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Old
11-27-2011, 10:30 PM
  #76
Sydor25
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After reading what Terry said about Hunter, I see Loktionov sent back to Manchester to make room for Penner. Stoll takes Loktionov's spot and Brown goes to 2nd line RW.

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11-27-2011, 10:31 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post

Tell me what lines you would like to see. I see so many people on here complain as if there is simple answer out there to what ails the team. All people have is complaints and no suggestions. And there is a reason, it isn't that simple. The bottom line, the team needs this type of shake up minimally.
Honestly it's more the system/coach, not the players. The system is decent enough when you have guys with size like Handzus, Simmer, Frolov, hell even poni playing the puck along the boards.

Now, bring on this year and TM is expecting the team to play the same way, along the boards. Guys like Lewis, Richardson, Lokti, Hunter, and Moreau are expected to keep the puck and cycle along the boards, but they are not big enough or talented to do so.

IMO this team should have transitioned to a more speed lineup, with the addition to Gagne and Richards. They need to get away from the "dot to board" play and start playing more in the middle of the ice. Guys like Hunter and Moreau should never be dressed in this lineup. With Hunter and Moreau in the lineup this team has no identity. They are not a big punishing team that will pound you on the boards, and are not fast enough to keep the D backing off their blueline to create opportunities.

Hunter and Moreau were DL's wrong doing IMO. They were the wrong types of players. The current system is on Murray and his inability to adapt his system to "improved" offensive talents.

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11-27-2011, 10:31 PM
  #78
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
That's a fair proviso - for last season. How do you explain the multiple healthy scratches this season along with not scoring in the games that he did play in?

IMO, it's still pretty bizarre any way you slice it ...
The same way you explain all of the other players not named Kopitar and Richards not scoring. The guy was playing on the 3rd and 4th line in most of his games. He isn't alone in the goal drought department with that crew. He is being scratched because I guess TM thought those other players were the better option. Also, since he is coming off a major injury, maybe the coach felt it would give him time to get into "game" shape while seeing limited action.

Like I said, I don't expect it be a long experiment and if it gives the team more balanced scoring in the short term, I'm all for it. The guy can score a bit and if Kopitar can get him a goal and boost his confidence, maybe he'll start playing better? i'm not going to hold my breath on that one but I don't think it is as crazy as people are make it out to be.

Let me ask you again, who would you like to see on the top line in lieu of Hunter? If Hunter is an obvious no-go on the top line, you should be able to have a simple suggestion who to put there. And if you bother answering that, feel free to suggest what your ideal line up would be with the players available.

Glad to see you didn't disagree with the rest of my post though. Or maybe you just didn't read after that?

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11-27-2011, 10:35 PM
  #79
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How does anyone expect balanced scoring when the Kings score less than three goals in the majority of the games? This has been the case for 260+ games. Does anyone expect Hunter to be the #1 RW in the playoffs?

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11-27-2011, 10:40 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
How does anyone expect balanced scoring when the Kings score less than three goals in the majority of the games? This has been the case for 260+ games. Does anyone expect Hunter to be the #1 RW in the playoffs?
Lol, you and your 3 goals scoring.

As for Hunter, I hope he does well enough that he actually earns his spot and stays on the 1st line.

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11-27-2011, 10:43 PM
  #81
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
Honestly it's more the system/coach, not the players. The system is decent enough when you have guys with size like Handzus, Simmer, Frolov, hell even poni playing the puck along the boards.

Now, bring on this year and TM is expecting the team to play the same way, along the boards. Guys like Lewis, Richardson, Lokti, Hunter, and Moreau are expected to keep the puck and cycle along the boards, but they are not big enough or talented to do so.

IMO this team should have transitioned to a more speed lineup, with the addition to Gagne and Richards. They need to get away from the "dot to board" play and start playing more in the middle of the ice. Guys like Hunter and Moreau should never be dressed in this lineup. With Hunter and Moreau in the lineup this team has no identity. They are not a big punishing team that will pound you on the boards, and are not fast enough to keep the D backing off their blueline to create opportunities.

Hunter and Moreau were DL's wrong doing IMO. They were the wrong types of players. The current system is on Murray and his inability to adapt his system to "improved" offensive talents.
I'm not going to disagree with much of what you said but TM is the coach and as long people are going to make comments like "why Hunter?" then there should be an obvious answer of who to put there regardless of who the coach is.

