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Perry Pearn agreed to be a scout

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Old
11-23-2011, 09:35 PM
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Perry Pearn agreed to be a scout

more detail to come

edit: just saw he his scouting Jets-Caps game.

http://www.985sports.ca/hockey/nouve...ps-108878.html

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11-23-2011, 09:48 PM
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I'll save everyone who is to post here sometime...

...on behalf on the majority of the posters "Why the hell is he a pro-scout if he couldn't even coach? He likes soft players, great that's what we need more soft players! We're doomed for mediocrity for the next 10 years...Gauthier Gainey "

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11-23-2011, 10:04 PM
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I saw Pearn and Gauthier discussing things at the Place Ville Marie in the food court on saturday. Thought it was funny they were doing this there.

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11-23-2011, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I saw Pearn and Gauthier discussing things at the Place Ville Marie in the food court on saturday. Thought it was funny they were doing this there.
PG: Whatcha eatin?
PP: I'm between Kojax or Sukiyaki
PG: Sukiyaki special is awesome, and its less than 10 bucks
PP: Oooo McDonalds!
PG: Just take Sukiyaki so I can have your egg rolls!

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11-23-2011, 11:17 PM
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sure is a weird deal.

Fire the guy , basically blame him for teams woes .

Then give him a scouting job? and accept his intel?


LOL I wonder what Gauthier would do if Molson fired him and offered him a scout job?


Last edited by Mike8: 11-23-2011 at 11:30 PM.
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11-23-2011, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
sure is a weird deal.

Fire the guy , basically blame him for teams woes .

Then give him a scouting job? and accept his intel?


LOL I wonder what Gauthier would do if Molson fired him and offered him a scout job?
This isn't weird at all. Pearn still has a contract with the team. In most instances where a coach has been fired, unless it's for some egregious act or utter incompetence, the coach subsequently scouts for the club for the duration of that contract or until they choose to move on.

In this instance, it's clear the club still respect Pearn. They didn't fire him because he's incompetent. It was a shake-up. So it makes perfect sense for Pearn to continue working in some capacity with the organisation.

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11-23-2011, 11:45 PM
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This isn't weird at all. Pearn still has a contract with the team. In most instances where a coach has been fired, unless it's for some egregious act or utter incompetence, the coach subsequently scouts for the club for the duration of that contract or until they choose to move on.

In this instance, it's clear the club still respect Pearn. They didn't fire him because he's incompetent. It was a shake-up. So it makes perfect sense for Pearn to continue working in some capacity with the organisation.
I don't think i can agree.

Was he running our power play?How many 2 many men penalties have we took after he left?
Did he have anything to do with that?


I think the Habs did hang Pearn out (yes), but i think it could be more to do with they feel GUILT.

Pearn is he going to get the Oil Kings head coach job in Edmonton he could have took ,instead re-signed with Habs only to get canned weeks later? NO

Is he going to walk into another NHL town anytime soon(this yr) and find a asst coach job? NO


I think Gauthier offered him the scout job out of guilt .

It was a low class move period , which many others more respected and higher up than me and you agree,it was low class.


Last edited by Habaneros: 11-23-2011 at 11:57 PM.
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11-23-2011, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
This isn't weird at all. Pearn still has a contract with the team. In most instances where a coach has been fired, unless it's for some egregious act or utter incompetence, the coach subsequently scouts for the club for the duration of that contract or until they choose to move on.

In this instance, it's clear the club still respect Pearn. They didn't fire him because he's incompetent. It was a shake-up. So it makes perfect sense for Pearn to continue working in some capacity with the organisation.

Exactly, he is being paid so do you want him to sit home and make money doing nothing, or would you rather you at least got some of your money's worth? He is a well respected guy around the league, also been around awile, i'm sure he won't be a terrible scout

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11-24-2011, 12:02 AM
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I don't think i can agree.
Frankly, you seem confused. You seem to be arguing that Pearn shouldn't have been fired. Fine, I don't mind if you hold that opinion. This discussion is about his new job, which is that of a scout for the club. You seem to be under the impression that this is a weird move. My post asserted that it is not weird at all: in fact, it is common place in the NHL.

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11-24-2011, 12:04 AM
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Frankly, you seem confused. You seem to be arguing that Pearn shouldn't have been fired. Fine, I don't mind if you hold that opinion. This discussion is about his new job, which is that of a scout for the club. You seem to be under the impression that this is a weird move. My post asserted that it is not weird at all: in fact, it is common place in the NHL.


Mike , name me 5 asst coaches that were fired and took scout jobs with the same club in last 5-10 years.

If it's "common place" , it should be easy .

