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How many games for Pacioretty? [UPDATE: 3-game suspension]

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Old
11-29-2011, 10:33 AM
  #776
ThomasJ13
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
The hit does look very similar. Thanks for the link.

As for Lucic's hit on Miller, it's probably the most deliberate wrong hit we'll see this year, on the worst possible target. I takes no skill or toughness to deck another team's goalie, but somehow every player understands you don't do that. Except Lucic. Anyone who makes excuses for his actions loses all credibility to point fingers at other players.

This isn't directed at you personally, because I think you're being constructive with your comments, but if a fan base expects other fans to step up and accept responsibility, they can't duck-and-cover every time a player from their team injures someone. Check your own boards -- the majority of Bruins fans make excuse after excuse after excuse for their players' actions, and then wonder why they're not taken seriously when they comment on other players' actions.
I think you'll find the majority of Bruins fans were OK with the Paille suspension, on a hit that was the most similar to the Pacioretty hit. Very little 'duck and cover' going on regarding that hit. Andrew Ference even called out Paille on that hit:

http://http://articles.boston.com/20...bruins-coaches

Most of the discussion from Bruins fans after the Paille hit was a debate whether Ference should have called him out, not whether Paille should have been suspended. And I'd say about half, including me, thought it was OK for Ference to have said what he said.

The Lucic and Chara hits are both very dissimilar to the Paille and Pacioretty hits, and should (and have) merit their own discussion based on the facts of those two incidents. Those that conflate the Chara, Lucic and Pacioretty hits do themselves a disservice by appearing to be more concerned with the jerseys the respective players are wearing, as opposed to the actual circumstances of the hits.

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11-29-2011, 10:33 AM
  #777
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1. If I was Max Pacioretty, I'd be furious. And, I'd also wonder if the suspension would've been as harsh had a penalty been called on the play.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...s.html?cmp=rss

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11-29-2011, 10:34 AM
  #778
Karl Pilkington
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Originally Posted by Delat View Post
Just imagine one second that's it's Letang that hit Max like that, we'd love the 3 games, so I don't see any problem with that. I understand it's frustrating, but it's the right call. Like Francois Gagnon said on twitter, you don't correct a mistake with another one.
For real? Political correctness in this country.. consensus... yeah.. that's being a voice of reason.

You can't actually believe this can you? Just because you'd want a suspension the other way doesn't make this one right.. I'm not picking on you or anything it's just this kind of logic boils my blood.. you deserve more than to sit back and take something like this. There's no use getting mad or anything like that but to justify something unjust (by whatever logic), as so many people do today, is wrong.

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11-29-2011, 10:57 AM
  #779
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Just be thankful guys it wasn't Gregory Campbell that Pacioretty hit..

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11-29-2011, 11:09 AM
  #780
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The one factor that no one has mentioned in this controversy is that Letang's hair was clearly blocking his vision.

He looks in the direction of the hit but can't see anything because his hair is in the way.

NHL players should be held accountable for their hairstyles.

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11-29-2011, 11:15 AM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ13 View Post
I think you'll find the majority of Bruins fans were OK with the Paille suspension, on a hit that was the most similar to the Pacioretty hit. Very little 'duck and cover' going on regarding that hit. Andrew Ference even called out Paille on that hit:

http://http://articles.boston.com/20...bruins-coaches

Most of the discussion from Bruins fans after the Paille hit was a debate whether Ference should have called him out, not whether Paille should have been suspended. And I'd say about half, including me, thought it was OK for Ference to have said what he said.

The Lucic and Chara hits are both very dissimilar to the Paille and Pacioretty hits, and should (and have) merit their own discussion based on the facts of those two incidents. Those that conflate the Chara, Lucic and Pacioretty hits do themselves a disservice by appearing to be more concerned with the jerseys the respective players are wearing, as opposed to the actual circumstances of the hits.
You make a good point and I thank you for the link. Some Paille apologists, as expected, but you're right that the majority of fans were pretty reasoned.

Unfortunately, a lot has happened since February, which I think is when so much of the moral relativism kicked in. Too bad for all sides, because it brings out the very worst in all of us.

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11-29-2011, 11:18 AM
  #782
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So basically, we have two ****ing refs who either didn't see Pacioretty's hit on Letang or simply thought it was a legal hit.. and then these two refs refuse to blow the whistle when Price clearly froze the puck. Ridiculous.

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11-29-2011, 11:23 AM
  #783
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So how come James Neal axes a Montreal player over the head, and gets nothing but a $2500.00 fine ?? Was that not also, by definition, a reckless head shot ??

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11-29-2011, 11:29 AM
  #784
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I would just like to ask Brendan Shanahan how he comes to the conclusion that for Deveaux's play and Pacioretty's play the same punishment should be doled out. That's all. Just one question and I'd be on my way. He wouldn't have to do any sort of stupid video or anything either like the masses seem to enjoy so much. Hell he could e-mail me his response and I'd be content.

