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Players should overthrow Goodenow now before its too late.

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Old
09-15-2004, 10:22 PM
  #1
eye
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Players should overthrow Goodenow now before its too late.

All polls so far favour Bettman over Goodenow by a 2 to 1 margin or more. Where do I sign to get Goodenow to resign? His bull headedness and intimidation of his own players has led to this mess. The owners at least admit to making mistakes as does Bettman but Goodenow remains adament that virtual status quo will do when everyone knows it wont. Players have to find a way to put pressure on Goodenow to give in on the cap issue or we wont see hockey until the fall of 2006. Goodenow's number one job should be to protect jobs for his association members and cap should be secondary. I think in a free confidential vote by the players the majority would support some form of partnership with owners and would agree to a 52 percent share.

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09-15-2004, 10:28 PM
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What do polls mean?

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Old
09-15-2004, 10:57 PM
  #3
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I agree, get rid of Goodnow he is stubborn and seems to lack education. Bettman should make sweet love to Goodnows wife out of good faith.

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09-16-2004, 09:25 AM
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Who cares about the polls?


They already don't care about the fans.



Anyone who thinks that the latest offer from Goodenow was ther status quo are the ones who aren't educated...

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09-16-2004, 09:36 AM
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Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
All polls so far favour Bettman over Goodenow by a 2 to 1 margin or more. Where do I sign to get Goodenow to resign? His bull headedness and intimidation of his own players has led to this mess. The owners at least admit to making mistakes as does Bettman but Goodenow remains adament that virtual status quo will do when everyone knows it wont. Players have to find a way to put pressure on Goodenow to give in on the cap issue or we wont see hockey until the fall of 2006. Goodenow's number one job should be to protect jobs for his association members and cap should be secondary. I think in a free confidential vote by the players the majority would support some form of partnership with owners and would agree to a 52 percent share.


How many times must it be said? Goodenow will not be dumped by the players, the guy is almost Jesus-Christ and did miracles for them. He doesn't walk on water but almost.

I think you're fooling yourself big time.

What you're saying, essentially is: I think the players should wake up and fire the guy that allowed them to *totally own* the owners, put them on their knees and beg to accept a system where the players have ruled like never before.

Do you realize just how totally insane this is? The guy has the track record where he put the players totally over the top and (cue scary music: tum tum tum) they
should "overthrow" him before it's too late :lol

There is no way the players will drop the guy after such glowing success. Big time CBA win that screws up the owner, followed by a renewal of the same ****ed up CBA. He has been money for them. From the players' perspective, the guy certainly deserves to go all the way on this one.

The players can certainly accept a lesser CBA, but they will let Goodenow in place to negociate it nonetheless. They'd be crazy not to.

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09-16-2004, 10:44 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler


How many times must it be said? Goodenow will not be dumped by the players, the guy is almost Jesus-Christ and did miracles for them. He doesn't walk on water but almost.

I think you're fooling yourself big time.

What you're saying, essentially is: I think the players should wake up and fire the guy that allowed them to *totally own* the owners, put them on their knees and beg to accept a system where the players have ruled like never before.

Do you realize just how totally insane this is? The guy has the track record where he put the players totally over the top and (cue scary music: tum tum tum) they
should "overthrow" him before it's too late :lol

There is no way the players will drop the guy after such glowing success. Big time CBA win that screws up the owner, followed by a renewal of the same ****ed up CBA. He has been money for them. From the players' perspective, the guy certainly deserves to go all the way on this one.

The players can certainly accept a lesser CBA, but they will let Goodenow in place to negociate it nonetheless. They'd be crazy not to.
Goodenow will die before he caves so the only solution is to dump him. Smart agents that found ways to manipulate the old CBA are more responsible for the 1.8 million league average than Goodenow was. Mike Barnett with Joe Thornton in Boston had as much to do with salary escalation as anyone. It's fire Goodenow now or see 200 NHL jobs disapear over the next 2 years while both sides refuse to cross or even get closer to that deep line in the sand. Bettman will always have at least 8 owners on his side and public opinion is also on the owners side. Time for the players and Goodenow to wake up and smell the coffee. 1.3 and playing is a lot better than nothing. Heck, if they give it a try a compromise of 1.5 mill per is likely there for the taking.

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09-16-2004, 12:27 PM
  #7
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Goodenow will die before he caves so the only solution is to dump him.
I believe you do not understand that Bob Goodenow works for the players, not the other way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Smart agents that found ways to manipulate the old CBA are more responsible for the 1.8 million league average than Goodenow was.
Even if we accepted that (I don't) Goodenow would still be responsible for negociating CBAs that didn't allow owners to correct the market in time. Instead, it's been players totally scoring on the owners. It's never been a better time for players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
It's fire Goodenow now or see 200 NHL jobs disapear over the next 2 years while both sides refuse to cross or even get closer to that deep line in the sand.
Just how many teams do you expect to see disappear in the next two years? 200 players sounds like a LOT of teams. This isn't realistic. In fact, if the owners are telling the truth, this break, which is seen as a negative, is actually a *positive*. Those teams, under the lockout, are actually better off than they were last year since many lose money.

