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The Trade Proposal Thread ‎2011 (part 7)

View Poll Results: Yay or Nay?
Yes 11 47.83%
No 12 52.17%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-25-2011, 05:54 PM
  #501
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by KingAvtsin View Post
2 2nds are worth a 1rst.
nhl12?

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Old
12-25-2011, 08:47 PM
  #502
Ginu
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If we're looking forward to the next few years, our depth chart looks like this...

LW: Pacioretty, Kostitsyn, ?, ?
RW: Cole, Leblanc, Gallagher, White
C: Plekanec, Eller, Bournival, ?
D: Markov, Subban, Gorges, Beaulieu, Emelin, Diaz, Tinordi
G: Price
Jury's out: Kristo, Avtsin and Palushaj.

Who's available? Cammalleri, Gomez, Gionta, Gill, Kaberle and Moen.

Who else may be available? Now I have Plekanec at center, but if we finish in a top 5 position and we have a chance to draft a Grigorenko or Galchenyuk, does Plekanec become expendable? I've also not listed Desharnais here for the same reason. Plekanec may be able to land us some pretty solid top 6 talent on the wings.

So this is what I have if we draft a #1 center:

Pacioretty - Grigorenko - Cole
Kostitsyn - Eller - x
Leblanc - Bournival - Gallagher
x - x - White

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu

What do we need:
1-Top 6 left/right winger.
2-Veteran left winter on the 4th line
3-Veteran centre on the 4th line
4-One more top 6 forward as insulation until some of our prospects get up.

Can we convert our available players + Plekanec + Desharnais into those assets? Surely this can't be too hard.

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Old
12-25-2011, 08:56 PM
  #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
If we're looking forward to the next few years, our depth chart looks like this...

LW: Pacioretty, Kostitsyn, ?, ?
RW: Cole, Leblanc, Gallagher, White
C: Plekanec, Eller, Bournival, ?
D: Markov, Subban, Gorges, Beaulieu, Emelin, Diaz, Tinordi
G: Price
Jury's out: Kristo, Avtsin and Palushaj.

Who's available? Cammalleri, Gomez, Gionta, Gill, Kaberle and Moen.

Who else may be available? Now I have Plekanec at center, but if we finish in a top 5 position and we have a chance to draft a Grigorenko or Galchenyuk, does Plekanec become expendable? I've also not listed Desharnais here for the same reason. Plekanec may be able to land us some pretty solid top 6 talent on the wings.

So this is what I have if we draft a #1 center:

Pacioretty - Grigorenko - Cole
Kostitsyn - Eller - x
Leblanc - Bournival - Gallagher
x - x - White

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu

What do we need:
1-Top 6 left/right winger.
2-Veteran left winter on the 4th line
3-Veteran centre on the 4th line
4-One more top 6 forward as insulation until some of our prospects get up.

Can we convert our available players + Plekanec + Desharnais into those assets? Surely this can't be too hard.
You wanna get rid of plekanec hoping a prospect becomes better than him? IMO you keep plekanec, put eller as 3rd C and get a real first line center or hope if we draft high enough, the player will become one.

The what we do need is wrong.

We have cammalleri, gionta, cole, kostitsyn, pacioretty as top 6 wingers, you wanna trade our best center in hopes of getting a 6th top 6 winger?

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Old
12-25-2011, 09:24 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You wanna get rid of plekanec hoping a prospect becomes better than him? IMO you keep plekanec, put eller as 3rd C and get a real first line center or hope if we draft high enough, the player will become one.

The what we do need is wrong.

We have cammalleri, gionta, cole, kostitsyn, pacioretty as top 6 wingers, you wanna trade our best center in hopes of getting a 6th top 6 winger?
I wasn't talking about next season. I was talking 2-3 years down the road.

I'm suggesting we need some turnover in our veterans and Cammalleri and Gionta aren't pulling their weight. I'd keep Cammalleri, Cole, Kostitsyn and Pacioretty obviously but Cammalleri may bring something back that'll help us get younger.

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Old
12-25-2011, 09:50 PM
  #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You wanna get rid of plekanec hoping a prospect becomes better than him? IMO you keep plekanec, put eller as 3rd C and get a real first line center or hope if we draft high enough, the player will become one.

The what we do need is wrong.

We have cammalleri, gionta, cole, kostitsyn, pacioretty as top 6 wingers, you wanna trade our best center in hopes of getting a 6th top 6 winger?
Unless we trade a few guys like Plekanec we won't be getting a top 5 pick. It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are worried the prospect won't be good enough and sure enough he's not.

