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Jim Fox just made a GREAT point about goalies during Kings/Hawks game

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Old
11-28-2011, 07:49 PM
  #226
TheOtherOne
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Thought experiment: If it were feasible to design goalie pads that kept the goalie completely safe, but did not increase his effective size at all, would it be a good idea to do so?

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11-28-2011, 07:49 PM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Yea, there needs to be a regulation on equipment sizes. Giguerre's pads are bigger than the state of Texas.

However, missing the net on a 2 on 0 is fail.
There is a whole list of rules for goalie equipment.....

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26287

Can't believe people keep making this type of comment.

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11-28-2011, 08:03 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by C77 View Post
They wouldn't miss the goal as much if they didn't have to aim for such ridiculously small areas on the edges of the net.
Maybe they should join Klinsmann's trade and play soccer against the massive nets. Pucks are small and they get sniped fast. Nets don't need to be bigger. Players just need to be better.

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11-28-2011, 08:05 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
Maybe they should join Klinsmann's trade and play soccer against the massive nets. Pucks are small and they get sniped fast. Nets don't need to be bigger. Players just need to be better.
I'm not arguing for bigger nets....just smaller goalie equipment.

It is not a safety issue when bullet-proof vests are smaller than chest protectors.

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11-28-2011, 08:06 PM
  #230
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Goalie equipment has gotten bigger the nets have stayed the same size and goalies say they need the big equipment for protection so what exactly is the big deal if they make the nets a little bit bigger?


Last edited by veganhunter: 11-28-2011 at 08:11 PM.
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11-28-2011, 08:07 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C77 View Post
I'm not arguing for bigger nets....just smaller goalie equipment.

It is not a safety issue when bullet-proof vests are smaller than chest protectors.
Do cops get shot 30-40 even 50 times a night...... laughable comparison.

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11-28-2011, 08:09 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Blue'sClues View Post
Do cops get shot 30-40 even 50 times a night...... laughable comparison.
No but that doesn't mean the equipment can't be smaller without sacrificing safety.

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11-28-2011, 08:17 PM
  #233
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So why is it that regular skaters like defensemen are able to block the same shots that goalies face without such massive equipment...and these defensemen are still able to skate away?

Some defensemen block 6 shots on a given night.....but they don't have to look like the Michelin Man.

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11-28-2011, 08:21 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by C77 View Post
No but that doesn't mean the equipment can't be smaller without sacrificing safety.
Why try and bring up bullet proof vests as some sort of comparison? Talk to anyone who's had the misfortune to be shot while wearing one and find out how much it hurts. I had a friend who was shot on duty. Took one in the chest above his heart and could barely move his arm for two weeks. The only thing they stop is the bullet, the force gets transferred into the body.

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11-28-2011, 08:23 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C77 View Post
I'm not arguing for bigger nets....just smaller goalie equipment.

It is not a safety issue when bullet-proof vests are smaller than chest protectors.
Again. It ain't broke, so don't try to fix it. Goals are being scored at a good pace (aside from coaching tactics/traps/1-3-1s).

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11-28-2011, 08:28 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C77 View Post
It is not a safety issue when bullet-proof vests are smaller than chest protectors.
You should probably see what happens to a cop who gets shot while wearing a bulletproof vest. Bulletproof vests are designed to spread out the impact, not eliminate the impact, and you usually end up bady bruised and with broken ribs.

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11-28-2011, 08:28 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C77 View Post
No but that doesn't mean the equipment can't be smaller without sacrificing safety.
Speaking as a goalie. The wrist on the glove doesn't really need the cheater..... probably why they call it a cheater..... and the webbed pocket could lose an inch or two. Other than that its there for safety.

Arm and body pads as well as pants need to be protective and flexible. That is why some areas have multiple levels, to allow for protection when the body moves in various positions.

The blocker needs to go down below the fingers to protect the hand/ fingers. Even still a puck can get deflected up and break your finger..... I know.

The way the position is played is a much bigger factor than equipment will ever be.

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11-28-2011, 08:50 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by C77 View Post

I don't want to see 6 foot 5 inch goalies that play the mathematical percentages.
Sorry but that isn't going away anytime soon. Even IF, IF the NHL tinkered with the goalie equipment, playing the percentages is not going away. It's simply too effective.