Also, I see people (Herby among others) saying the players aren't that talented on this roster which I totally disagree with and I don't believe they do either. I only am singling out Herby because I know for a fact that he had high expectations for this season and I also believe I remember him commenting positively on the crop of players assembled after this offseason. If the players weren't talented, why would there be high expectations this year? Even PSP has conceded that the personnel on the team is playing below its ability.

If people are of the opinion that it doesn't matter what the lines are as long as we have this coach and/or this personnel, why even comment on what the lines are?

Like I said before, I see people complaining or criticizing all day long but nobody has answer outside of "Fire the coach" or "fire Dean Lombardi". That is great, but after that happens what is the solution? If it is so obvious, then please tell us because I'd really like to know. It is Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.

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11-27-2011, 10:46 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
How does anyone expect balanced scoring when the Kings score less than three goals in the majority of the games? This has been the case for 260+ games. Does anyone expect Hunter to be the #1 RW in the playoffs?
If you are referring to me, I just said that I don't expect the Hunter on the first line experiment to last long. So that should answer your question about him on the top line the playoffs. EDIT: And from some of the comments on here, we should even need to worry about who is playing in the playoffs.

I'm not expecting the team to all of a sudden set the world on fire but I do believe the players are performing worse than they have under Terry Murray in the past. That is all I am saying. I'm hoping to see more than zero goals from the 3rd line. I think if the third line is scoring more than zero goals, that is a good thing.

So like I just said above, if it doesn't matter what the coach does with the lines, why comment on them?

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11-27-2011, 10:46 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Lol, you and your 3 goals scoring.

As for Hunter, I hope he does well enough that he actually earns his spot and stays on the 1st line.
Yeah, too bad you need an offense to win games. Giving up only 2 goals against doesn't do any good if you score 1.

Maybe teams will start taking the Kings lightly again.

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11-27-2011, 10:56 PM
  #84
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I have been advocating using Loktionov at center for some time so I like that move.

Obviously that means Stoll needs to move to RW. I just wasn't expecting that to be on Richards' line, but I think we should wait and see what happens there. Stoll can shoot the puck. Maybe Richards can get him going.

Loktionov needs a player with some kind of skill to play with, and that appears to be Williams at the moment.

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11-27-2011, 10:56 PM
  #85
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So Terry Murray puts a guy on the top line who has been the epitome of aged piss.

Terry Murray also takes JJ off the top PP unit and puts him at the third pairing for god knows why.

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11-27-2011, 11:29 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
That is just all facepalm. It's hard to fathom such changes. Obviously Hunter is the biggest WTF move out of them all. This is not the same guy that scored 25 goals for the Islanders nearly a decade ago... He's only scored more than 35 points once since 2005, and he had his second lowest goal totals and finished the year a -17. I don't care what anybody says, Hunter is not an offensive player. He is now a grinding bottom 6'er, who is now a fringe NHL'er mercenary. I would much rather see someone like Richardson or Lewis there than Hunter.

The next biggest thing is the defensive pairings. I am all down with giving Voynov the nod and promotion, but I can't say that I like the fact that Johnson and Greene are now paired up. Even though Jack has been good for us this year, it is just a recipe for disaster.

The third line is interesting, but I don't think Williams should be down there in the first place. He has been ineffective for a bit now, but I don't think he deserves to be on the bottom 6. I would do:

Brown-Kopitar-Stoll
Gange-Richards-Williams
Clifford-Loktionov-Lewis
Richardson-Fraser-Westgarth

Johnson-Doughty
Mitchell-Voynov
Scuderi-Greene
Can't say I disagree with any of the lines you provided. I don't understand why Lewis and Richardson have been scratched for so many games in a row.

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Old
11-27-2011, 11:36 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
How does anyone expect balanced scoring when the Kings score less than three goals in the majority of the games? This has been the case for 260+ games. Does anyone expect Hunter to be the #1 RW in the playoffs?
I don't expect Hunter to put up #1 RW numbers, no.

However, as long as Murray's system is the one he wants to use, the player distribution has potential of having three lines with some offensive ability.

As I said, I don't think Murray is the answer, by virtue of not having the right personality. This is probably his best opportunity to try to right the ship though.

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11-27-2011, 11:59 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
There is no plausible explanation for Hunter being on the top line.
It has to be a ransom or something. It's all I can think of.

This reeks of desperation.

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Old
11-28-2011, 12:01 AM
  #89
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I honestly don't know what to make of this team and organization anymore. I've stopped really following the team hard core because it's tough to have the obvious problems remain obvious problems indefinitely.

