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Old
12-16-2011, 03:26 PM
  #126
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Cuddyer to the Rockies on a three year deal.

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12-18-2011, 12:08 PM
  #127
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Allright, time to watch my other favourite pro sports team lose in spectacular fashion

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12-18-2011, 12:46 PM
  #128
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I'll say it now as I did when he was drafted, Ponder was a massive mistake.

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12-18-2011, 01:46 PM
  #129
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I'll say it now as I did when he was drafted, Ponder was a massive mistake.
Well at least we're participating in the suck for Luck.

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Old
12-18-2011, 02:08 PM
  #130
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Well at least we're participating in the suck for Luck.
And the Colts are winning right now...

I'd probably take a QB with this pick regardless.

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12-18-2011, 02:10 PM
  #131
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Ponder looks terrified to throw now, its gonna be awhile before the Vikings are back in the playoffs.

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12-18-2011, 02:16 PM
  #132
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And the Colts are winning right now...

I'd probably take a QB with this pick regardless.
Well I feel bad for whoever that QB is because their O-line has more holes in it than a sieve.

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12-18-2011, 02:19 PM
  #133
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I am gonna wait to judge Ponder until he has a line that can give him more than a half second to stand in the pocket and read the options. By the time he turns back around after a play-action handoff he's running for his life. It's like three d-linemen break through every single snap. An opponent could run a 2-5 defensive formation and still get to the QB damn near every time.

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Old
12-18-2011, 02:23 PM
  #134
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Well I feel bad for whoever that QB is because their O-line has more holes in it than a sieve.
Meh, you let Ponder continue to take abuse and let Barkley/RGIII sit. Then bring in linemen and receiving options around him in the draft/free agency. Regardless, drafting him was a mistake either way you look at it given all the holes on the team. Here's a bit that I wrote elsewhere:

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As for the draft and selecting Ponder, people are kidding himself if they believe the Vikings didn't absolutely bungle that selection (and subsequent Rudolph selection to pair with a developing QB). If the Vikings could objectively analyze their roster and any sort of window they had, no way that selection should have been made. Let alone throwing a rookie QB into the type of team the Vikings currently had/have. Absolute mismanagement at the highest level whether you're talking about Ponder or any other non high end QB at that slot.

Ponder was to be placed in a non-advantageous position from the start. Any capable front office would have analyzed the situation and built up the core of the team so a QB could have something to lean on and be relatively clean. Especially knowing full well that any QB selected in whatever year of the draft would be thrown to the fire early. Not to mention knowing where this team would be drafting in subsequent years and likely having a better shot ar getting a more projectable QB prospect.

That #2 or #3 pick looking for a QB would look pretty good right now. Whether the team drafted Ponder or not last year, this team is so talent poor they were going to be this bad regardless. That's on the front office on so many different levels.

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12-18-2011, 03:07 PM
  #135
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Whoever bet on the Chiefs today made a lot of money. Too bad that person probably doesn't exist.

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12-18-2011, 03:08 PM
  #136
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Whoever bet on the Chiefs today made a lot of money. Too bad that person probably doesn't exist.
It gets better.

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Wow RT @WagerMinds The 4 team MIRACLE $ line parlay hits: Colts win, Chiefs win, Redskins win, Panthers win. $100 pays $20,085

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Old
12-18-2011, 03:11 PM
  #137
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Had to get that INT in there for good measure.

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12-19-2011, 07:37 AM
  #138
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imo if drafting ponder was a mistake, it was a mistake based on the existing team, not ponder himself. I think the kid's going to be great...but the O line HAS to improve

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12-19-2011, 07:43 AM
  #139
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Hard for a QB to develop if all he does is get smacked around by the opposing defense.

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12-19-2011, 09:08 AM
  #140
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And the Colts are winning right now...

I'd probably take a QB with this pick regardless.


From what I've seen of Ponder, he'll develop into a fine quarterback. He just needs a good supporting cast around him and everyone can see what he can be.

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12-19-2011, 09:48 AM
  #141
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Even if Ponder is the biggest mistake in the history of Vikings drafting (he's not), it would be a huge mistake not to draft a left tackle with this year's pick. The best QBs usually aren't selected at the top of the draft. Like goalies in the NHL draft, you can get a good one later if you develop him right. However, good left tackles don't fall later than 10, if even that far. The Vikings aren't one piece away from being decent. There's no sense drafting a player who might carry the team into middling ground for the next 3-5 years, preventing the team from drafting high, while the rest of the roster prevents the team from actually winning.

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12-19-2011, 09:52 AM
  #142
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Even if Ponder is the biggest mistake in the history of Vikings drafting (he's not), it would be a huge mistake not to draft a left tackle with this year's pick. The best QBs usually aren't selected at the top of the draft. Like goalies in the NHL draft, you can get a good one later if you develop him right. However, good left tackles don't fall later than 10, if even that far. The Vikings aren't one piece away from being decent. There's no sense drafting a player who might carry the team into middling ground for the next 3-5 years, preventing the team from drafting high, while the rest of the roster prevents the team from actually winning.
And a good LT can have a decent career length, so there's no reason to not draft one now.