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11-24-2011, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I saw Pearn and Gauthier discussing things at the Place Ville Marie in the food court on saturday. Thought it was funny they were doing this there.
Gauthier met Pearn during his break.


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11-24-2011, 01:06 AM
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I don't think i can agree.

Was he running our power play?How many 2 many men penalties have we took after he left?
Did he have anything to do with that?


I think the Habs did hang Pearn out (yes), but i think it could be more to do with they feel GUILT.

Pearn is he going to get the Oil Kings head coach job in Edmonton he could have took ,instead re-signed with Habs only to get canned weeks later? NO

Is he going to walk into another NHL town anytime soon(this yr) and find a asst coach job? NO


I think Gauthier offered him the scout job out of guilt .

It was a low class move period , which many others more respected and higher up than me and you agree,it was low class.
This seems to be a bit of a stretch, to say the least.

The day Pearn was "removed", Gauthier stated that he would continue to work for the club in some capacity. It's not like they terminated his contract and tried to make him into a scape goat, only the media and fans made that jump.

And Mike is right that this isn't unheard of. When the Islanders fired Gordon last year he spent the rest of the season employed as a "special advisor" to Garth Snow.

Why would a veteran like Gauthier feel guilty about deciding to make a small shakeup after a serious losing streak? It's part of his job.

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11-24-2011, 01:12 AM
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Mike , name me 5 asst coaches that were fired and took scout jobs with the same club in last 5-10 years.

If it's "common place" , it should be easy .
I don't like it when people toss up these challenges. I shouldn't have to do research for you just because you're unaware of common practice in the NHL.

Nevertheless, and because it is so very easy and commonplace, here is a quick list. Note: I see no need to restrict this to assistant coaches, since a coach is a coach, whether they be an assistant, associate, or head coach.

Hitchcock - became a scout for the Flyers after being fired; became a scout for the Jackets after being fired

Dave Lewis - in DET

Walt Kyle - in ANA (late '90s)
Don Hay - in ANA (late '90s) -- both assistant coaches

Guy Charron - relieved as head coach in ANA, only to be brought back as assistant coach (more of a 'slap in the face' it would seem)

Tom Watt - in ANA (early 2000s)

Jim Playfair - fired in CGY as head coach and came back as assistant coach

Holmgren - his first time around in PHI, he was fired and remained with the club as a scout

Note: the above is off the top of my head, except coaches in ANA's system (they have a nice page at nhl.com)

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11-24-2011, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I don't like it when people toss up these challenges. I shouldn't have to do research for you just because you're unaware of common practice in the NHL.

Nevertheless, and because it is so very easy and commonplace, here is a quick list. Note: I see no need to restrict this to assistant coaches, since a coach is a coach, whether they be an assistant, associate, or head coach.

Hitchcock - became a scout for the Flyers after being fired; became a scout for the Jackets after being fired

Dave Lewis - in DET

Walt Kyle - in ANA (late '90s)
Don Hay - in ANA (late '90s) -- both assistant coaches

Guy Charron - relieved as head coach in ANA, only to be brought back as assistant coach (more of a 'slap in the face' it would seem)

Tom Watt - in ANA (early 2000s)

Jim Playfair - fired in CGY as head coach and came back as assistant coach

Holmgren - his first time around in PHI, he was fired and remained with the club as a scout

Note: the above is off the top of my head, except coaches in ANA's system (they have a nice page at nhl.com)

Mike,


thanks for the list, and i do appreciate you taking the time to dig and for the debate.


Saying that ,

Hitchcock - was a scout for the Flyers for how long after he was fired by the Flyers? Answer: less than 3 weeks.So i can't say Kenny was more of a scout , only on paper .


Charron- interesting you mention him, and i want to thank you for doing so , as it caused me to dig deeper and see, Pierre Gauthier did this before!!!!!

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/apr/10/sports/sp-49739


Charron believed he could have been the right man for the job and expressed disappointment that he won't be given a chance to continue. He said he was undecided about whether to accept Gauthier's offer to remain with the club as an assistant coach.



Dave Lewis -Detroit indeed did bring him back as a scout after firing him from the head coach pos , but for less than a season was he a scout for Detroit , as Boston hired him as head coach .


Hay and Kyle -i do remember them getting fired, but it slips my mind if they we're hired back as scouts as to how long they stuck around as scouts with Ducks?....


At any rate, i did look up the definition of "common place".
Noun: A usual or ordinary thing.



Even using the list you gave me,(Gauthier did Pearn and Charron) in my book atleast i can't say "common place" is accurate .A weird deal or rare occurrence way more so, than it is "common place" IMHO.



