Russian names on the Conn Smythe? Well it was zero when Ovechkin was drafted. And Malkin wasn't the captain and leader of his team when he did it. You want someone with Hockey-blood? Don't look too far.
Given their contracts I would rather have Hall right now than Ovechkin. Plus one is only going up, and one is likely only going down. Ovy will not score 65 goals again. He might not get 50 again. We'll see what Hall can do.
Given their contracts I would rather have Hall right now than Ovechkin. Plus one is only going up, and one is likely only going down. Ovy will not score 65 goals again. He might not get 50 again. We'll see what Hall can do.
ya, pretty much sums it up.
The thing is price tag is a huge issue, reality is Ovy is looking like a gross contract at the moment. He is playing like a 35 goal 80 point guy who gets 9.5 mill. No thanks.
I'd honestly take Hall with all things considered. I've always thought Ovechkin was overrated and it's starting to show that he's not as hard to shut down as people thought. And as others have said, when you look at Ovechkin's cap hit, it's a terrible deal. The only player in the NHL that's good enough to make that is Crosby.
You guys realize that Ovechkin hasn't been the Ovechkin of 06-07 for a few years now, right? Yes, he is better when he is playing at his peak, but he doesn't play at his peak for some reason. Considering contracts and Ovechkin's inability to motivate his team in the playoffs...I'm thinking its really close, despite Ovechkin being a far superior scorer so far.
A few years now? Ovechkin finished 7th in league scoring last year. The year before that he wrapped up his 3rd straight Lester B Pearson season. Finished tied for 2nd in scoring despite playing 10 fewer games than Henrik Sedin and Sidney Crosby who had 3 more points. Ovechkin has had a slow 20 games by his standards. This is typical HFboards (and hockey world) of judging completely on what have you done for me lately.
I'm as big a Hall fan as any Oiler fan, but this one isn't even remotely close. Alex Ovechkin is a generational talent. When he retires, probably will be considered one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.
Also, for those doubting Ovechkin in the playoffs. He's got the 2nd best goals per game average in the playoffs of all time right now and the best PPG in the playoffs of any player currently in the league. One guy can only do so much. It's not his fault he's had a bunch of no shows on his team.
A few years now? Ovechkin finished 7th in league scoring last year. The year before that he wrapped up his 3rd straight Lester B Pearson season. Finished tied for 2nd in scoring despite playing 10 fewer games than Henrik Sedin and Sidney Crosby who had 3 more points. Ovechkin has had a slow 20 games by his standards. This is typical HFboards (and hockey world) of judging completely on what have you done for me lately.
I'm as big a Hall fan as any Oiler fan, but this one isn't even remotely close. Alex Ovechkin is a generational talent. When he retires, probably will be considered one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.
Also, for those doubting Ovechkin in the playoffs. He's got the 2nd best goals per game average in the playoffs of all time right now and the best PPG in the playoffs of any player currently in the league. One guy can only do so much. It's not his fault he's had a bunch of no shows on his team.
Well, It is hard to argue, I think you are overstating him though. You honestly look at a guy like Mike Green and his stats are just as impressive that last 4 years. The SE is week defensivly and that is a all star offensive team. Add in Ovy disapearing in the playoffs, the olympics ect and 9.5 mill.
Also, what do you think Halls upside is. Cause I think you just described it. Will he reach it? hard to say, but I think he pots 50 a few times in his career.
Ovechkin finished 7th in league scoring last year. The year before that he wrapped up his 3rd straight Lester B Pearson season. Finished tied for 2nd in scoring despite playing 10 fewer games than Henrik Sedin and Sidney Crosby who had 3 more points.
Ovechkin has had a slow 20 games by his standards. This is typical HFboards (and hockey world) of judging completely on what have you done for me lately.
I'm as big a Hall fan as any Oiler fan, but this one isn't even remotely close. Alex Ovechkin is a generational talent. When he retires, probably will be considered one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.
I disagree. My money is he ends up as an elite player who probably ends up averaging around 35-40 goals over his career. Not generational, and not one of the greatest of all time though. He's good, and can still be dominant, but he's not ever going to score 65 goals again
Well, It is hard to argue, I think you are overstating him though. You honestly look at a guy like Mike Green and his stats are just as impressive that last 4 years. The SE is week defensivly and that is a all star offensive team. Add in Ovy disapearing in the playoffs, the olympics ect and 9.5 mill.