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11-28-2011, 08:56 PM
  #239
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Okay so even if we say "the equipment is fine"...What can be done so that goalies aren't racking up %.930 like it's no big deal?

There is no doubt anymore about whether or not a goalie is going to save a shot. It is almost a given that a save will be made...to the point that you look at the guy with the puck and say "he'll never score here".

Look at the all-time single season save percentage leaders and more than all of them are from the past 5 seasons.

Where is the excitement for a fan if you essentially know that goalie is going to make every save except 2 on 1's and deflections?

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11-28-2011, 08:59 PM
  #240
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So a 1-0, 35 shots a side game can't be exciting?

If you're all about scoring I have to ask why your avatar is a soccer player..... It is a soccer player right?

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11-28-2011, 09:03 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Blue'sClues View Post
So a 1-0, 35 shots a side game can't be exciting?

If you're all about scoring I have to ask why your avatar is a soccer player..... It is a soccer player right?
If it's a playoff game, then of course that 1-0 game would be awesome.

However in a regular season game with 35 shots and none of them going in....I do find that kind of boring for the most part...unless it is a superlative performance by the goalie. To this day lots of people talk about the Tugnutt performance against Boston....and it is legendary but if I recall correctly he still gave up 3 goals?

If you know that nothing is going in what's the point of the game? Goals should happen in hockey (and luckily for the most part they do).

Anyways...and not to be off-topic, but soccer is a completely different animal.

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11-28-2011, 09:19 PM
  #242
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Basically what I'm saying is that I'd just like to see there be more balance between shooter and goalie. Please don't misinterpret this as "he wants to see goals from the red line every other game".

For example I just want a shot like Glenn Anderson's legendary Game 7 goal in 1987 to still be feasible in today's NHL. Almost every goalie in the NHL makes this save today...

But also I do appreciate a great save like the famous one from Patrick Roy against the Rangers in 1986.

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11-28-2011, 09:31 PM
  #243
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I agree with the spirit of what the OP is getting at.

Goal scoring has been declining the past decade and half (with a few peaks and valleys) and they're are lots of reasons why that is.

I love hockey. It is my favorite sport and I will watch it no matter what. But if the NHL wants to take what I think is a great game and appeal to those fans that aren't yet fans I think they need to find a way to increase scoring.

Offense is something that appeals to all sports fans, especially in North America. If you talk to fans about what they liked about any given game and they will state, did you see that "touchdown, homerun, dunk, etc". People at those games stand up cheer and high five eachother and are generally excited. Go to an NHL game and you know the loudest the arena will get is when the home team scores.

For the sake of the sport, they need to do something to increase goals. I am not at all concerned that doing so will alienate some hard core fans.

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11-28-2011, 09:34 PM
  #244
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I actually youtubed it to see what goal you were talking about....



Personally I think that's a very bad goal, the goalie simply misplays the screen by his defensemen.

Goals like that are no long feasible because the goalies have gotten that much smarter.... they now play a system. The butterfly that take away the biggest percentage of the net and dares the shooter to beat him high to either side...... with the occasional 5 hole attempt.




Like I said I've been a goalie for years and I would really get a kick out of a teammate coming to me before the game and telling me he heard some guys on the other team talking about shooting high on me. I'm like, LOL, that exactly what I want them to do.

Dropping down covering the bottom basically leaves the shooter two areas, high glove, high blocker.... If I remain standing with more than 2 feet above the net (Im 6' + skates). Then the shooter has low/ high glove, low/ high, blocker and 5 hole.

Now do I want to play a style that asks me to react to two different areas or a style that asks me to react to 5 possibilities?

Answers pretty clear to me.

edit.... oh yeah, and another good thing about forcing a shooter to go high is that they can miss the net....... never heard of a guy missing low.

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11-28-2011, 09:53 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DickSmehlik View Post
I agree with the spirit of what the OP is getting at.

Goal scoring has been declining the past decade and half (with a few peaks and valleys) and they're are lots of reasons why that is.

I love hockey. It is my favorite sport and I will watch it no matter what. But if the NHL wants to take what I think is a great game and appeal to those fans that aren't yet fans I think they need to find a way to increase scoring.

