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Kassian? Foligno?

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Old
11-24-2011, 01:43 AM
  #1
Maximrules
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Kassian? Foligno?

I don't understand why this team recalls guys like Ellis and Tropp and not Kassian or Foligno, two of their higher prospects. Kassian and Foligno are tied for the Americans' lead in goal scoring, and Kassian leads the team in points.
They're both two future Sabres so why are they not getting a taste of the NHL with all of our injuries right now? I don't understand.

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11-24-2011, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximrules View Post
I don't understand why this team recalls guys like Ellis and Tropp and not Kassian or Foligno, two of their higher prospects. Kassian and Foligno are tied for the Americans' lead in goal scoring, and Kassian leads the team in points.
They're both two future Sabres so why are they not getting a taste of the NHL with all of our injuries right now? I don't understand.
To understand, you need to ask yourself. Would you accept the answer? And I'm not being flippant or taking you lightly.

I've seen you yell out Kassian a number of times on these boards. Would you agree you're not an NHL GM? Now, would you agree you're not an AHL coach? And finally would you agree you're not an NHL coach?

Don't you agree that those 3 professional hockey positions would be the best to determine who may or may not do well in the NHL on a call up basis? Or, they would determine that even if a player is developed enough for a call up try, they simply want him to develop even more.

Your lack of faith in those 3 professionals is why you don't and can't understand. Kassian AND Foligno will get a look. When and only when the GM and coaches are 100% sure they deserve or developed enough for a call up. Until you understand that, I guess I'll keep seeing your demands for Kassian or Foligno.

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11-24-2011, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
To understand, you need to ask yourself. Would you accept the answer? And I'm not being flippant or taking you lightly.

I've seen you yell out Kassian a number of times on these boards. Would you agree you're not an NHL GM? Now, would you agree you're not an AHL coach? And finally would you agree you're not an NHL coach?

Don't you agree that those 3 professional hockey positions would be the best to determine who may or may not do well in the NHL on a call up basis? Or, they would determine that even if a player is developed enough for a call up try, they simply want him to develop even more.

Your lack of faith in those 3 professionals is why you don't and can't understand. Kassian AND Foligno will get a look. When and only when the GM and coaches are 100% sure they deserve or developed enough for a call up. Until you understand that, I guess I'll keep seeing your demands for Kassian or Foligno.
First of all, you should be 100% certain about your facts before you make a claim, because I'm absolutely sure I have never posted ONCE on these boards and even mentioned Kassian's name.

Second, If I thought I knew I exactly what should be done, I wouldn't be asking this question and expecting a response. I'm only trying to figure out WHY the coaches haven't given them playing time, I'm NOT calling them out. I don't know so that is why I'm asking.
Don't try and make me look like a fool.

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11-24-2011, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximrules View Post
First of all, you should be 100% certain about your facts before you make a claim, because I'm absolutely sure I have never posted ONCE on these boards and even mentioned Kassian's name.

Second, If I thought I knew I exactly what should be done, I wouldn't be asking this question and expecting a response. I'm only trying to figure out WHY the coaches haven't given them playing time, I'm NOT calling them out. I don't know so that is why I'm asking.
Don't try and make me look like a fool.
Answer .... They are not ready, if they were, they would be up. The GM, and coaches know this. Is that an acceptable answer?

Also ... Well, if it isn't you (and I think I've seen you mention Kassian before), then it's a handful of others bringing up Kassian every other game. The reasons and answers are given, and yet, without fail, 2 games later, someone (sometimes the same people) asks AGAIN! It's incredible.

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11-24-2011, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Answer .... They are not ready, if they were, they would be up. The GM, and coaches know this. Is that an acceptable answer?

Also ... Well, if it isn't you (and I think I've seen you mention Kassian before), then it's a handful of others bringing up Kassian every other game. The reasons and answers are given, and yet, without fail, 2 games later, someone (sometimes the same people) asks AGAIN! It's incredible.
Then I apologize I'm not checking these boards every single day after after single game. You don't have to answer if you don't want to. And again, I have not, ever, posted about Kassian being called up. I may have mentioned him in regards to something else, but I have never even thought about why he hasn't been called up until tonight's game.

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11-24-2011, 02:27 AM
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In short, to give Kassian a full AHL season to play in a more prominent role.

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11-24-2011, 03:01 AM
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Why pick on Tropp? If his performance so far as a Sabre is any indication, he absolutely has a future with the team. His style of play is much needed for this roster. I'll be disappointed when Tropp goes back to Rochester, assuming he does.