Also, what do you think Halls upside is. Cause I think you just described it. Will he reach it? hard to say, but I think he pots 50 a few times in his career.
Maybe you missed my edit about his playoff performance. But it's elite. No way can you get around that.
I don't think Hall's upside is anything close to Ovechkin's to be honest. Ovechkin at his best has been a 110+ point player. We'd be lucky to see Hall hit 90 and I think we should all be absolutely thrilled if that happened.
A few years now? Ovechkin finished 7th in league scoring last year. The year before that he wrapped up his 3rd straight Lester B Pearson season. Finished tied for 2nd in scoring despite playing 10 fewer games than Henrik Sedin and Sidney Crosby who had 3 more points. Ovechkin has had a slow 20 games by his standards. This is typical HFboards (and hockey world) of judging completely on what have you done for me lately.
I'm as big a Hall fan as any Oiler fan, but this one isn't even remotely close. Alex Ovechkin is a generational talent. When he retires, probably will be considered one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.
Also, for those doubting Ovechkin in the playoffs. He's got the 2nd best goals per game average in the playoffs of all time right now and the best PPG in the playoffs of any player currently in the league. One guy can only do so much. It's not his fault he's had a bunch of no shows on his team.
Where did you get this stat from? I admit, I didn't realize his playoffs stats where so good.
Again, hard to argue, I think you are not admitting his weakness though. Stacked team, easy div, 9.5 mill, and yes, what have you done for me lately.
Also, you are talking as if hall is some run of the mill player. Do you not think he will be elite? the guy was drafted #1. Two time Memorial cup MVP. No reason Hall can't be a great player. Ovy is good, but he is no Gretz or Mario, and ya, he isn't even Crosby.
A few years now? Ovechkin finished 7th in league scoring last year. The year before that he wrapped up his 3rd straight Lester B Pearson season. Finished tied for 2nd in scoring despite playing 10 fewer games than Henrik Sedin and Sidney Crosby who had 3 more points. Ovechkin has had a slow 20 games by his standards. This is typical HFboards (and hockey world) of judging completely on what have you done for me lately.
I'm as big a Hall fan as any Oiler fan, but this one isn't even remotely close. Alex Ovechkin is a generational talent. When he retires, probably will be considered one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.
Also, for those doubting Ovechkin in the playoffs. He's got the 2nd best goals per game average in the playoffs of all time right now and the best PPG in the playoffs of any player currently in the league. One guy can only do so much. It's not his fault he's had a bunch of no shows on his team.
Sorry but 1 amazing season doesn't equate to best goal-scorer of all time. He was allowed to double-shift all he wanted. His shot total was almost 100 higher than the next closest (that's a lot). He was basically allowed to puck hog. Washington ended the season with 94 points.
AO at his best is not a team player. AO at his best is a superstar who likes the spotlight on him him him.
Don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but if I have my choice about who to build a team around. It's not AO.
Well I agree, not sure what you mean by lights out though.
you don't think Hall will have a great career?
Bottom line Ovy might end up as good a Jagr when it is all said and done. A true great, but not a gretz, mario, Orr type generational talent. And again, not even a Crosby/Yzerman level.
Sorry but 1 amazing season doesn't equate to best goal-scorer of all time. He was allowed to double-shift all he wanted. His shot total was almost 100 higher than the next closest (that's a lot). He was basically allowed to puck hog. Washington ended the season with 94 points.
AO at his best is not a team player. AO at his best is a superstar who likes the spotlight on him him him.
Don't get me wrong, he's a great player, but if I have my choice about who to build a team around. It's not AO.
I didn't say best goal-scorer of all time. I said one of the best. And that's not a stretch at all.
Interestingly enough that 65 goal season wasn't his best in terms of offensive production. That season would have been 09-10 where he was on pace for 124 points. You know... 18 months ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil
Well I agree, not sure what you mean by lights out though.
you don't think Hall will have a great career?
Bottom line Ovy might end up as good a Jagr when it is all said and done. A true great, but not a gretz, mario, Orr type generational talent. And again, not even a Crosby/Yzerman level.
I would say Crosby and Ovechkin are generational talents for this generation of hockey players.