Saying that, i also notice that anytime a person is brought back, they only last less than one season , 98% of the time .As i say , i feel it's more of a GUILT thing bringing them back, and i'll lay donut's down Pearn won't be in MTL org next season ,odds say that's the right bet to make .


Last edited by Habaneros: 11-24-2011 at 02:44 AM.
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11-24-2011, 02:47 AM
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Even using the list you gave me,(Gauthier did Pearn and Charron) in my book atleast i can't say "common place" is accurate .A weird deal or rare occurrence way more so, than it is "common place" IMHO.
Considering that list included a decent number of names, and my 'research' consisted of looking at one team's history page (which was entirely incomplete) and the rest going off the top of my head ... yes, indeed it is common place. That's a pretty big list, considering the above.

It's simple, really: people in the NHL are there for a reason. They know the sport. They've been professionals in the sport for a long, long time. Anyone that makes it to NHL assistant, associate or head coach has been involved in the sport on a major level for at least a decade+. Their opinion has value. Very rarely are such professionals fired for ineptitude or egregious behaviour. In the vast majority of cases, individuals are fired for 'fit' reasons, or for the sake of change. That doesn't make these individuals any less insightful or any less knowledgeable. Their insights may be utilised better in a different capacity, and so strong organisations will use them in those other capacities.

Professional organisations do not make decisions based on feeling guilty. With all due respect, that is a juvenile position.

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11-24-2011, 03:12 AM
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We should have him scout the Swiss league, since he liked putting Diaz out there so much.

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11-24-2011, 03:51 AM
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Considering that list included a decent number of names, and my 'research' consisted of looking at one team's history page (which was entirely incomplete) and the rest going off the top of my head ... yes, indeed it is common place. That's a pretty big list, considering the above.

It's simple, really: people in the NHL are there for a reason. They know the sport. They've been professionals in the sport for a long, long time. Anyone that makes it to NHL assistant, associate or head coach has been involved in the sport on a major level for at least a decade+. Their opinion has value. Very rarely are such professionals fired for ineptitude or egregious behaviour. In the vast majority of cases, individuals are fired for 'fit' reasons, or for the sake of change. That doesn't make these individuals any less insightful or any less knowledgeable. Their insights may be utilised better in a different capacity, and so strong organisations will use them in those other capacities.

Professional organisations do not make decisions based on feeling guilty. With all due respect, that is a juvenile position.


Common place is seeing the sun shine 250-275 days out of 365 a year (every year on avg)over a 15 year time period .

Common place is seeing the Bell Centre sold out night after night with 21,273 for YEARS.

Common place is seeing Leafs not win Stanley Cup


Not common place is seeing people get re hired shortly after being fired, by the same employer in the NHL over a 15 YEAR time period .

Reason i say this is we're talking 6-8 people??on a list you did provide me , which 2 of them was done by Gauthier himself(Pearn and Charron).These people got re hired after being fired by the same employer in the NHL over a 15 YEAR time period ,which is a very small fraction of a percentile ,over a large period of time .

Mike , that is why i say"weird" or rare occurrence, it simply is not ordinary or("aka") commonplace.

Mike,when you say "people in the NHL are there for a reason,they know the sport",yes some much BETTER than other mind you. Just because you made the NHL as a coach be it asst or head, doesn't mean much.Means no more than a player getting drafted 10th over all , sure (the player)he's been in involved in the sport for a long time(20 years),but just because of that, doesn't mean much alot of the time .

Just because some hold a title as a "pro" doesn't mean there "pro's",be that coach , gm or players or scouts.

Pro head scouts....why do they draft so many busts?
Pro head coach life in Mtl, why do they last only 3 year on avg in Montreal?
You get where i'm going with that.

Sure Mike Milbury was a Nhl GM.....what did that mean?He was qualified for the position? Same way the guy in Columbus is a GM , how's is he making out / Gretzky head coach....etc


Mike you also say "Very rarely are such professionals fired for ineptitude or egregious behaviour.


I say look at Mike Milbury, Regan Houle,Ted Nolan ,Don Cherry, Guy Carbo,Paul Holmgren was inept coach in Hartford ,Mario Trembly was in Mtl,Tom McVie in Washington,Gretzky in Phx,John Mclean in NJ,Dave Lewis,Ed Olczyk,Bill Sutherland in Winnipeg ,Brad Park in Boston ,Trent Yawney etc etc etc ....We could make a list a mile long of inept coaches or GM'S ,alot longer than any list of rehired fired coaches to same org for example.



I think there could be different ways at looking at "inept",and also different categories of inept .

A person might make a great AHL or CHL coach or GM, but be an INEPT coach in NHL or as NHL GM .

Example :some coaches are totally inept in NHL , some might be partially inept,or some might just be inept to handle coaching in certain markets .