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12-19-2011, 09:52 AM
  #143
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So apparently there are rumors swirling that the D-Backs have signed Kubel.

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Old
12-19-2011, 10:27 AM
  #144
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The problem is, elite left tackles don't ensure a thing about team success. In fact, they have very little do to with success. And that's assuming Kalil is an elite left tackle prospect, which he isn't.

When picking as high as the Vikings are, a team needs to find difference makers. In this refined NFL, while left tackles are important, they have much less impact on a game than some think they do. Teams that are drafting top 5 that select a tackle generally get nowhere fast. Need to find a QB in that spot or another elite level talent at a much more viable position.

Get that talent and address the line with other selections and teams set themselves up much better for success.

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12-19-2011, 10:35 AM
  #145
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The problem is, elite left tackles don't ensure a thing about team success. In fact, they have very little do to with success. And that's assuming Kalil is an elite left tackle prospect, which he isn't.

When picking as high as the Vikings are, a team needs to find difference makers. In this refined NFL, while left tackles are important, they have much less impact on a game than some think they do. Teams that are drafting top 5 that select a tackle generally get nowhere fast. Need to find a QB in that spot or another elite level talent at a much more viable position.

Get that talent and address the line with other selections and teams set themselves up much better for success.
That's a common misconception. The left tackle alone doesn't win games. However, find me a team that has won the Superbowl with a poor offensive line. I'll save you some time, there isn't one. While line play isn't flashy and exciting, it gets you wins. Look at the Bears, they should have been contending for several years, but Cutler can't throw the ball while he's face first in the turf. The Pats? Brady is worthless the moment you get a little dirt on his jersey.

Offensive lines don't necessarily win you games, but you can't win the Lombardi trophy without one.

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Old
12-19-2011, 10:40 AM
  #146
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Likewise, find me a team that has selected a linemen top 5 and improved to the point where they're now successful in the last decade. Take the top teams in the league right now and look at where they've selected their left tackles and the rest of their offensive line.

Left tackle is the single most overvalued position outside of linebacker. This offensive line is absolutely in shambles, but that's more so due to the front office absolutely neglecting it over the past 5 years than anything else. A #2 overall tackle does nothing to change it and when you take a guy like Kalil who isn't a particularly good tackle in an otherwise weak draft, there's going to be issues.

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12-19-2011, 11:01 AM
  #147
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Blackmon or bust imho. The kid is going to be a game changer.

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Old
12-19-2011, 11:03 AM
  #148
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Unless we somehow pick #1 and get Luck, I just think they need to address the O line and defensive back situation. It would take 1-2 years to rebuild those positions at minimum...but at least it would give Ponder a fighting chance.

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12-19-2011, 11:12 AM
  #149
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Likewise, find me a team that has selected a linemen top 5 and improved to the point where they're now successful in the last decade. Take the top teams in the league right now and look at where they've selected their left tackles and the rest of their offensive line.

Left tackle is the single most overvalued position outside of linebacker. This offensive line is absolutely in shambles, but that's more so due to the front office absolutely neglecting it over the past 5 years than anything else. A #2 overall tackle does nothing to change it and when you take a guy like Kalil who isn't a particularly good tackle in an otherwise weak draft, there's going to be issues.
Then go with a CB.

QBs in the first round are a huge crapshoot that more often than not ends in disaster. Here's a quick run down on it (out of date [2009] as it thinks Rodgers is just okay). Spot checking through current "quality" teams, it seems that all the teams that have been consistent winners have long-career linemen. Clifton for the Packers (12 years), Light for the Pats (11 years), and more. The teams that were doing well but have started that downward spiral? Vikes (lost veteran C and LT), Colts (lost much of their line, including veteran C), Bears (lost every lineman worth mentioning), and others.

The bottom line is that a QB can't win if he's constantly being beaten to a pulp (except for Roethlisberger who is apparently not a human being). You need both a QB and protection or you won't be a contender. There's no point in drafting a star QB if you can't protect him.

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12-19-2011, 11:13 AM
  #150
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Then go with a CB.

QBs in the first round are a huge crapshoot that more often than not ends in disaster. Here's a quick run down on it (out of date [2009] as it thinks Rodgers is just okay). Spot checking through current "quality" teams, it seems that all the teams that have been consistent winners have long-career linemen. Clifton for the Packers (12 years), Light for the Pats (11 years), and more. The teams that were doing well but have started that downward spiral? Vikes (lost veteran C and LT), Colts (lost much of their line, including veteran C), Bears (lost every lineman worth mentioning), and others.

The bottom line is that a QB can't win if he's constantly being beaten to a pulp (except for Roethlisberger who is apparently not a human being). You need both a QB and protection or you won't be a contender. There's no point in drafting a star QB if you can't protect him.
David Carr agrees with you.

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