When we draft I think our choice will be Galchenyuk, Aberg or Reilly which will be alright but not great.

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Old
12-25-2011, 10:46 PM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
If we're looking forward to the next few years, our depth chart looks like this...

LW: Pacioretty, Kostitsyn, ?, ?
RW: Cole, Leblanc, Gallagher, White
C: Plekanec, Eller, Bournival, ?
D: Markov, Subban, Gorges, Beaulieu, Emelin, Diaz, Tinordi
G: Price
Jury's out: Kristo, Avtsin and Palushaj.

Who's available? Cammalleri, Gomez, Gionta, Gill, Kaberle and Moen.

Who else may be available? Now I have Plekanec at center, but if we finish in a top 5 position and we have a chance to draft a Grigorenko or Galchenyuk, does Plekanec become expendable? I've also not listed Desharnais here for the same reason. Plekanec may be able to land us some pretty solid top 6 talent on the wings.

So this is what I have if we draft a #1 center:

Pacioretty - Grigorenko - Cole
Kostitsyn - Eller - x
Leblanc - Bournival - Gallagher
x - x - White

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu

What do we need:
1-Top 6 left/right winger.
2-Veteran left winter on the 4th line
3-Veteran centre on the 4th line
4-One more top 6 forward as insulation until some of our prospects get up.

Can we convert our available players + Plekanec + Desharnais into those assets? Surely this can't be too hard.
Leblanc and White natural position is center

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Old
12-25-2011, 11:02 PM
  #507
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Lions999 View Post
Leblanc and White natural position is center
I find LeBlanc can do both pretty eaqually well. His hockey sense helps him at center and his puck posession and baord play allow him to be effective on the wing, though he needs about 15lbs in the next 2-3 years to maximise his offense. White is a notch better on the wing as he can crash and bang more without the extra defensive responsibility.

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Old
12-25-2011, 11:05 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
nhl12?
Most years in the draft you see 2 x 2nd traded for a 1st or a 2nd and 3rd for a 1st.

It depends on the depth of the draft and needs of the teams in the mix.

I would say if we had a 2nd in the 40-45 range and got another around 50, we could probably flip both for a 16-20(at best) 21-24(probable) 24-28(at worst) 1st rounder.

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Old
12-25-2011, 11:29 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Lions999 View Post
Leblanc and White natural position is center
Both players will likely not play center in the NHL, or less of it.

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Old
12-26-2011, 12:48 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Unless we trade a few guys like Plekanec we won't be getting a top 5 pick. It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. We are worried the prospect won't be good enough and sure enough he's not.

When we draft I think our choice will be Galchenyuk, Aberg or Reilly which will be alright but not great.
Galchenyuk would be great. He'll be a steal if he falls out of the top 5.

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Old
12-26-2011, 08:12 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Lions999 View Post
Leblanc and White natural position is center
Both Bournival and Leblanc are versatile and can play anywhere..

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Old
12-26-2011, 10:03 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Both Bournival and Leblanc are versatile and can play anywhere..
Every time I see this 2 names together, I keep seeing a great 3rd line in a few years. Add another french vet like Vermette and it would make for a great 3rd line.

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Old
12-26-2011, 10:29 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
Every time I see this 2 names together, I keep seeing a great 3rd line in a few years. Add another french vet like Vermette and it would make for a great 3rd line.
If we have 6 forwards better than LeBlanc in 3-4 years we'll be a heavy cup contender.

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Old
12-26-2011, 01:16 PM
  #514
MasterDecoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Most years in the draft you see 2 x 2nd traded for a 1st or a 2nd and 3rd for a 1st.

It depends on the depth of the draft and needs of the teams in the mix.

I would say if we had a 2nd in the 40-45 range and got another around 50, we could probably flip both for a 16-20(at best) 21-24(probable) 24-28(at worst) 1st rounder.
if you say so. can't say i remember anything like that but i'll take your word for it.

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Old
12-26-2011, 01:32 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Most years in the draft you see 2 x 2nd traded for a 1st or a 2nd and 3rd for a 1st.

It depends on the depth of the draft and needs of the teams in the mix.

I would say if we had a 2nd in the 40-45 range and got another around 50, we could probably flip both for a 16-20(at best) 21-24(probable) 24-28(at worst) 1st rounder.
No you don't. A second round pick is what team uses to move UP in the draft. What you see every year is a team giving their 1rst + their 2nd to move up about ten spots (and less than that the close you get to the top ten). In 2007 the Sharks gave 13th overall pick + 2nd round to get 9th overall (so that's 4 spots)so there is no way any team is giving a 1rst for two 2nd.

