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What's your opinion on Victor Hedman?

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Old
11-29-2011, 01:23 PM
  #26
The Fear Boners
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolts265 View Post
I don't think insulting someone's knowledge of hockey for attempting to get a forum started on a DISCUSSION FORUM shows your hockey superiority. I had an opinion, right or wrong, and merely wanted to see what others felt. Sorry you took that as an opportunity to deride my knowledge.
Not really ripping on you but the state of HF in general.

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11-29-2011, 04:05 PM
  #27
Oilrider
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Originally Posted by Bolts265 View Post
I don't think insulting someone's knowledge of hockey for attempting to get a forum started on a DISCUSSION FORUM shows your hockey superiority. I had an opinion, right or wrong, and merely wanted to see what others felt. Sorry you took that as an opportunity to deride my knowledge.
I'm sorry, that really wasn't directed at you at all, although I can kind of see why you would take it that way. You asked for an opinion, and that is what mine is. I have seen others complain about Hedman and it really blows my mind, so my comments are based on what I think of Hedman, and what comment I have seen from others on his play. I really didn't mean any offense by it, and I hope my comments can be constructive so people can learn about the reasons to be optimistic about a player like him, so we don't end up booing him out of town.

This guy would be a god in certain hockey markets, for playing at this level at such a young age, when usually a defenseman isn't even in the NHL, because they take a lot longer to develop than the offensive players. The problem is, he lacks a lot of the flash that some fans want to see like they saw in a young Dion Phaneuf with his thunderous hits. The thing is, that was pretty much all Phaneuf was able to do, and wasn't at the same level as Hedman is now in so many other aspects of the game.

With more experience, he will be able to add to his abilities, but for now he is focused on playing good solid defense before anything else, which is what he should do. He will only get better, and has the potential to be one of the best dmen in the league. In a couple years this team could really become Stamkos and Hedman, and the only issue I see with him is if we can afford to keep him long term.

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11-30-2011, 09:35 AM
  #28
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No problem, I see where you are coming from and I respect your opinion as you do mine. All is well with us.
I have, through this thread, gotten a new attitude about Victor and it has opened my eyes to see the potential this young man truly has. I doubt he will ever be booed out of town but I do hope, somehow we will be able to secure him long term at a price that makes both him and the organization happy for years to come.

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11-30-2011, 10:03 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bolts265 View Post
somehow we will be able to secure him long term at a price that makes both him and the organization happy for years to come.


He ain't goin' nowhere!


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11-30-2011, 02:19 PM
  #30
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I think he is a wealthy young man.

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01-31-2012, 12:36 AM
  #31
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Hedman

Islanders fan here, and I don't watch any TB games, so I have a question for you guys. I see Hedman only has 6 points so far this season, and wanted to know whats going on with him? Is he a good shutdown defenseman? I also noticed hes got a bad +/- so far too. Whats your thoughts on him so far?

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01-31-2012, 08:20 AM
  #32
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Besides being concussed and missing time, he has been asked to be a shutdown defender for now. I wouldn't put too much stock in plus minus with our goal differential.

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01-31-2012, 08:37 AM
  #33
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I wouldn't put too much stock in +/- period, unless someone has a +100 or something.

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Old
01-31-2012, 09:28 AM
  #34
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It's a miracle anyone is even a plus on this team.

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Old
02-15-2012, 05:16 PM
  #35
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You guys have a very unique and very intriguing talent in Victor Hedman.

I've never seen a more impressive "pure defender" at that age. His stickchecks and pokechecks are always superbly timed and he isn't "physical" and never will be but he actually uses his big body much in the same effective manner that smaller defenders do to angle the attacker to the corner and angle them off the puck. I think it would be wrong to try to develop him into a "mean, physical defender" just because of his size.

Given how good of a "defender" he is, its shocking and mind boggling to me how many bad decisions he makes strictly in the defensive zone when the puck is on his stick. It's not that they are bad decisions, but he's just a step behind, a second too late in his decisions with the puck in the defensive zone. When he has the time, he makes a very quality first pass, on par with the top "puck movers" in the league.