And I absolutely think Hall will have a great career. Me taking Ovechkin in this quesiton says absolutely nothing about Taylor Hall. I think Hall will be one of the most explosive and dominant wingers in the game at his best. I just think people are selling Alex Ovechkin drastically short based on a not stellar first 20 games.
Have you seen him play since he got benched? I have and its not good, he isnt hitting anybody, he sure as hell isnt skating like he used to, he takes 30 second shifts instead of his usual 1:30 minute shifts, he shows zero passion...zero. He hasnt looked good for a couple seasons now (he wasnt bad last year, but he certainly wasnt his usual dominant self, thats for sure). He's looked even worse this year than last, and he started to suck even worse right after he got benched....hmm, coincidence?
And the bff comment had nothing to do with what your talking about, if you dont know what i'm talking about, then this conversation is over i guess.
That's fine, I really don't feel like arguing Ovechkin vs Hall anyway, it's completely absurd. All I'd really have to do is take it to the main board with a poll to expose your outrageous bias anyway, but I'm not going to litter this board with nonsense
I didn't say best goal-scorer of all time. I said one of the best. And that's not a stretch at all.
Interestingly enough that 65 goal season wasn't his best in terms of offensive production. That season would have been 09-10 where he was on pace for 124 points. You know... 18 months ago?
I would say Crosby and Ovechkin are generational talents for this generation of hockey players.
And I absolutely think Hall will have a great career. Me taking Ovechkin in this quesiton says absolutely nothing about Taylor Hall. I think Hall will be one of the most explosive and dominant wingers in the game at his best. I just think people are selling Alex Ovechkin drastically short based on a not stellar first 20 games.
I don't think Ovechkin plays the style that will keep him successful once he starts getting older.
He probably will stay an elite player for the next 5-6 years, but likely not much longer thereafter.
A few years now? Ovechkin finished 7th in league scoring last year. The year before that he wrapped up his 3rd straight Lester B Pearson season. Finished tied for 2nd in scoring despite playing 10 fewer games than Henrik Sedin and Sidney Crosby who had 3 more points. Ovechkin has had a slow 20 games by his standards. This is typical HFboards (and hockey world) of judging completely on what have you done for me lately.
I'm as big a Hall fan as any Oiler fan, but this one isn't even remotely close. Alex Ovechkin is a generational talent. When he retires, probably will be considered one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.
Also, for those doubting Ovechkin in the playoffs. He's got the 2nd best goals per game average in the playoffs of all time right now and the best PPG in the playoffs of any player currently in the league. One guy can only do so much. It's not his fault he's had a bunch of no shows on his team.
While I'm inclined to think the same way as you, there does exist the possibility that Ovechkin goes the way of Kovalchuk (they both have similar attributes). Not to say that's a bad thing, Kovalchuk's still an excellent player, but since he's been asked to play a more balanced game, his numbers have dropped considerably. He's also never really been able to accomplish much in the postseason.
True, Hall doesn't have Ovechkin's talent level. But then again, neither does Toews, and I'm pretty sure McPhee would at least listen if Chicago called him up offering Toews for Ovechkin.
That's fine, I really don't feel like arguing Ovechkin vs Hall anyway, it's completely absurd. All I'd really have to do is take it to the main board with a poll to expose your outrageous bias anyway, but I'm not going to litter this board with nonsense
Hay mang, Hall has a much better chance of leading his team to the Holy Grail than OV. We can talk about stats all we want, but in the end only 1 stat matters.
Have you seen him play since he got benched? I have and its not good, he isnt hitting anybody, he sure as hell isnt skating like he used to, he takes 30 second shifts instead of his usual 1:30 minute shifts, he shows zero passion...zero. He hasnt looked good for a couple seasons now (he wasnt bad last year, but he certainly wasnt his usual dominant self, thats for sure). He's looked even worse this year than last, and he started to suck even worse right after he got benched....hmm, coincidence?
And the bff comment had nothing to do with what your talking about, if you dont know what i'm talking about, then this conversation is over i guess.
If MacLean chose this year's Hall over this year's Ovechkin, it's not an insane claim at all. OV has completely checked out. He's not the dominating player he once was, and who knows if he'll ever get it back.