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11-29-2011, 11:34 AM
  #785
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The problem is not the ruling but the rule itself.

It's essentialy being interpreted as you cant hit a guy with his head down.

Everyone is told from day 1 when entering peewee hockey to keep your head up and be careful crossing the middle of the ice. Sometimes players forget that cardinal rule and you see what happened last Saturday. This is a rough 'contact' sport and always has been, thats one of the reasons that makes it so great. If we continue down this path I fear the game will turn into a glorified All-Star game with no contact at all.

In my opinion the hits by Patches, Paille and Malone should not have been suspensions. The league is basically endorsing skate up the ice with your head down and no one can hit you.

Onus has to be on the players to not put themselves in vulnerable positions.

Btw blatant elbows to the head by Deveaux (NYR) last week should be suspensions.

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11-29-2011, 11:50 AM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsrock76 View Post
The problem is not the ruling but the rule itself.

It's essentialy being interpreted as you cant hit a guy with his head down.

Everyone is told from day 1 when entering peewee hockey to keep your head up and be careful crossing the middle of the ice. Sometimes players forget that cardinal rule and you see what happened last Saturday. This is a rough 'contact' sport and always has been, thats one of the reasons that makes it so great. If we continue down this path I fear the game will turn into a glorified All-Star game with no contact at all.

In my opinion the hits by Patches, Paille and Malone should not have been suspensions. The league is basically endorsing skate up the ice with your head down and no one can hit you.

Onus has to be on the players to not put themselves in vulnerable positions.

Btw blatant elbows to the head by Deveaux (NYR) last week should be suspensions.

Players are allowed to hit and destroy players who are caught looking at their feet. They just can't hit the head while doing so. Letang's shoulder was available for Patches. He opted for the head.

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11-29-2011, 11:59 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Players are allowed to hit and destroy players who are caught looking at their feet. They just can't hit the head while doing so. Letang's shoulder was available for Patches. He opted for the head.
Are you suggesting that this hit was a premeditated targeting of the head ?
If that were true, then the 3 games is truly trivial.

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11-29-2011, 12:00 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Players are allowed to hit and destroy players who are caught looking at their feet. They just can't hit the head while doing so. Letang's shoulder was available for Patches. He opted for the head.
Yeah but when a player is bending alot it's hard not hitting the head when it is 1 feet lower than it should be. (not saying it wasn't possible to avoid in Pacioretty case), the player with the head down should still sometimes be held accountable.

Players should just go Ulf Samuelsson/Bryan Marchment/Darius Kasparaitis style and get the players in their knees with low submarine hits. They will be sure it isn't headshot.


Last edited by Forsead: 11-29-2011 at 12:11 PM.
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11-29-2011, 12:31 PM
  #789
Karl Pilkington
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
You make a good point and I thank you for the link. Some Paille apologists, as expected, but you're right that the majority of fans were pretty reasoned.

Unfortunately, a lot has happened since February, which I think is when so much of the moral relativism kicked in. Too bad for all sides, because it brings out the very worst in all of us.
You can't treat things as absolute. You can try but the nature of the universe is relative. Everything is relative. Me, you, the sun, the galaxies... Why should our human affairs be any different?

In this case the "object of relativity" is the rule. That rule is itself associated to several other rulings. Rulings that since October have not been consistent with reality (incidents discussed broadly through this thread).

I like to think about things as a Solar System..

Rule 48 (or whatever number it is) is the star, and the relative rulings based on the rule are fragments of rock and gas orbiting the star. Now.. lets imagine this system without a consistent force of gravity... does anything happen? Does the star even reach a point of fusion?

My point is..Consistent force is the most important aspect of any successful system. This system is not set up to be constant and objective. You have one ex-NHLer put their to appease public perception. He is human and will be prone to his bias. One man with his frame by frame viewpoint is not the answer, especially with the pressure he is under.

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11-29-2011, 12:46 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by KiCaAw View Post
Are you suggesting that this hit was a premeditated targeting of the head ?
If that were true, then the 3 games is truly trivial.
I dunno about that poster, but *I* am suggesting that if Pacioretty didn't know what he was gonna hit when he made that play, then you can at least bag him for reckless hit to the head.

You have to know what you're going to hit and what's going to happen when you do, especially when you're hitting a much smaller player. Otherwise you will hurt people and it will be your fault. Isn't that why people say Chara was at fault for the damage the stanchion did to Pacioretty last year?

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11-29-2011, 12:48 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
I dunno about that poster, but *I* am suggesting that if Pacioretty didn't know what he was gonna hit when he made that play, then you can at least bag him for reckless hit to the head.

You have to know what you're going to hit and what's going to happen when you do, especially when you're hitting a much smaller player. Otherwise you will hurt people and it will be your fault. Isn't that why people say Chara was at fault for the damage the stanchion did to Pacioretty last year?
Problem is that Chara Hasn't been suspended.