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11-24-2011, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
Why pick on Tropp? If his performance so far as a Sabre is any indication, he absolutely has a future with the team. His style of play is much needed for this roster. I'll be disappointed when Tropp goes back to Rochester, assuming he does.
I'd say he's the last one back at this point (passing Ellis, who preceded him to Buffalo). Loved his game in the pre-season and the Traverse City tourney, and he's carried it through to his NHL performances.

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11-24-2011, 02:09 PM
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So I guess our coaches and GM are never wrong.Well, except for waiving pominville, trading for bernier, Rivet, Torres, Moore, and signing lalime and Thibault. Or how about not picking Briere over Drury.

The Sabres for whatever reason hate playing 18/19 year olds even though all the elite teams do. Kassian deserves to play, but our regime plays absolute jokes like Matt Ellis. I'm glad we have debunked the myth that if Matt Ellis plays we have a better record then without, the guy is absolutely horrible.

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11-24-2011, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximrules View Post
I don't understand why this team recalls guys like Ellis and Tropp and not Kassian or Foligno, two of their higher prospects. Kassian and Foligno are tied for the Americans' lead in goal scoring, and Kassian leads the team in points.
They're both two future Sabres so why are they not getting a taste of the NHL with all of our injuries right now? I don't understand.
How you watched Kassian and Foligno play in Rochester yet? I mean, their PLAY. Not Youtube videos of a fight or two. Not just looking at the stat sheet.

They're both first year AHL players. They have a lot to learn about how to play the game at this level. Calling a player up too early can seriously blow up their entire development. (See Stafford, Drew)

To be brutally honest, 99% of the people who want Kassian up here have never watched them play one minute of professional hockey outside of YouTube. I find it very arrogant that these folks crap all over the coaches and scouts that watch these guys every day and make these decisions.

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11-24-2011, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
How you watched Kassian and Foligno play in Rochester yet? I mean, their PLAY. Not Youtube videos of a fight or two. Not just looking at the stat sheet.

They're both first year AHL players. They have a lot to learn about how to play the game at this level. Calling a player up too early can seriously blow up their entire development. (See Stafford, Drew)

To be brutally honest, 99% of the people who want Kassian up here have never watched them play one minute of professional hockey outside of YouTube. I find it very arrogant that these folks crap all over the coaches and scouts that watch these guys every day and make these decisions.
Alright I want to explain something because I'm obviously not being clear enough.
I'm not calling out that one of them be called up, this thread was simply a question, not a demand for Kassian.

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11-24-2011, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FreddieBisco View Post
So I guess our coaches and GM are never wrong.Well, except for waiving pominville, trading for bernier, Rivet, Torres, Moore, and signing lalime and Thibault. Or how about not picking Briere over Drury.

The Sabres for whatever reason hate playing 18/19 year olds even though all the elite teams do. Kassian deserves to play, but our regime plays absolute jokes like Matt Ellis. I'm glad we have debunked the myth that if Matt Ellis plays we have a better record then without, the guy is absolutely horrible.
I agree with this.

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11-24-2011, 04:17 PM
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Kassian needs to be playing 18+ minutes a game instead of 10- so that he develops into the power forward we need. He's been playing well, hopefully he works hard this year and makes the team next year and can contribute.

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11-24-2011, 04:28 PM
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YES! I'm ecstatic that the Matt Ellis legend is finally being debunked. Guys like him may work hard and be all around good guys in the lockerroom but I would much prefer we avoid the "safe" option and give youngsters a chance. All that being said, I have no problem with who the young players are. If it's Tropp over Kassian, I'm fine with that. Clearly management saw something they liked in Tropp and a role for him to play with the team right now. He has stepped in and played very well for a fairly under the radar prospect. I'm fine with him playing. What I am not fine with is Matt Ellis taking the spot of a hit or miss young player.

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11-24-2011, 07:35 PM
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Seems like Teddy took a look at the boards and found this thread.

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11-24-2011, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by BuiltTagonTough View Post
Seems like Teddy took a look at the boards and found this thread.
Someone make one about a trade for Parise

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11-24-2011, 11:46 PM
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Kishire's comments are the crux of the matter regarding Kassian -- he wasn't at a point to be considered the first recall yet. Maturation is part of it and he's shown in Rochester that he's willing to take on a primary scoring role as requested by the organization, keep himself in games and not be part of shenanigans either on or off the ice. Tropp is farther along the development curve and has shown well in the role he's been asked to play as an effective energy player. Ellis is a known commodity in a 6-10 minute per night role on the fourth line -- he's not going to be stunted by not getting ToI since he's basically a finished product and he's not going to make rookie mistakes in those minutes. While not flashy, he tends to be an even player and reliable enough to not put his team at a disadvantage with either a penalty or ignoring the defensive side of his play.

With all the injuries and Kassian's solid play, he's the next guy to get the recall. Not sure how many more bodies have to hit the floor for Foligno to get the nod, but I would expect Szczechura and probably Whitmore are in line before him.

