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11-27-2011, 10:45 PM
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Whiskeypete
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You are the GM. Your next move is......

OK so after every game and PGT there are many opinions, suggestions, questions, facts, etc thrown out there. Let's play the 'you are now the Kings GM' game. Name YOUR top 1, 4, 5, actionable items, reasons why and expected results/time frame for the team at this point. How ever many you want, but each one must have supporting argument and a case to prove your point.

Don't throw out the usual 'Murray's system sucks' without the supporting evidence or valid reason. I think many of us have terrific points and reasons, so let's put it into one conclusive thread. In the real world of business we do it every day, its how the rest of 9 to 5'ers make a living each day. It's called making a 'business case'.

We are talking about Deano's role, so forget the 'fire DL' nonsense. He isn't going to fire himself and we aren't playing the role of Tim L. As the GM you can point out areas you can improve upon yourself.

My top items. Urgency is immediate and must be addressed within the next 10 games or less. The team is underachieving at this point and seems to be losing ground. Inconsistent play and effort from one game to the next. I can not wait on or evaluate to long, or season may be lost.
-coaching staff
-current roster
-AHL, ECHL assets
-team play, system adjustment

Coaching-Motivation-Lack of Effort
To me the most concerning problem that is evident is lack of consistency and effort every night. This is the ONE thing my coach can control each and every shift - effort. This is the one thing my players can also control each and every shift. If this is a problem, what is the cause? Why is this? Is it players taking a night off without fear of repercussions? Is it coaches expectations of said player being to high? Is it players not getting messages or worse, shutting off the coaches?

I am going to first meet with my coach to get his assessment of the situation. I will then meet with his assistants for their viewpoints and suggestions. Not only on the current state of affairs, but what they feel we can do to improve lines of communication and results. There is clearly a lack of communication in my opinion someplace at this level.

For the next few games, all practices and possibly some off ice activities I will watch and evaluate firsthand. Is what the coaches told me panning out as they describe? I have to as quickly and as accurately make a call here as I can. I need as much input and different viewpoints brought to my attention as possible.

Next, I will meet with the team leaders to get their viewpoint and compare to my notes and the coaches. From here I need to make myself visible and available at practice and before/after games. I need to see and hear firsthand to get a feel for the pulse of the team. This is crucial in order to piece all the different views and opinions together. Now I must rely on MY gut instinct. I put together my findings and the facts as I see them currently.

Next I meet with the coaches and team leaders. I lay out MY findings and where I see the team today. Where are we short and what will transpire next. Give them a chance to offer solutions to the issues at hand. You are either "part of the problem, or you are part of the solution". Lay out the course of action moving forward. For starters if they don't already, everyone is graded each game. Players and coaches. Expectation and results aren't regularly met, then you get a plane ticket.

I can't send guys up and down every other game, so what benchmarks do I put in place for them to meet and be graded against? 5 games? 10 games? half a season? vets get an extended period? or everyone gets the same, vet or rookie?

Players are going to be moved if they do not meet expectations and goals. If they are expected to produce 20G per season and at the quarter mark only have 1-2G they clearly aren't producing on pace as expected. As an organization we cannot continue to strive for mediocrity, under performance and complacency.

No longer will the old adage of "an injury will not cost you your roster spot" be in play. Moving forward if you are injured and the player replacing you has produced better results, that player will remain in that position. The roster spot you will keep is on the bottom line and you can earn your spot back by results. Competition drives results, competition breeds success.

If coaches are not accomplishing specific benchmarks then they will be replaced. They are there to lead, coach and develop talent. If the team is constantly struggling, why/what are my coaches doing that could be the cause of this?

At this juncture I see lack of effort and consistency is due entirely to lack of accountability and complacency within the system. As the GM I must change this and move forward with a system that breeds results and accountability for both players and coaches.


Current Roster
At this point each player is re-slotted into expected roles and expectations. If they are slotted in as a #3RW, then expectations must meet this role. If they are expected to contribute 10-15G a year, is the player on track to make this total? If they are under performing then what can we do to improve the player? Do they need more practice time, drills, specific skill drills? Sent to AHL to work on all this and get more TOI?

If a player is under performing they are going down to MAN. Players must know they are accountable and if they don't hold up their part of the puzzle, then they will be sent down.

In the past I have not moved players up and down because we did not have depth within our system. This has changed and each year we continue to get deeper, which gives me options that I didn't have in the past. I now must move players up and down based on performance, not just due to injury situations. This gives players both in LA and MAN the opportunity to perform and at the same time learn the accountability factor. No longer will players in MAN sit unused, no longer will players in LA remain on the roster while under achieving.


Team Strategy, systems & roster
Currently my team plays a defense first mentality, with an offense based on a dump-n-grind shot mentality. This wins us games against lesser skilled opponents, but we clearly have problems on most nights against teams that play a puck possession style. At the same time the current roster has more skill than it had in past years.

It is obvious we are getting caught into situations that other teams are using to their advantage against us. Against which teams is this happening? What are my coaches doing to counter these teams?

Is my roster of 23 and next 10 replacements match our offensive & defensive strategies. What players and skill sets do we need? Who/what roles do I need to add?

