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04-11-2012, 05:47 PM
  #551
sk84fun_dc
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
I understand why you are reading that the way you are but the performance bonuses that apply to the players cap hit are in the $3 mil per neighborhood and apply until they are no longer attainable during the season.

Are there other league paid bonuses that do not apply to the cap? Yes but that is not what is being discussed here.

Kuznetsov's cap hit is going to be around $3.9 mil and only roughly $900k of that is actual salary.

Sk8, can you clarify this some more please?
lol, finally back near a computer and caught up a little yesterday; come back today and see this mess of a discussion

You are correct as is Drake from what I have skimmed through. And yes, impossible to know if there will be a bonus cushion in the future and what it will look like.

There are League paid bonuses for winning those awards in Schedule B, but the team and player/agent can negotiate additional Schedule B performance bonuses for a player for winning awards. Schedule B team paid individual bonuses max is 2 million aggregate.

Salary and signing bonus max for 2010 draft class: $900,000
Schedule A max total: $850,000
Schedule B max total of team/player negotiated schedule B bonuses: $2,000,000

Max cap hit ELC for a 2010 draft pick: $3,750,000

(including salary, signing bonus and Schedule A and B (team paid) bonuses)

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04-11-2012, 06:29 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
And you know this how exactly? If you have a crystal ball and know how the next CBA negotiations are going to play out don't be so selfish and let us all know please...
now you are shifting the goalposts quite a bit. but regardless, the bonus cushion in its current form is not a point of contention for NHLPA or the league, so it is likely to stay. it doesn't change the total salary cap year-to-year, and works in the player's favor if the salary goes up from season-to-season, and also gives the owners an option to defer the cap hit until next season which is something they like. i would bet heavily on the bonus cushion staying or becoming even bigger, rather than shrinking.

secondly, if kuznetsov signs for next season, he is more likely to sign under the current cba, not next year's cba. the next cba may not be ready until august/september/october.


also, here's quoting capgeek. it's a bit of a gamble that kuznetsov doesn't sweep all the major awards, but still quite unlikely. there are always trades that bring in cap room, and injured players often hit the LTIR to avoid the cap hit.

http://capgeek.com/faq/what-s-a-bonus-overage.php

What's a bonus overage?

When the bonus cushion is in affect, teams can exceed the salary cap in performance bonuses by up to 7.5 percent of the salary cap's upper limit. Should performance bonuses actually earned at season's end push them past the salary cap's upper limit, the excess bonuses earned will be carried over as a penalty to the team's cap payroll the following season.

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04-11-2012, 08:57 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
now you are shifting the goalposts quite a bit. but regardless, the bonus cushion in its current form is not a point of contention for NHLPA or the league, so it is likely to stay. it doesn't change the total salary cap year-to-year, and works in the player's favor if the salary goes up from season-to-season, and also gives the owners an option to defer the cap hit until next season which is something they like. i would bet heavily on the bonus cushion staying or becoming even bigger, rather than shrinking.

secondly, if kuznetsov signs for next season, he is more likely to sign under the current cba, not next year's cba. the next cba may not be ready until august/september/october.


also, here's quoting capgeek. it's a bit of a gamble that kuznetsov doesn't sweep all the major awards, but still quite unlikely. there are always trades that bring in cap room, and injured players often hit the LTIR to avoid the cap hit.

http://capgeek.com/faq/what-s-a-bonus-overage.php

What's a bonus overage?

When the bonus cushion is in affect, teams can exceed the salary cap in performance bonuses by up to 7.5 percent of the salary cap's upper limit. Should performance bonuses actually earned at season's end push them past the salary cap's upper limit, the excess bonuses earned will be carried over as a penalty to the team's cap payroll the following season.
Kuznetsov would be a fool to sign an NHL deal before the new CBA is finalized as he could easily find himself locked out or on strike until a deal is negotiated.

And if you want to assume a bonus cushion will exist in the next CBA and that it will function the same way then fine but I am not. My understanding is that the owners/league want to rein in things financially again and IMO this seems like an obvious place to start doing just that as no bonus cushion means more money applied to a cap hit than is actually paid out in the end.

So no bonus cushion means Kuznetsov's cap hit would include the max schedule A and B bonuses and they would apply until they were no longer attainable, which is usually the vast majority of the season.

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04-11-2012, 09:22 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
thats fine so long as you can guarantee that semin is a 50pt nhl player from here out and his days as a 35-40 goal nhl player with 50 goal upside is not merely on hiatus.

i think that is a terrible mistake.

from where i sit the caps need more offense and not less of it. they need ovechkin, backstrom, semin and kuznetsov. they need johansson. they need green, wideman, carlson AND orlov. not less of them.

you will be horrified when he lands in detroit and starts pounding 40 goals again.

edit: i find it interesting that the more structured he becomes under hunter and the more clutch he becomes the more the anti semin among us want him gone. even hunter singled him out of recent for his play down the stretch. hunter tries to get backstrom going and puts him with semin. semin makes a brilliant play to get him his first goal.

it looks to me like some here are over semin and have been for a while and they dont care to see any change because its a closed case in their mind....next?
King of posts right here.