One of the reasons that this is mind boggling is because he is above average, in terms of decision making, in the neutral zone and in the offensive zone. I really don't have an explanation for it, and I don't know if that is something that can be taught or not, having never played in the NHL.
However, to me, it seems like this is an area where the team can help him. Right now, he is the one who is being asked to start break outs and carry the puck out of the zone, but I think he'd be better off paired with a true puck mover, someone who specializes at simply keeping the puck moving and breaking it out of the defensive zone, either by skating or with a breakout pass. Someone like a Kevin Shattenkirk in St. Louis fills this role very well. You don't have to go out and get him specifically, but get someone similar to that to pair with Hedman, to handle the puck after Hedman makes the play to separate the attacker from the puck, and I think his game will really take off. Who is even his partner? It seems to change every 3rd shift, I don't think the Lightning have his ideal partner on their roster as it is right now, perhaps this reflects it.

Offensively, the tools are there and the decision making is above average. The offense will come, and it will come quietly, much like someone like a Chara. Simply by making a solid first pass or good entry pass into the zone, and picking up 2nd assists. Then some by making good passes and taking open shots on the powerplay. The offense will come, there's really no reason to worry about that. He's shown above average offensive abilities already, despite his point totals. He could have 10-20 more points by just repeatedly jumping into the play or pinching, but he's simply not that kind of player, which is neither good nor bad. Its just not him.

Personally, I think he has the highest ceiling of any defender in the league today in terms of dominance on the ice, higher than Pietrangelo, higher than Doughty, higher than Karlsson; but he really needs help to get there and likely never will.

You can see why he was taken 2nd overall, he just has so much potential and he excels in every aspect of the game except his one glaring weakness (decision making and clearing the puck strictly in the defensive zone), which holds him back both offensively (more defensive zone time) and obviously defensively, allowing the other team to have another possession, much like an offensive rebound in basketball.

Also, for someone as big as he is, and for a player as reliant on the pokecheck and his stick as he is, it's a wonder to me why he uses such a short hockey stick. Has he ever tried a longer one? It seems to me like it would only help out all of his most frequently used strengths, while not really hampering him.

I'd like to break down what I'm saying here with some video shortly

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Old
02-15-2012, 08:33 PM
  #36
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We appreciate your analysis. He has had 2 concussions which is concerning for the long term. I will be interested how he will rated 10 years from now.

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02-15-2012, 09:38 PM
  #37
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He's developing reeeeaaaallllyyyy sssslllloooowwww.....

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Old
02-15-2012, 10:55 PM
  #38
PavelDatsyuk
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Hedman doesn't get beat all night defensively, but he has multiple bad, slow decisions in the defensive zone. He doesn't really make a bad one, however, from the neutral zone forward, which is why it's so puzzling as to why he struggles so much under pressure in the defensive zone.

His one on one defending, both off the rush and along the boards is very impressive. He is also just an absolute presence in front of his own net, clearing pucks very well.

25+ minutes and his minus came from an empty netter, real strong game from Hedman, minus those defensive zone decision errors



In the first video

The play starting at 0:24, right around the 0:27 mark Hedman needs to make that simple reverse to Brewer for an easy out of the zone. Instead he chips it out of the zone to give up a cheap possession, not a terrible play but not the best option.

Then the playing starting around 0:38, right around the 0:41 mark, ideally, he makes a little touch pass to Moore there, 2nd option should be chipping it up the boards and out, but a man was closing that hard so he goes up the middle, but it needs to be higher and harder on the PK.

The play at 1:26 sums up all his issues, just takes a second too long and pressure gets to him, forcing a sloppy pass. Ideally, Clark shouldn't chase the puck behind the net and needs to give Hedman a reverse option there, but Hedman should have still reversed it anyways once pressure got there.

At 1:45 there's no way that should happen. Just too slow Victor, he needs to go anywhere with that and it's a rather simple play to make, you have to wonder how something like that happens when the rest of his game is so strong.

Flip ahead to 2:31, with no pressure, Hedman fires a real crisp stretch pass, simple to make but a sharp contrast to decisions he makes under pressure.

