HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Stars vs Avs | I can't believe it's not hockey

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-29-2011, 12:20 PM
  #676
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 12,495
vCash: 500
Jaysus, people...IT'S A BLOG. He has every right to speculate there. It's not a news article. I don't see what he's saying that's so erroneous.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 01:34 PM
  #677
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 11,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Again, then he should stop being a POSER and stop pretending he knows anything...which he does, regularly.
Uh, I'm pretty sure he doesn't make anything up. You've criticized him for not knowing things (i.e. trades) and are now trying to say that he's making up information about Sacco's job security.

Yet, he said the same exact thing about Sacco being safe until the end of the home stand before it began. Five games and a 2-3 record in, Sacco still has a job. And still you're ripping him for "pretending" and being a "poser." Sounds more like you want him to be wrong than you are pointing to anything incorrect he's stated.

shadow1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 03:05 PM
  #678
expatriated_texan
Freaking Loopy
 
expatriated_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Country: United States
Posts: 7,648
vCash: 1125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Jaysus, people...IT'S A BLOG. He has every right to speculate there. It's not a news article. I don't see what he's saying that's so erroneous.
I agree. It's kinda funny that people's anger over the AVs losing and management not replacing their coach, making a trade to make the team better or over trades already made has now turned on the media for reporting that the AVs management doesn't really give candid interviews.

Dater probably over hears some things or is told stuff off the record so he can't be specific. Even when the AVs were a good team the management wasn't very accessible or fan-friendly. We just ate out of their hands back then because we had a winning team we loved. Keep in mind there are two Dater's...one that tries to do a good job for the actual news stories he files*, and the second is the guy that goes home and tries to give a bit more insight to fans with his blogs.

I put the * in there because I think the only thing he could do to get more out of Sacco, players or management would be to create a hostile relationship and start asking more leading questions. ex: "This team is not going anywhere in the standings other than down. Are you simply not doing something to correct it or are you just incapable?" I'm not sure that's the kinda of journalism I want either. Yeah, it might get a spark and a quote or two immediately because it catches someone off guard but it will eventually lead to even more tight-lipped management and more players avoiding him at all costs.

My personal feeling is that there is not one bad person in the AVs management or player personnel. It's just a group of really good people that are not skillful enough to succeed at this level. No way in hell I go out of my way to create an adversarial relationship with good folks for no reason. Dater doesn't need to spoon-feed that kind of information to anyone reading this post. I'm sure everyone here is a pretty avid hockey fan and understands this team is underachieving for a lot of reasons but character isn't one of them. Talent, drive, focus and a sheer fear or hatred of failure might be lacking but in what organization or business have you ever heard anyone say yeah, we lack those things?

Not sure what else he could do other than switch to writing fiction and start reporting about how great the team is and how many wins they are piling up. It's not Dater's fault we all love a terrible team filled with nice-guy losers...or will simply bringing in a new coach actually change all this? Yeah...right. We are not one coach away from a Stanley Cup. We might be one coach away from giving Washington a lottery pick but that doesn't really help the AVs much. In fact, I'd be happier knowing the lottery pick went out East. Just my 20,000 cents worth. Thanks for reading or ignoring me...whatever you prefer.

expatriated_texan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 03:23 PM
  #679
18007
GOAT
 
18007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boone, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,759
vCash: 50
I think Dater's problem is his ego, not his beat writing.


Last edited by 18007: 11-29-2011 at 03:41 PM.
18007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 03:27 PM
  #680
Bubba Thudd
Moderator
Infer-Action!!!
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Avaland
Posts: 14,755
vCash: 7757
Hey ET.

I get what you're saying in that post, and I know you were "disappointed" in me when I created the FIRE SACCO thread. That's cool, we're good. But I'm having a hard time believing that you prefer to keep Sacco rather than getting a different coach? Even if the replacement isn't better than Sacco in the long run, the kids need a change, they need to hear something different, from someone different. We can't keep skidding along the way we have been since last January, can we? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote...

Bubba Thudd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 04:13 PM
  #681
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 12,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Hey ET.

I get what you're saying in that post, and I know you were "disappointed" in me when I created the FIRE SACCO thread. That's cool, we're good. But I'm having a hard time believing that you prefer to keep Sacco rather than getting a different coach? Even if the replacement isn't better than Sacco in the long run, the kids need a change, they need to hear something different, from someone different. We can't keep skidding along the way we have been since last January, can we? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote...
I don't want to speak for the expatriate, but I for one, am all for a Sacco Sacking. Sounds like he is too. Both him and I agree though, that the problems of this team extend far beyond the coach, and a change will merely be the difference between this being a thoroughly horrid team and a merely bad one.

Personally, I have no problem with a FIRE SACCO thread being made...just know that merely changing the bench boss might make for a temporary surge, but not a real improvement. This is a bad team on paper, and on the ice.

Av-merican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 05:51 PM
  #682
expatriated_texan
Freaking Loopy
 
expatriated_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Country: United States
Posts: 7,648
vCash: 1125
I've got no problems with Sacco being replaced, if the GM thinks it is the best move.

Bubba, I was disappointed in you for doing this so soon. Would you have started this thread if Scotty Bowman was behind the bench and we had the same record when you posted it? I think there is a knee-jerk reaction to go negative...some of it I understand some of it I don't. I sometimes think that it doesn't matter who is behind the bench some will feel it is always on the coach which is simply not true. There is not enough talent on this roster to contend for the cup. I don't care who is on the bench...I believe that my opinion on that is in fact...a fact. That being said, the easiest scape goat for all of this is the coach...it's a lot easier to fire one coach rather then an entire roster.