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11-29-2011, 12:54 PM
  #792
Paul Dipietro
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Originally Posted by Karl Pilkington View Post
You can't treat things as absolute. You can try but the nature of the universe is relative. Everything is relative. Me, you, the sun, the galaxies... Why should our human affairs be any different?

In this case the "object of relativity" is the rule. That rule is itself associated to several other rulings. Rulings that since October have not been consistent with reality (incidents discussed broadly through this thread).

I like to think about things as a Solar System..

Rule 48 (or whatever number it is) is the star, and the relative rulings based on the rule are fragments of rock and gas orbiting the star. Now.. lets imagine this system without a consistent force of gravity... does anything happen? Does the star even reach a point of fusion?

My point is..Consistent force is the most important aspect of any successful system. This system is not set up to be constant and objective. You have one ex-NHLer put their to appease public perception. He is human and will be prone to his bias. One man with his frame by frame viewpoint is not the answer, especially with the pressure he is under.
I was about to dismiss your post as intellectual drivel and then I saw your avatar (KP is the most lovable dummy on the planet). Love the paradox

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11-29-2011, 12:57 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
I dunno about that poster, but *I* am suggesting that if Pacioretty didn't know what he was gonna hit when he made that play, then you can at least bag him for reckless hit to the head.

You have to know what you're going to hit and what's going to happen when you do, especially when you're hitting a much smaller player. Otherwise you will hurt people and it will be your fault. Isn't that why people say Chara was at fault for the damage the stanchion did to Pacioretty last year?
How about Bogosian' hit on Eakin, Meyers' hit on Zubrus. These players did target the head and no suspension. Where is "Consistently Inconsistent" Shanahan? How is the Pacioretty hit got the same suspension as the Deveaux's attempt to injure headshot?

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11-29-2011, 12:59 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
I dunno about that poster, but *I* am suggesting that if Pacioretty didn't know what he was gonna hit when he made that play, then you can at least bag him for reckless hit to the head.

You have to know what you're going to hit and what's going to happen when you do, especially when you're hitting a much smaller player. Otherwise you will hurt people and it will be your fault. Isn't that why people say Chara was at fault for the damage the stanchion did to Pacioretty last year?
Agreed...but I view the Chara incident as an act of premeditated retaliation...there is enough video evidence from the previous games to reasonably support this statement. What infuriates me the most about the Chara incident was the way he raised his left arm to ensure that his victim made major contact with the glass. Chara used the glass a weapon.

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11-29-2011, 01:19 PM
  #795
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Claude Julien on MaxPac suspension
http://tvasports.ca/archives/tvaspor...29-140652.html

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11-29-2011, 01:23 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
Problem is that Chara Hasn't been suspended.
But he was penalized. I think he only wasn't suspended because the Pacioretty injury, unlike the Letang broken nose, wasn't something you should have been able to expect. No one to my knowledge had hit that stanchion that hard before and Chara was just trying to push him into the wall. It was an unreasonable result of a reasonable hit.

On the other hand, Pacioretty knew, or should have been able to anticipate, that unloading his shoulder into Letang's face would do what it did. It was the reasonble result of an unreasonable hit.

Besides, IIRC Chara was penalized, just no supplementary discipline, which is IMHO perfectly fair.

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11-29-2011, 01:25 PM
  #797
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Agreed...but I view the Chara incident as an act of premeditated retaliation...there is enough video evidence from the previous games to reasonably support this statement. What infuriates me the most about the Chara incident was the way he raised his left arm to ensure that his victim made major contact with the glass. Chara used the glass a weapon.
I didn't see that when I looked at the video. I'll look again.

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11-29-2011, 01:27 PM
  #798
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Except the fact that Pacioretty didn't hit Letand with his elbows at all unlike Cooke who was hunting the head with his elbow which IMO put the two hits in a world of difference in dirtyness.

Was feeling bad for Savard, but those kind of comments make me feel that was just good ridance against the whiniest, unclassiest, cheap shotting organization in the league. Just go **** yourself Julien and come talk later when you don't look like a total white trash.

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11-29-2011, 01:28 PM
  #799
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Players are allowed to hit and destroy players who are caught looking at their feet. They just can't hit the head while doing so. Letang's shoulder was available for Patches. He opted for the head.
and yet, Malone...

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11-29-2011, 01:32 PM
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Except the fact that Pacioretty didn't hit Letand with his elbows at all unlike Cooke who was hunting the head with his elbow which IMO put the two hits in a world of difference in dirtyness.

Was feeling bad for Savard, but those kind of comments make me feel that was just good ridance against the whiniest, unclassiest, cheap shotting organization in the league. Just go **** yourself Julien and come talk later when you don't look like a total white trash.
Pacioretty didn't extend his elbow the way Cooke did, but contact with Letang was definitely delibered through the elbow.

It was tucked down where it was supposed to be, which is why Pacioretty isn't suspended for elbowing. But the position of the two made the elbow part of the equation for the Pacioretty hit and made it all the more important for Pax to do what he should have done -- read the play and adjust his angle to hit the body rather than the head.

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