Most time when coaches get fired at any level ,the team's poor play is being blamed on the ineptitude of the coaching staff(to make it work)


MOST professional organizations, when they fire , don't rehire back the same guy right away.
As i say , anytime you tell a guy you sucks at what he is doing in a position , then offer him a LOWER position to stay, call it what you like, to me that is nothing less than sympathy or guilt for initially making the wrong decision.


Last edited by Habaneros: 11-24-2011 at 04:33 AM.
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11-24-2011, 04:11 AM
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Common place is seeing the sun shine 250-275 days out of 365 a year (every year on avg)over a 15 year time period .

Common placeis seeing the Bell Centre sold out night after night with 21,273 for YEARS.



Not common place seeing people get re hired shortly after being fired, by the same employer in the NHL over a 15 YEAR time period .

Reason i say this is we're talking 6-8 people??on a list you did provide me , which 2 of them was done by Gauthier himself(Pearn and Charron).These people got re hired after being fired by the same employer in the NHL over a 15 YEAR time period ,which is a very small fraction of a percentile ,over a large period of time .
To be honest, I can't read much more on this discussion. You seem to be keen on obfuscating the point, and the opening lines of your post have nothing to do with anything, so it's a little peculiar to have even written them . . .

You claim it's a small percentile, yet we don't even know what the percentile is. So you're making stuff up here, basically. I made a list off the top of my head--a list which didn't include Pearn--and yet, on this very basic point, you're ready to attribute it to NHL organisations feeling 'guilty'. OK, fine. You can think that professional organisations operate that way. Clearly, I don't think any professional organisation operates in fantasy land. I'm perfectly fine with us not seeing eye to eye.

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11-24-2011, 04:36 AM
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To be honest, I can't read much more on this discussion. You seem to be keen on obfuscating the point, and the opening lines of your post have nothing to do with anything, so it's a little peculiar to have even written them . . .

You claim it's a small percentile, yet we don't even know what the percentile is. So you're making stuff up here, basically. I made a list off the top of my head--a list which didn't include Pearn--and yet, on this very basic point, you're ready to attribute it to NHL organisations feeling 'guilty'. OK, fine. You can think that professional organisations operate that way. Clearly, I don't think any professional organisation operates in fantasy land. I'm perfectly fine with us not seeing eye to eye.

Thanks Mike ,

I do know and understand what percentile means just for your information.


Your eye might not line with mine , but i'd never try to go out of my way to tell you what i think you don't know .I guess will leave it at that .


I believe what i say, i don't force you too.

Take care

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11-24-2011, 04:47 AM
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I'll save everyone who is to post here sometime...

...on behalf on the majority of the posters "Why the hell is he a pro-scout if he couldn't even coach? He likes soft players, great that's what we need more soft players! We're doomed for mediocrity for the next 10 years...Gauthier Gainey "
no hossa or where's chipchura?

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11-24-2011, 04:48 AM
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no hossa or where's chipchura?
Ever wonder what if we did get Hossa...? Anyone got Perry's fax number to let him know to scout Hossa??

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11-24-2011, 06:22 AM
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Pearn took the bullet for the Habs slow start.

He PG, and JM are long-time colleagues. They aren't gonna just dispatch their guy without a plan. This is just how business works. PG appeases the fan with a fall-guy. Pearn steps up. The fervor relents a bit. PG should be a politician.

Who cares really. Pearn should make a good scout. He has been coaching for ever at the highest level and who better to recognize possible weaknesses in our opposition that we can exploit.

You have to look after your guys. fogidaboutit

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11-24-2011, 07:58 AM
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Frankly, you seem confused. You seem to be arguing that Pearn shouldn't have been fired. Fine, I don't mind if you hold that opinion. This discussion is about his new job, which is that of a scout for the club. You seem to be under the impression that this is a weird move. My post asserted that it is not weird at all: in fact, it is common place in the NHL.
I would also say that a scout and a coach use differenet skill sets. You don't have to be a good coach to be a good scout.

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11-24-2011, 08:10 AM
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It's funny how much people like to argue about semantics on these forums. Also it is common. Mike showed you how common it was and you broke it down into what you considered to be valid or not based on how long they kept the job for. That isn't relevant, what is relevant is that in some capacity they continued to work with their respective clubs, whether it was 1 day or 10 years is irrelevant.

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11-24-2011, 09:06 AM
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It's common, and it's anything but a promotion.

In hockey, when you have a manager with a contract and you don't know what to do with him, you give him a scouting job. It's hard, boring and unsexy work.

Pearn probably looked around if he could find another coach (or assistant coach) jig, and when he didn't, he accepted a scouting position just so he could continue receiving his salary.

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