Hunter on the top line is a nice touch though.

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11-28-2011, 12:07 AM
  #90
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I think some of you guys are underestimating Hunter. Just because he didn't score playing on the 4th line and 3rd line doesn't mean he can't score playing on a line with Kopi. Hunter is a former 25 goals scorer. Why don't you guys give the guy a chance before burying him?

In case you haven't noticed, Hunter looked pretty good on a couple of shifts he played with Kopi.

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11-28-2011, 12:58 AM
  #91
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I wonder if players are annoyed by these line changes. I seriously think TM has lost this team.

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11-28-2011, 01:05 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
I think some of you guys are underestimating Hunter. Just because he didn't score playing on the 4th line and 3rd line doesn't mean he can't score playing on a line with Kopi. Hunter is a former 25 goals scorer. Why don't you guys give the guy a chance before burying him?
Guy Lefleur is a former 60 goal scorer - why don't we give him a try then?

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11-28-2011, 01:17 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Hunter is a former 25 goals scorer.

That was 7 years ago. Maybe we can bring in former 50 goal scorers Milan Hejduk or Jonathan Cheechoo or 40 goal scorer Todd Bertuzzi to play on our top line. How about Marek Svatos? He scored 32 goals more recently than Trent Hunter scored 25. Freddy Modin? Anson Carter? They were 30 goal scorers as well. Maybe we can get them back.


Edit: Damn you PSP. Beat me to it while I was doing some research.

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11-28-2011, 01:21 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by VEGASKING View Post
Edit: Damn you PSP. Beat me to it while I was doing some research.
It's a blessing - and a curse

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11-28-2011, 01:27 AM
  #95
HYORI 1963
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You guys are funny.

Some of you guys were suggesting that we give Clifford a shot on the 2nd line early in the season. Clifford, who scored 7 goals in his first nhl season. But heck, you give a 31 yr old veteran who's scored 25 goals his first nhl season a shot on a 1st line and by your reactions, you'd think we just gave him a Doughty contract.

Guys, chillax. Be openminded. Low risk, high reward is how I see it.

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11-28-2011, 01:30 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Terry Murray coaching at its finest.

Miss a wide open net. First line duty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
Sounds like a meme..


I honestly don't know how he'll do on the first line, but I just had to make this.

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11-28-2011, 03:21 AM
  #97
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So Terry Murray puts a guy on the top line who has been the epitome of aged piss.
Agreed but it's difficult to place Brown with creative players since he tries to follow suit instead of playing the simple game he needs to... I'd hesitate to put him with Loktionov centering the third line... If Stoll was there, Brown has played his best hockey with him...

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Old
11-28-2011, 09:30 AM
  #98
Buddy The Elf
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Guy Lefleur is a former 60 goal scorer - why don't we give him a try then?
Still waiting for you to tell us who should be on the first line (and the other 3 for that matter)... guess I'll be waiting a long time.

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11-28-2011, 10:45 AM
  #99
HYORI 1963
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Still waiting for you to tell us who should be on the first line (and the other 3 for that matter)... guess I'll be waiting a long time.
No kidding.

-They seem happy that JW is on the line with Lokti
-Moving Brownie over to the LW hasn't received any complaints
-Stoll over to RW has been requested for a quite awhile

Which leaves us with Richie, Lewis, Westy, Moreau and Hunter.

So, which of these 5 is most deserving?

There's just no pleasing for some of you guys.

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Old
11-28-2011, 10:59 AM
  #100
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
No kidding.

-They seem happy that JW is on the line with Lokti
-Moving Brownie over to the LW hasn't received any complaints
-Stoll over to RW has been requested for a quite awhile

Which leaves us with Richie, Lewis, Westy, Moreau and Hunter.

So, which of these 5 is most deserving?

There's just no pleasing for some of you guys.
Maybe some have seen these same attempts by Murray in the past to "jump-start" his offense and they never work out long term. There is something fundamentally wrong with how the Kings approach their offense. Otherwise all of the roster changes over the past 4 years should show some overall improvement. 30th in 5-on-5 scoring in year one of Murray and very little improvement in year 4. 28th right now.

1/4 of the season is gone and the Kings are currently out of the playoffs. Not exactly what I was hoping for, but with Murray, it isn't shocking to see the Kings struggling to score goals.

The Kings were the ones that proclaimed that "the time is now".

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