Yeah, for some teams a change of scenery is good (coaching change.) For most folks, myself included, change is not started by a change of scenery. It's started by becoming aware of who you are and how different that is from who you want to be. Sure a coach can tell you there is a disconnect (how many post-games ops do we need to see with Sacco saying our best players need to be our best players) but at some point the change for the better better damn well come from the players. There is no magic coach band-aid to be waived here. No amount of kissing a boo-boo will right this ship. It's on the players. Sure a new coach might give them some new fire...maybe even enough to allow a GM to think, ok...we're on the right track...no big changes until July. Is that really what we want?

expatriated_texan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 08:05 PM
  #683
avspatti
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 625
vCash: 500
IN reply to the idea of all the players going to management about the coach . . . Seriously, does that ever happen? Maybe it does, and we just never hear about it.

avspatti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 08:10 PM
  #684
expatriated_texan
Freaking Loopy
 
expatriated_texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Country: United States
Posts: 7,648
vCash: 1125
Quote:
Originally Posted by avspatti View Post
IN reply to the idea of all the players going to management about the coach . . . Seriously, does that ever happen? Maybe it does, and we just never hear about it.
It happens in books and movies...never in the NHL.

Every player is paid more than what what they would get working at Sears or a car dealership. They would never collectively give that up. In fact it would hurt them collectively when it comes to a CBA.

expatriated_texan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 08:39 PM
  #685
Bubba Thudd
Moderator
Infer-Action!!!
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Avaland
Posts: 14,755
vCash: 7757
Ex Tex,

I wouldn't can a guy like Scotty Bowman if he had a start to the season like we've had. Joe Sacco is no Scotty Bowman, though.

And I don't think it was a knee-jerk reaction that caused me to start this thread "early", either. Like many have said earlier in the thread, it was a seething anger that built up last season, all summer, and continued into this year. Nothing but empty promises for our loyal devotion.

How is it that we look better on paper than we did last year...that our defense looks more solid than last year...that our forward prospects should be better than they were last year...that our goaltending should be better than last year...and yet the product on the ice is no better?

The guys came out of the gate with high hopes, optimism, and a desire to give all they had. And it showed on the first road trip. But then the team began to slip back right through mediocrity, to wallow in suckitude.

Once again, they have no confidence, are falling apart as a team, are likely turning on each other. That's not positive growth. It's worse than staying the same. It's detrimental to the team, and to the players as individuals.

The Avalanche ship is sailing straight into the same maelstrom of caustic waters that it got bogged down in last year. And who's at the helm? Joe Sacco. He's gotta go for the sake of the guys as a team, as players, and as human beings.

I've already stated in other threads/posts that a new coach -- particularly if it's not the right coach -- is only a short-term boost, a temporary spark. But if it gets the guys on the same page, gets them playing as a team instead of a bunch of individuals skating willy-nilly all over the ice, it's a step worth taking.

Obviously the problem extends beyond just the head coach. The power play -- while being tops in the league for a while -- is disorganized, and just plain lucky to have had some modicum of success. There is no offensive scheme other than dump-and-sorta-chase, there is no effective defensive strategy, the goaltending coaching apparently is lacking. The whole coaching squad should go.

A fair share of the results we've seen falls squarely on the shoulders of the players, too. But I can understand them not producing if they are demoralized, battered -- mentally and emotionally moreso than physically -- and feeling like they have to do everything individually because there truly is no decent system in place.

Before we start trading players (and I think we can all agree that Sherman is not the savviest GM when it comes to trades), we need to right the ship. That starts with the man at the helm -- Sacco. Find out which players are capable of turning it around, and which are just slackers. Shouldn't be too many slackers if they do indeed have the character that the FO has been touting.

Get a coach with a workable system.
Assess which players can and will work within that system.
Make player changes as needed.
Profit*


*or, start again if need be.

But more of the same ol' Sacco behind the bench is only going to produce more of the same ol' loss and frustration on the ice.

Bubba Thudd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 08:53 PM
  #686
Yipperfan
NWOBHM forever \m/
 
Yipperfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Québec, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,886
vCash: 500
The AVS have the worst record in the NHL since the last All-star break. The. Worst. Record.

Fire Sacco!

Yipperfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2011, 09:15 PM
  #687
Adama0905
Registered User
 
Adama0905's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 9,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
I've got no problems with Sacco being replaced, if the GM thinks it is the best move.

Bubba, I was disappointed in you for doing this so soon. Would you have started this thread if Scotty Bowman was behind the bench and we had the same record when you posted it? I think there is a knee-jerk reaction to go negative...some of it I understand some of it I don't. I sometimes think that it doesn't matter who is behind the bench some will feel it is always on the coach which is simply not true. There is not enough talent on this roster to contend for the cup. I don't care who is on the bench...I believe that my opinion on that is in fact...a fact. That being said, the easiest scape goat for all of this is the coach...it's a lot easier to fire one coach rather then an entire roster.

Yeah, for some teams a change of scenery is good (coaching change.) For most folks, myself included, change is not started by a change of scenery. It's started by becoming aware of who you are and how different that is from who you want to be. Sure a coach can tell you there is a disconnect (how many post-games ops do we need to see with Sacco saying our best players need to be our best players) but at some point the change for the better better damn well come from the players. There is no magic coach band-aid to be waived here. No amount of kissing a boo-boo will right this ship. It's on the players. Sure a new coach might give them some new fire...maybe even enough to allow a GM to think, ok...we're on the right track...no big changes until July. Is that really what we want?
Scotty Bowman has a huge track record for success. Joe Sacco doesn't even have a track record in the AHL of any success. He has one mediocre playoff season under his belt. That's why the knee jerk reaction.

Adama0905 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.