Another example right at 3:04, he fires a pass that doesn't connect due to a little pressure, though to be fair a forward at the NHL level should be able to receive that pass. That's another thing that's extremely noticeable. Many incomplete passes from Hedman due to the forward simply not receiving the pass correctly, which is very similar to an incompletion in football - just shouldn't happen at the highest level.



2nd video showcases elite positional play and good offensive instincts, but again at 1:15, he really struggles when under pressure in the defensive zone.

1:50 is the only good play he makes under pressure in the defensive zone while in control of the puck all night long, and its a nice one, which leaves you wanting more.

The sequence at 2:31 of the 2nd video really sums up Hedman's game. A good read, good interception and then giving a cheap possession back to the opponent while under pressure.

The play at the very end of the video shows another great defensive play, and this time a teammate (forward) makes the play out of the zone, which leave you to wonder if Hedman had that kind of support from a defensive partner, someone who he could just poke the puck to and that player chips it out or makes a first pass, how much cleaner Hedman's possession game would be. I really feel this is the biggest priority (other than goaltending probably) for the Lightning.



A real nice sequence from Hedman at 0:20 onwards, again he ends it by just poking the puck forward to Stamkos, who gets it out of the zone.


Last edited by PavelDatsyuk: 02-15-2012 at 11:52 PM.
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02-16-2012, 12:24 AM
  #39
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Appreciate the insight Pavel..very good stuff.

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02-16-2012, 04:29 AM
  #40
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I think you're probably dead on in your analysis, but that also seems to be the type of thing that comes with time, confidence, and experience. Honestly, I think as far as defensive ability he's a legit top pairing NHL caliber defender, and would be top pairing on most teams outside of Nashville. His offensive instincts... when he carries the puck or jumps into the rush, he just feels like a threat. No one holds their breath when Brett Clark is carrying the puck, but Hedman is something special when he jumps into the rush. I wish he'd do it more, although I understand why he doesn't (when you're boasting MAB as a 15+ minute a game guy... yeah).

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02-16-2012, 06:04 AM
  #41
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It's no secret we need someone like Shattenkirk here... the most similar we have is Gilroy (or MAB) who's inconsistent and not on the same level in talent

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02-16-2012, 08:43 PM
  #42
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I am not worried about Hedman now, but if his play is like this 4 years from now,Houston we have a problem.

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02-16-2012, 08:47 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DekeR View Post
I am not worried about Hedman now, but if his play is like this 4 years from now,Houston we have a problem.
By "now" you mean playing 25+ minutes a night and 7 points in his last 9 games?

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Last edited by TheDaysOf 04: 02-16-2012 at 09:14 PM. Reason: another point
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Old
02-16-2012, 09:22 PM
  #44
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Is it just me or does #77 look like a completely different player since coming back from being dinged in the head? It's like they took the leash off of him and let him jump up more often.

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02-16-2012, 09:26 PM
  #45
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Reverse concussion? Transformed him into a different player. Doesn't remember the previous Victor Hedman and assumed a new, different, better identity.

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02-16-2012, 09:27 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Downie View Post
Reverse concussion? Transformed him into a different player. Doesn't remember the previous Victor Hedman and assumed a new, different, better identity.
hehe, maybe since we're just desperate sellers, he can just let it loose and see what happens.

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02-16-2012, 09:28 PM
  #47
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Yes, it looks like they did. And he looks way more comfortable with both sides of his game. He's a stud and if he's playing this way 4 years from now then we've got a star.

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02-16-2012, 09:31 PM
  #48
Benders Lindyhop
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Originally Posted by DekeR View Post
I am not worried about Hedman now, but if his play is like this 4 years from now,Houston we have a problem.
Not quite sure who you've been watching. Hedman wears #77, keep an eye on him, kids gonna be a star.

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02-16-2012, 11:14 PM
  #49
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Reverse concussion? Transformed him into a different player. Doesn't remember the previous Victor Hedman and assumed a new, different, better identity.
"Tell him he's Wayne Gretzky." - Oilers coach Ted Green, after Shaun Van Allen suffered a concussion and couldn't remember who he was.

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02-16-2012, 11:40 PM
  #50
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He has stepped up his game since coming back. I wish he'd be more physical, but other than that he has shown a lot of progression.

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