volch or Orpik, but let's be realistic...) & would benefit this team's defense & our goaltenders greatly.

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Old
11-24-2011, 02:29 PM
  #16
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4 players an a pick for 2?

0/10 XBOXes.

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Old
11-24-2011, 02:39 PM
  #17
Blitz
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4 players an a pick for 2?

0/10 XBOXes.
2 for 2 would require us dealing Vanek & Sekera - doesn't really seem worthwhile does it? And I don't even have an XBOX!!!

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Old
11-24-2011, 04:01 PM
  #18
Sean McG
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Surely enough after you proposed this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Break on Twitter
The Anaheim Ducks are starting to get desperate--in the offseason teams were inquiring about Ryan and were told he's not available. (1/2)

With Selanne, Blake, Koivu all pending FA's, and the teams internal budget sources are telling me Bobby Ryan may be made available. (2/3)

The asking price for Ryan starts with two, young, top-6 forwards. Toronto and Buffalo are among the teams interested (3/3)
Take it for what it's worth, Hockey Break seems to be a legit source, he guys like Dreger and other insider types following him.

As for the trade, I think this is a very realistic package in terms of what it'd take to actually get him. I'd think about it, I absolutely love Ryan and think he's a superstar level player in the next 3-4 years (nothing groundbreaking really....) but he is definitely a winger, if the Sabres were going to package some of their best assets to get a first line player, I'd rather it be a legit center.

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Old
11-24-2011, 04:05 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkollidas View Post
How about we trade for a real center (I made a Ryan proposal, and it is true, we shouldn't trade for another guy who would be an experiment)

So how about this revisal...

To Pittsburgh:

LW- Tyler Ennis
RW- Drew Stafford
2012 1st round pick
D- Choice of Gragniani/Brennan/Schiestel

To Buffalo:

C-Jordan Staal


Gives Pittsburgh unreal depth at forward, and gives the Sabres a potential top-line center. Remember, Staal is only 23, and I believe within another year, he'll be putting up numbers like Kesler did last season. He's on pace for 40 goals, which likely won't happen with Crosby and Malkin back, but still almost at a ppg pace this season.

On two conditions:

1. Happens after this season

2. Crosby and Malkin stay healthy
How the hell is the difference between Staal and Stafford worth Ennis, 1st round pick, and a prospect? Ennis easily has 65+ point potential and Stafford can score 30+ goals again this year.

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Old
11-24-2011, 05:50 PM
  #20
struckbyaparkedcar
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Ryan centered Perry when Getz got hurt down the stretch, maybe he and Pominville could combine to be a first line center ^_^.

For reals though, he's the type of player we need and I'd overpay something fierce to get him, even if he's just another winger. Ideally, something could be worked out around Stafford+

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Old
11-24-2011, 07:46 PM
  #21
omglolnub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Ryan centered Perry when Getz got hurt down the stretch, maybe he and Pominville could combine to be a first line center ^_^.
Where's Goku to teach them the fusion technique?! Sorry, middle school called me back for a moment there

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Old
11-25-2011, 06:20 AM
  #22
SECRET SQUIRREL
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Roy, Stafford and whatever picks/prospects it takes for Getzlaf. Ryan is an excellent young power forward but we already have a first line RW and LW.

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Old
11-25-2011, 06:52 AM
  #23
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My question in all of this is can Ryan play RW? Because if he could Vanek/Roy/Ryan could be a pretty awesome line. Put pommer on line 2 to get Leino / Adam (or hecht) / pomminville. Maybe Pommer can get a spark out of leino, and we know Pomminville compliments Adams play quite well already. Might be an interesting thing to consider...

As for the Staal proposal I'm gonna go with a resounding NOOOOOOOOOOO WAY IN HELL! That's WAY too much to pay for a third line center....



Also with the Ryan deal, if we get him now and he does well for us we may be able to use him as part of a deal for a #1 center around the deadline.

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Old
11-25-2011, 07:04 AM
  #24
WhoIsJimBob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
Roy, Stafford and whatever picks/prospects it takes for Getzlaf. Ryan is an excellent young power forward but we already have a first line RW and LW.
Getzlaf is untouchable in Anaheim and there have been 0 rumblings that he's being shopped.

He's as likely to get moved as Vanek or Pominville are right now.

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Old
11-25-2011, 07:07 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Getzlaf is untouchable in Anaheim and there have been 0 rumblings that he's being shopped.

He's as likely to get moved as Vanek or Pominville are right now.
If they continue to underachieve that may change, who knows. I have my doubts that any of the big 3 are truely available but if the offer is good enough I am sure they would listen.

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