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04-11-2012, 09:46 PM
  #555
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Yeah, I have to think bringing Semin back if you're not in the Suter/Parise type of market is a significant consideration.

I'm not willing to gamble that he's a 50 point guy, though I would want to see a deal in the 5-6 range if possible. Green needs a cut too.

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04-11-2012, 10:35 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Kuznetsov would be a fool to sign an NHL deal before the new CBA is finalized as he could easily find himself locked out or on strike until a deal is negotiated.

And if you want to assume a bonus cushion will exist in the next CBA and that it will function the same way then fine but I am not. My understanding is that the owners/league want to rein in things financially again and IMO this seems like an obvious place to start doing just that as no bonus cushion means more money applied to a cap hit than is actually paid out in the end.

So no bonus cushion means Kuznetsov's cap hit would include the max schedule A and B bonuses and they would apply until they were no longer attainable, which is usually the vast majority of the season.
Really? Nothing stopping him from back over to Russia for year if there is a lockout. Plus rookie contracts in CBA negotiations are down on their list of priorities, IMO, so might be a good move to sign now.

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04-11-2012, 10:48 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by newfr4u View Post
nah. rookies don't usually get that type of icetime, and the caps are already quite stocked at wing. i guess we don't know who the coach might be next season, but if it's anyone like bruce/dale, he'll likely see under 14 minutes/game.
he is our best RW other than semin and obviously semin doesnt play with OV much plus he could be our 2nd line center if hunter decides to do that, dont doubt kuznetsov because he's a rookie, if your a good player you'll get ice time

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04-11-2012, 10:50 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
If we can get 50 points from this soft, defensively oblivious Russian for $4 million, why pay twice that to Semin for the same "impact"?
boy you sure hate russians

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Old
04-12-2012, 09:10 AM
  #559
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Really? Nothing stopping him from back over to Russia for year if there is a lockout. Plus rookie contracts in CBA negotiations are down on their list of priorities, IMO, so might be a good move to sign now.
Agreed but those are decisions that are usually made after it becomes clear that there is little common ground and it is going to take a while to get a deal done. That doesn't usually happen right away.

It isn't like a lockout or strike happens and then everyone flees to Europe right away. And even getting to that point can sometimes take a while. And it usually starts with those who don't have NHL deals already in place.

If I am Kuznetsov I wait until a certain date and if a new CBA isn't in place I sign a one year deal in the KHL for as much money as I can get. No way do I sign an NHL deal with the strong possibility of labor strife and then have to sign a much lesser KHL deal because they know as soon as the CBA is done I am leaving.

And I'd also strongly consider a 2 year KHL deal because I wouldn't want to have my rookie NHL season coincide with an Olympic year and risk my place on the team if I really struggle to adapt to the NHL game. If I stay in the KHL for those 2 years I am a certain lock for an important Olympic tournament on my home soil unless I am injured.

From the Caps perspective the timing of the CBA and Olympics couldn't be worse as far as getting Kuznetsov to the NHL IMO.

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04-12-2012, 10:28 AM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Agreed but those are decisions that are usually made after it becomes clear that there is little common ground and it is going to take a while to get a deal done. That doesn't usually happen right away.

It isn't like a lockout or strike happens and then everyone flees to Europe right away. And even getting to that point can sometimes take a while. And it usually starts with those who don't have NHL deals already in place.

If I am Kuznetsov I wait until a certain date and if a new CBA isn't in place I sign a one year deal in the KHL for as much money as I can get. No way do I sign an NHL deal with the strong possibility of labor strife and then have to sign a much lesser KHL deal because they know as soon as the CBA is done I am leaving.

And I'd also strongly consider a 2 year KHL deal because I wouldn't want to have my rookie NHL season coincide with an Olympic year and risk my place on the team if I really struggle to adapt to the NHL game. If I stay in the KHL for those 2 years I am a certain lock for an important Olympic tournament on my home soil unless I am injured.

From the Caps perspective the timing of the CBA and Olympics couldn't be worse as far as getting Kuznetsov to the NHL IMO.
Smart post.

A lot of factors why he wouldn't sign. They better get that CBA done quick.

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04-12-2012, 04:12 PM
  #561
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If I'm Kuznetsov, one important issue to me is probably the prospect of trying to get my NHL career off to a good-looking start, and I'm thinking I'm pretty unlikely to do that given how unoffensive Hunter hockey looks like right now.

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04-12-2012, 04:50 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by polyorchid View Post
If I'm Kuznetsov, one important issue to me is probably the prospect of trying to get my NHL career off to a good-looking start, and I'm thinking I'm pretty unlikely to do that given how unoffensive Hunter hockey looks like right now.
I don't know. Hunter hockey has been downright offensive at times.

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04-12-2012, 05:06 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by polyorchid View Post
If I'm Kuznetsov, one important issue to me is probably the prospect of trying to get my NHL career off to a good-looking start, and I'm thinking I'm pretty unlikely to do that given how unoffensive Hunter hockey looks like right now.
so, you think kuznetsov would prefer a none guaranteed contract, minor league or worse facilities and 3rd world travel? just becaues hunter is a defense first coach? truely?