Offense is something that appeals to all sports fans, especially in North America. If you talk to fans about what they liked about any given game and they will state, did you see that "touchdown, homerun, dunk, etc". People at those games stand up cheer and high five eachother and are generally excited. Go to an NHL game and you know the loudest the arena will get is when the home team scores.

For the sake of the sport, they need to do something to increase goals. I am not at all concerned that doing so will alienate some hard core fans.
I mean, goal scoring isn't that bad. I see 5-3 and 4-3 games almost nightly. It won't be every single game every single time, but it isn't that bad. If offense is to be up scaled, then implement or alter rules like icing, hand passes, offsides, etc. Don't punish the goalies. It's one of the hardest jobs in sports if not the hardest. Don't make it worse.

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11-28-2011, 10:07 PM
  #246
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I mean, goal scoring isn't that bad. I see 5-3 and 4-3 games almost nightly. It won't be every single game every single time, but it isn't that bad. If offense is to be up scaled, then implement or alter rules like icing, hand passes, offsides, etc. Don't punish the goalies. It's one of the hardest jobs in sports if not the hardest. Don't make it worse.
Ugh no don't give me that. Being a hitter in MLB is harder(Hitting a baseball for a hit is the hardest thing to do in sports), being a pitcher in MLB is harder(you have to really earn your shutouts and sub 3 earned run average)being a defensive back in the NFL is harder, being a goal scorer in the NHL is harder (about an avg of 7% of shots go in).

There are alot of goalies with 92% save percentages and higher. Yeah in the context of professional goalies, it must be real hard when you have that success rate at stopping pucks.

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11-28-2011, 10:57 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by NeelyWasAWarrior View Post
Ugh no don't give me that. Being a hitter in MLB is harder(Hitting a baseball for a hit is the hardest thing to do in sports), being a pitcher in MLB is harder(you have to really earn your shutouts and sub 3 earned run average)being a defensive back in the NFL is harder, being a goal scorer in the NHL is harder (about an avg of 7% of shots go in).

There are alot of goalies with 92% save percentages and higher. Yeah in the context of professional goalies, it must be real hard when you have that success rate at stopping pucks.
I've played all sports except football. Being a goalie is by far the most challenging. If you wanna play the percentages, batting averages are higher than most shooting percentages, there goes that argument. In baseball you have a huge baseball field as your net, in hockey, it's much more harder. Can't compare the two. Being a goalie is also a lot more mentally taxing than being a skater. Sure, the odds are that they will make the save. But, what about power plays or 5 on 3's? Or better yet, overtime games in the playoffs? One mistake, being one inch out of position, and the season can come to an end. If a shooter misses, at least the game isn't over in most circumstances. The goalie is the last line of defense. If a mistake is made, the red light is coming on. IMO, it is most certainly one of the hardest positions in sports to play.

Edit: you may can make a case for pitchers having in rough, but it's close.

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11-28-2011, 11:13 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by phil7488 View Post
I've played all sports except football. Being a goalie is by far the most challenging. If you wanna play the percentages, batting averages are higher than most shooting percentages, there goes that argument. In baseball you have a huge baseball field as your net, in hockey, it's much more harder. Can't compare the two. Being a goalie is also a lot more mentally taxing than being a skater. Sure, the odds are that they will make the save. But, what about power plays or 5 on 3's? Or better yet, overtime games in the playoffs? One mistake, being one inch out of position, and the season can come to an end. If a shooter misses, at least the game isn't over in most circumstances. The goalie is the last line of defense. If a mistake is made, the red light is coming on. IMO, it is most certainly one of the hardest positions in sports to play.

Edit: you may can make a case for pitchers having in rough, but it's close.
Football quarterback is by far the most difficult position in sports to play

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11-28-2011, 11:16 PM
  #249
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Football quarterback is by far the most difficult position in sports to play
All a matter of opinion.

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11-29-2011, 12:36 AM
  #250
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Football quarterback is by far the most difficult position in sports to play
Maybe, but most quarterbacks couldn't play any other position in any other sport. They've got strong arms, hand eye coordination and are tall.

Peyton Manning is a scrub playing any other sport(or even any other position). Same for Tom Brady. Same for Drew Brees. And I also have to question that as well when a rookie or a sophomore sensation is coming in every year and leading his team to the playoffs or close to it.


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