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Old
12-26-2011, 02:05 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
No you don't. A second round pick is what team uses to move UP in the draft. What you see every year is a team giving their 1rst + their 2nd to move up about ten spots (and less than that the close you get to the top ten). In 2007 the Sharks gave 13th overall pick + 2nd round to get 9th overall (so that's 4 spots)so there is no way any team is giving a 1rst for two 2nd.
You wouldn't trade the 30th for the 31st and 32nd? It all depends on what picks and who's available.

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Old
12-26-2011, 02:22 PM
  #517
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When we moved up to get Tinordi - 5 spots we gave up a 2nd and got a 4th.

When SJ moved up 13th - 9th spot they gave up a 2nd and a 3rd to get Logan Couture - for Eller.

Here's a record of all the recent drafts:

http://www.prosportstransactions.com...ears/index.htm

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Old
12-26-2011, 02:41 PM
  #518
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You wouldn't trade the 30th for the 31st and 32nd? It all depends on what picks and who's available.
I would do it. But noone would trade 31st and 32nd for 30th so it's not a reallistic scenario. What he meant is that teams would give 25th for 40th and 50th and what you usually see is something like 25th= 32nd+ 45th. It does cost quite a bit to move up in the first round , if it didn't every team would do it.

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12-26-2011, 03:38 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
I would do it. But noone would trade 31st and 32nd for 30th so it's not a reallistic scenario. What he meant is that teams would give 25th for 40th and 50th and what you usually see is something like 25th= 32nd+ 45th. It does cost quite a bit to move up in the first round , if it didn't every team would do it.
Exactly, that's what I'm getting at: two 2nds can be worth a 1st! It just depends on what picks and who's available.

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Old
12-26-2011, 07:23 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
No you don't. A second round pick is what team uses to move UP in the draft. What you see every year is a team giving their 1rst + their 2nd to move up about ten spots (and less than that the close you get to the top ten). In 2007 the Sharks gave 13th overall pick + 2nd round to get 9th overall (so that's 4 spots)so there is no way any team is giving a 1rst for two 2nd.
I'm pretty sure that most drarts, 2 2nds will get you a 1st...obviously if it's the 31st and 32nd pick it should get you a mid(13-17th or 15-20th) 1st rounder.

I would say all things being equal that most drafts a 40th and 50th pick is worth about an 20th. There are a lot of variables, like what teams are involved and their needs plus the depth of the draft in both rounds as well as the depth of prospects for both teams. The example you're using is moving up into the top 10. Obviously to get a top 10 pick would take more than 2 2nds, but it may get you a 20th to 25th.

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Old
12-27-2011, 07:32 AM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'm pretty sure that most drarts, 2 2nds will get you a 1st...obviously if it's the 31st and 32nd pick it should get you a mid(13-17th or 15-20th) 1st rounder.

I would say all things being equal that most drafts a 40th and 50th pick is worth about an 20th. There are a lot of variables, like what teams are involved and their needs plus the depth of the draft in both rounds as well as the depth of prospects for both teams. The example you're using is moving up into the top 10. Obviously to get a top 10 pick would take more than 2 2nds, but it may get you a 20th to 25th.
IMHO in this draft, we should try that if we get a 2nd pick. I'd love to see this team get 2 (or more) 1st rounders and add to our blue chippers Tinordi/Beaulieu but use those picks for some forward depth

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Old
12-27-2011, 11:11 PM
  #522
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Wait till Markov comes back and propose to send him to the Flyers -since the need a quality D to replace Pronger-for Bourdon and Marshall.

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12-28-2011, 12:13 AM
  #523
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Wait till Markov comes back and propose to send him to the Flyers -since the need a quality D to replace Pronger-for Bourdon and Marshall.
Scratch that, if Markov is good, we keep him. Kaberle has lower caphit and I say we flip him to Philly IF possible for a modest return.

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12-28-2011, 06:33 AM
  #524
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Wait till Markov comes back and propose to send him to the Flyers -since the need a quality D to replace Pronger-for Bourdon and Marshall.
If I was to even consider trading Markov 1-it would not consider trading him inside the conference 2-it would require a lot more than a couple of B prospects

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Old
12-28-2011, 07:39 AM
  #525
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If I was to even consider trading Markov 1-it would not consider trading him inside the conference 2-it would require a lot more than a couple of B prospects
If we're considering trading Markov then this year is irrelevant. And next year the existing conference structure is no more and we don't play Philadelphia anymore than Anaheim, San Jose or Phoenix.

So the only teams you should be against trading him to are Toronto, Buffalo, Boston, Ottawa, Tampa or Florida.

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