Not a single franchise will disappear in the next two years. It won't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Bettman will always have at least 8 owners on his side and public opinion is also on the owners side.
All things which were also the case 10 years ago and that didn't prevent Goodenow from completely owning management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Time for the players and Goodenow to wake up and smell the coffee. 1.3 and playing is a lot better than nothing. Heck, if they give it a try a compromise of 1.5 mill per is likely there for the taking.
You're confusing what you think they should do because of common sense for what they think they can get. None of what you are saying actually demonstrates why it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

It's not that I don't agree with you on common sense. It's that you do not realize it's no incentive to fire a guy who has traditionally reaped the rewards under much tougher conditions. The union was poorer 10 years ago. Goodenow didn't have a track record. The owners were richer.

Everything points to a more unified group of players than ever before, who have at their helm the guy who has been the most successful at screwing owners than anyone before. But you think the players need to wake up and fire him.

I don't think the players could agree with you. He's done great things for them and they must trust him more than they did before. Not less. Considering they were willing to go pretty far with him, I suspect they are not going to wake up anytime soon.

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09-17-2004, 10:43 AM
  #8
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Well, John Madden is the first player to have the guts to speak the truth and how he really feels. I'm betting most players feel the same way but don't want the heat that comes with speaking out. Gretzky and Lemeiux are the 2 hockey people that should speak out but would they be listened to or accused of a conflict of interest. Vlad, I think your overestimating the power and respect that Goodenow has. This is a new breed of players that have grown up to think of themselves first. I look for more players like Madden to speak out in the coming days. Owners want a form of partnership and a guarantee that player salaries won't be higher than other major sports - IMO and the opinion of a majority of fans is that it's a reasonable quest that would at least put a stop to yearly ticket price increases. Not everyone is a stupid and brainwashed as Toronto fans are. Imagine that many of them actually paid over $600 to see one boring World Cup final. The hockey world no longer revolves around Toronto and it's time for the media to understand the game is bigger than the Toronto Maple Leafs.

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09-17-2004, 11:48 AM
  #9
Vlad The Impaler
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I applaud Madden, a true man of honor is a rare thing in these times.

However, you can bet Madden is in the minority. This is nothing new. There have been players just like Madden in 94 and people like you at the time saying it was the end of the world.

I don't mean any offense, but everything you are saying still applied 10 years ago under much shakier conditions for Goodenow.

Of all the people who have to fear for their job due to this conflict, he's way down the list. This is exactly what he is paid to do. He's there to be the face and looked like the cause of the problems for the NHLPA just like Bettmaan is there to look like an egomaniacal loner.

Both of these things are not true. But the owners and players are very happy when people think this is the case.

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09-17-2004, 12:19 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Well, John Madden is the first player to have the guts to speak the truth and how he really feels. I'm betting most players feel the same way but don't want the heat that comes with speaking out. Gretzky and Lemeiux are the 2 hockey people that should speak out but would they be listened to or accused of a conflict of interest. Vlad, I think your overestimating the power and respect that Goodenow has. This is a new breed of players that have grown up to think of themselves first. I look for more players like Madden to speak out in the coming days. Owners want a form of partnership and a guarantee that player salaries won't be higher than other major sports - IMO and the opinion of a majority of fans is that it's a reasonable quest that would at least put a stop to yearly ticket price increases. Not everyone is a stupid and brainwashed as Toronto fans are. Imagine that many of them actually paid over $600 to see one boring World Cup final. The hockey world no longer revolves around Toronto and it's time for the media to understand the game is bigger than the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Again try to put this in perspective ?

how many OWNERS : 30 !!!

How many disagree with him : 6 (NYR, AVS, PHI, STL, COL, DET) = 20%

6 out 30 is HUGE !!!

How many NHLPA MEMBERS : I thought 1100 but it seems to be 750 !

how many disagree with him : MADDEN, THOMAS ? Let's 10%

75 out of 750 is not many but everyone like you is thinking, well here's the Goodenow leadership thrown away !!

Just ridiculous !

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Old
09-17-2004, 12:43 PM
  #11
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Put yourselves into a players skates so to speak. Would you be sitting at home thinking geez, there is no way I want to play hockey if the owners want a cap. Players just want to be treated well and paid well. It's greedy agents and Goodenow that won't allow the pendulum to swing back to the middle where it's good for both sides. Players are pretty simple people for the most part. If you interview everyone of them in total confidence and ask them; would you agree to play hockey tomorrow with a 20% paycut or sit out for up to 2 years or more with no pay? I think the answer is a simple and resounding yes I want to play. There are only so many jobs in Europe and they pay far less than minimum NHL wages to play there. This resistance to the CAP THING is all Goodenow and an attempt by him to earn his legacy. He may be playing poker against the wrong opponent this time.

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Old
09-18-2004, 02:16 AM
  #12
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It's easy for John Madden to look forward to a more restrictive payroll structure, considering the flat-out retarded contract he just signed. $20 million over 4 years, as I recall...

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Old
09-18-2004, 02:31 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Goodenow will die before he caves .
i suggest you educate yourself. the players have already given up a few hundred million. the owners have already won this labour battle.

seriously, what have the owners given up in this negotiation ?

dr

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