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04-13-2012, 10:23 AM
  #564
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so, you think kuznetsov would prefer a none guaranteed contract, minor league or worse facilities and 3rd world travel? just becaues hunter is a defense first coach? truely?
No, I don't think those things.

I know next to nothing about the business aspects of the KHL and the NHL as well for that matter. So I defer to everyone else on those topics for the most part.

Moving to a team that's clearly not conducive to massive amounts of production, however, is one relevant factor. It's relevant to how much leverage he can get on contract negotiations in the future (because stats are relevant there, for better or worse), as well as to how much fame and personal glory he can expect to achieve (because stats are definitely relevant there), and just to how much fun he can expect to have.

Might be that there other factors that massively outweigh that one for all I know and make it seem almost like it doesn't even exist, relatively speaking, but in reality, it exists.

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04-13-2012, 10:30 AM
  #565
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No, I don't think those things.

I know next to nothing about the business aspects of the KHL and the NHL as well for that matter. So I defer to everyone else on those topics for the most part.

Moving to a team that's clearly not conducive to massive amounts of production, however, is one relevant factor. It's relevant to how much leverage he can get on contract negotiations in the future (because stats are relevant there, for better or worse), as well as to how much fame and personal glory he can expect to achieve (because stats are definitely relevant there), and just to how much fun he can expect to have.

Might be that there other factors that massively outweigh that one for all I know and make it seem almost like it doesn't even exist, relatively speaking, but in reality, it exists.
Well, he would be a fool to do anything with the NHL until the new CBA is settled.

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04-13-2012, 12:02 PM
  #566
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I guess McPhee can go to Moscow now. Series over!

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04-13-2012, 12:58 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by dpj0122 View Post
Well, he would be a fool to do anything with the NHL until the new CBA is settled.
why do you think that? the cap is likely to go down, which could affect rookie deals. he's better off signing for an amount out of a larger bucket than a smaller one, and get grandfathered into one of the clauses about rookie service time.

by far the largest concern for the owners with respect to prospects like Kuzya is not burning the ELC years on a player who is not playing in the NHL. that particular clause of the CBA is totally up for grabs.

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04-13-2012, 01:00 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by polyorchid View Post
No, I don't think those things.

I know next to nothing about the business aspects of the KHL and the NHL as well for that matter. So I defer to everyone else on those topics for the most part.

Moving to a team that's clearly not conducive to massive amounts of production, however, is one relevant factor. It's relevant to how much leverage he can get on contract negotiations in the future (because stats are relevant there, for better or worse), as well as to how much fame and personal glory he can expect to achieve (because stats are definitely relevant there), and just to how much fun he can expect to have.

Might be that there other factors that massively outweigh that one for all I know and make it seem almost like it doesn't even exist, relatively speaking, but in reality, it exists.
noone who hasn't played in the NHL yet, is in any position to dictate what kind of system and coach he'll play for, especially not a 20 year old kid. his rights belong to washington. he is not going anywhere else.

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04-13-2012, 01:26 PM
  #569
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it's true he has all the leverage on his side and will almost certainly get the full bonus package ELC, but i also think he's going to be very surprised by the level of play in the NHL. i suspect these young russian kids are getting a daily dose of KHL propaganda--and really, who can blame the russians for trying to sell their players on the home league--but as a consequence i bet, unless they come here to play juniors, they don't really understand how much tougher NA hockey really is.

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04-13-2012, 01:32 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
so, you think kuznetsov would prefer a none guaranteed contract, minor league or worse facilities and 3rd world travel? just becaues hunter is a defense first coach? truely?
of course not, thats why he stays in Russia

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04-17-2012, 07:54 PM
  #571
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Any update on what happened with George in Russia?

Also, i find it interesting that it was said his biggest dream was to play in the NHL when he was drafted.

Vid:


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04-17-2012, 07:59 PM
  #572
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Heh Bob almost slipped and said the knock on him and a lot of Russians.

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04-17-2012, 08:11 PM
  #573
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Any update on what happened with George in Russia?

Also, i find it interesting that it was said his biggest dream was to play in the NHL when he was drafted.

Vid:

George didn't go last I heard. The trip was planned but then cancelled when the Caps actually made the loffs.

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04-19-2012, 01:37 PM
  #574
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plysenkov: Evgeny Kuznetsov. Today. Riga. Guess, where he will play next season? #caps #khl



@dchesnokov: According to @plysenkov, Kuznetsov closely follows the #Caps series against the #Bruins; always wears a #Caps hat training with the Rus team


Last edited by Langway: 04-19-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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04-19-2012, 01:43 PM
  #575
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Andrey Osadchenko ‏ @AOsadchenko Close
According to multiple sources this is what Kuznetsov said a few mins ago at Team Russia's practice. #WorldChampionship #Caps #KuzyaWatch

Andrey Osadchenko ‏ @AOsadchenko Close
This is just in. Evgeny Kuznetsov: I made a decision where I'm gonna continue my career long time ago. I just can't make it public yet

And then the Pavel Lysenkov tweets. I'd love to guess, but I really don't even have a clue.

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