If MacLean chose this year's Hall over this year's Ovechkin, it's not an insane claim at all. OV has completely checked out. He's not the dominating player he once was, and who knows if he'll ever get it back.
Ovechkin could post a 65 point season this year and I'd wager Hall would be hard pressed to eclipse that. Ever. And that's not to knock Hall. Putting up those numbers in this league is extremely difficult; the fact that OV could do that and be considered a failure as a result is a testament to the fact that he's on a whole different plain of existence.
A few years now? Ovechkin finished 7th in league scoring last year. The year before that he wrapped up his 3rd straight Lester B Pearson season. Finished tied for 2nd in scoring despite playing 10 fewer games than Henrik Sedin and Sidney Crosby who had 3 more points. Ovechkin has had a slow 20 games by his standards. This is typical HFboards (and hockey world) of judging completely on what have you done for me lately.
I'm as big a Hall fan as any Oiler fan, but this one isn't even remotely close. Alex Ovechkin is a generational talent. When he retires, probably will be considered one of the greatest goal scorers of all time.
Also, for those doubting Ovechkin in the playoffs. He's got the 2nd best goals per game average in the playoffs of all time right now and the best PPG in the playoffs of any player currently in the league. One guy can only do so much. It's not his fault he's had a bunch of no shows on his team.
7th in scoring last year. Great, that still doesn't compare to what he was a few years prior. Guess who else used to be near the top in scoring. Marian Gaborik, Ilya Kovalchuk, Lecavalier, etc. Still great players, but not generational. Ovechkin is settling into that tier (above Lecavalier obviously) rather than the upper tier we thought he would be for his entire career. Why do I say that? If you're considered one of the top 2 players in the world and you come out and are 7th in scoring, that's a let down. You'd think Ovechkin would have busted his ass to get back into the top 3, but he's went the opposite direction. That shows something about his character to me. I think if he had the desire to bounce back, he would have trained his ass off in the summer and came into this season at the top of his game, not the worst he's ever been. The fact remains that even though OV is still one of the best scorers in the world, he hasn't been earning his salary for over a year now.
7th in scoring last year. Great, that still doesn't compare to what he was a few years prior. Guess who else used to be near the top in scoring. Marian Gaborik, Ilya Kovalchuk, Lecavalier, etc. Still great players, but not generational. Ovechkin is settling into that tier (above Lecavalier obviously) rather than the upper tier we thought he would be for his entire career. Why do I say that? If you're considered one of the top 2 players in the world and you come out and are 7th in scoring, that's a let down. You'd think Ovechkin would have busted his ass to get back into the top 3, but he's went the opposite direction. That shows something about his character to me. I think if he had the desire to bounce back, he would have trained his ass off in the summer and came into this season at the top of his game, not the worst he's ever been. The fact remains that even though OV is still one of the best scorers in the world, he hasn't been earning his salary for over a year now.
Ya, I am starting to believe a lot in the, played on a offensive team, in a easy div and was given the opportunity to rack up points hypothesis a lot. I recal that year he had 65 goals, if the Caps Where up 6-0 Ovy was still on the ice every second shift and doing every thing possible to get another one.
I think he is in the Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Thornton class of NHL players. Great, but not generational. and most importantly not worth 9.5 mill.
Ovechkin could post a 65 point season this year and I'd wager Hall would be hard pressed to eclipse that. Ever. And that's not to knock Hall. Putting up those numbers in this league is extremely difficult; the fact that OV could do that and be considered a failure as a result is a testament to the fact that he's on a whole different plain of existence.
You don't think Hall will get over 65 points in his career? I think he is a 80-90 point guy year in and out in the making.
You don't think Hall will get over 65 points in his career? I think he is a 80-90 point guy year in and out in the making.
65 points as a ceiling for Hall might be a little low, but there's no way he's a 80-90 point player. That's elite and I don't think Hall has the tools to crack that category. I'd love to be surprised.
Out of curiosity, which Oilers tend to be the partiers? Besides Khabi, who like's their drink a bit too much?
I don't think anyone wants to go there.
for everyone who is saying Ovi is now overrated and becoming a no heart stereotypical Russian player there is an equal amount of people overrating the talent Hall has.
you may say we overvalue ovi for what he has done in the past. at least he's done it. I hate to overvalue a player on what he might do in the future.