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11-25-2011, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
YES! I'm ecstatic that the Matt Ellis legend is finally being debunked. Guys like him may work hard and be all around good guys in the lockerroom but I would much prefer we avoid the "safe" option and give youngsters a chance. All that being said, I have no problem with who the young players are. If it's Tropp over Kassian, I'm fine with that. Clearly management saw something they liked in Tropp and a role for him to play with the team right now. He has stepped in and played very well for a fairly under the radar prospect. I'm fine with him playing. What I am not fine with is Matt Ellis taking the spot of a hit or miss young player.
Nobody actually thought Matt Ellis was the reason for the team's solid record with him in the lineup. It was just a funny statistic.

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11-25-2011, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalowing88 View Post
YES! I'm ecstatic that the Matt Ellis legend is finally being debunked. Guys like him may work hard and be all around good guys in the lockerroom but I would much prefer we avoid the "safe" option and give youngsters a chance. All that being said, I have no problem with who the young players are. If it's Tropp over Kassian, I'm fine with that. Clearly management saw something they liked in Tropp and a role for him to play with the team right now. He has stepped in and played very well for a fairly under the radar prospect. I'm fine with him playing. What I am not fine with is Matt Ellis taking the spot of a hit or miss young player.
What's the myth? Ellis does exactly what they need him to do -- he's a null out there for the few minutes of TOI he gets per night. He doesn't score, the other guys don't score. In the meantime, the kids get a chance to play in key situations and develop their game with the experience of first unit PP time, top 6 minutes, and playing in all situations while showing they can take coaching and round out their weaknesses. It's all part of the development cycle. Thrusting kids immediately into a dimished playing role tends to not be good for their reaching their potential (see guys like Gilbert Brule or James Sheppard for examples of talented high-end kids who got jacked up by being placed into a situation that they were not groomed for).

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11-25-2011, 12:29 AM
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Let's not act like Tropp is a bad prospect. He's definitely got 3rd line potential, and is closer to that than Kassian/Foligno are to reaching their potential. Tropp may not be a glamorous prospect, but he's a future Sabre too.

And Ellis was never recalled--he was never sent down. They kept him as a #13 (which makes sense--let the kids get playing time in Rochester rather than press box time in Buffalo). So that's why he's playing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
What's the myth? Ellis does exactly what they need him to do -- he's a null out there for the few minutes of TOI he gets per night. He doesn't score, the other guys don't score. In the meantime, the kids get a chance to play in key situations and develop their game with the experience of first unit PP time, top 6 minutes, and playing in all situations while showing they can take coaching and round out their weaknesses. It's all part of the development cycle. Thrusting kids immediately into a dimished playing role tends to not be good for their reaching their potential (see guys like Gilbert Brule or James Sheppard for examples of talented high-end kids who got jacked up by being placed into a situation that they were not groomed for).
Actually, you may be selling Ellis a wee bit short.

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Next, a look at shot differential per 60 minutes of 5-on-5 play. Naturally, it's much better for your team to have more shots at the opponent's goal than on your own. Some familiar names among the leaders and, hey, look at Matt Ellis!
RANK PLAYER TEAM POS. SHOT DIFF/60
1. Pavel Datsyuk Detroit C 17.8
2. Henrik Zetterberg Detroit C 16.8
3. Matt Ellis Buffalo LW 15.4
4. Chris Kunitz Pittsburgh LW 14.4
5. Gabriel Landeskog Colorado LW 14.1
6. Tyler Kennedy Pittsburgh RW 12.8
7. Alexander Steen St. Louis LW 12.6
8. Jordan Staal Pittsburgh C 12.6
9. Brad Marchand Boston C 12.4
10. Patrice Bergeron Boston C 12.2
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=381196

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11-25-2011, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Let's not act like Tropp is a bad prospect. He's definitely got 3rd line potential, and is closer to that than Kassian/Foligno are to reaching their potential. Tropp may not be a glamorous prospect, but he's a future Sabre too.

And Ellis was never recalled--he was never sent down. They kept him as a #13 (which makes sense--let the kids get playing time in Rochester rather than press box time in Buffalo). So that's why he's playing.



Actually, you may be selling Ellis a wee bit short.



http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=381196
Where did I sell him short? He's not scoring when he's out there and the other team isn't scoring much when he's out there. That's not a bad thing for a guy making peanuts as a fill-in.

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11-25-2011, 12:46 AM
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Where did I sell him short? He's not scoring when he's out there and the other team isn't scoring much when he's out there. That's not a bad thing for a guy making peanuts as a fill-in.
I meant he might be a little bit better than a null.

(to be perfectly honest, I was just looking for an excuse to post that stat.)

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