The past few years my most effective players when it comes to the dump n grind are all gone. Yet we try to play the same game now, but don't have the same skill set to make this doable. Who and where am I going to get to replace these holes in my line-up?

If I am unable to 'land' players comparable to what I have lost, then what's the next move? We can't keep trying to do what we did, with the wrong personnel. It's the old 'square peg-round hole' adage.

We have to adapt and put our players into a system that best fits their skill set. We have a few guys that can dump n grind, so let's keep them together. They play the same game, they think alike. A third or fourth line playing this style is the best LA can put out there at this time. We also have enough 'pieces' to put out a speed line each game, so let's put them out there and keep them together.

Moving forward initially my coaching staff is going to field MY lines and let them run. I want to roll four lines with distinct personality and style. It makes it harder for the other team to counter, which will help counter the issues we have against the top teams.

1- Penner-Kopi-Williams
2- Gagne-Richards-Brown/Stoll
3- Parse-Lokti/Lewis-Richardson
4- Clifford-Fraser-Moreau/Stoll/Hunter/Westie

The #1 gets slotted this way due to our limited resources at LW. The best Penner looked with LA was in this configuration. The three of them showed some degree of chemistry and each one's game self supports his line mates. Penner is on a short leash to produce, essentially a ten game tryout at this point. The downside to this is it may curtail Kopi's output for 10-games, but at this point we have to try get Penner on track. This will give him and the club the best chance of success imo.

The #2 slides Gagne alongside his old line mate MR. They did it before and they can do it again. I don't look at it as punishment for Gagne, but the immediate urgency we have as a team to get Penner going. We look at Brown and Stoll playing down the right side. My first preference is for Stoll to rise up and play this spot. The guy has hands and can score from 15' in, so let's put him in a situation where he gets more shots in tight. Stoll is terrific as a face-off specialist, but he isn't a creative playmaker and he hasn't shown the prowess as a defensive center to date. If you aren't either of these as a centerman, then why keep him in the middle? Brown can fit in here also as the primary body in front of the net. He is a big body, but can't be relied on when it comes to zone entry and puck possession. He is good at three things - taking the body, finishing in close and grinding half boards/corner play.

The top two lines have the skill set and personnel to play a puck possession style of play and also a dump-n-chase system. They can adapt on the fly to how the competition is playing them. These lines have the skill to play a give-n-go cycle puck possession style, rather than a muck-n-grind style. These lines also have some 'beef' on them that can punish opposing players on the forecheck, leading to turnovers.

The #3 and #4 lines are murky when it comes to personnel and what is expected of them. Flip them either way, but essentially LA can field a speed line and an energy line (or w/e you want to call them). Going into the season it was hoped that LA could roll four lines that produced offense, it's evident we aren't quite there yet. So instead we will put two opposing lines out there that will cause match up issues for the opponent. It isn't revolutionary or ground breaking, but it mixes up how teams can match up against us. Currently our bottom two lines are a hodge-podge of guys that don't seem to support one another that well when it comes to comparable skills.

The #3 will be a speed line. It is out there (hopefully against the 3rd D pairing), looking to play against D-men that aren't quite fleet of foot. Let's face it the top D pairs (1 & 2) are going against the Kopi and MR lines. So let's put out our fastest guys against what likely will be their slowest guys. Put our guys in the best position to succeed. Since we don't have a lot of speed on this team, the options are limited. Parse on the LW (face it he isn't going to be a top 6 and pray for no more injuries), who has this season to produce and stay healthy. LA can't keep committing time and money into him as a project. Granted it isn't a lot of money, but at some point you've got to "fish or cut bait". At center Lokti slides in where he should be and likely will be for years, so let's get it done sooner than later. Quite fiddling around with the kid and put him where he belongs. Say he belongs down the middle, but then throw him on the wings. To me he looks totally different playing center than the wing. On the wing he over analyzes and tries to do to much. Down the middle he's seeing the play, the gaps and makes his play quickly. Richie or DB on the RW, Richie can play on the LW side while Parse is out. Richie is about speed. it's about him getting up ice and causing turnovers, or stretching the opposing D on the transition. He can do this from either side. I really like DB here because the guy does have some good wheels. At the same time he can bring his physicality to this line which the other two don't have, so it helps round the line out. Then put his big frame and ability to score up close, it just complements the line further. DB would improve the #3 line far more than he will improve the #2 line, it's that simple. Lewis, well he may be the odd man out. He looked good the last part of last season and in the playoffs, but this year he frankly hasn't shown much.

The #4 line is put out there to punish and punish. Notch the occasional goal and not take stupid penalties. Ironically, Fraser (the guy to be named later and soon to be cut) has been the most solid player on the fourth line. Lewis looked okay in this role last year, but the line is being changed over to one that punishes the opposing D first and foremost. Clifford is put back into a role like last season of just being able to forecheck and cause turnovers. He is also matched with two line mates that take up more space giving him room to operate (just like Zus and Simmer did). On the RW you fill in Moreau/Westie/Hunter. Personally I think Moreau (stupid penalties aside) has been the most consistent guy.

AHL & ECHL assets
This past summer was horribly managed when it comes to top prospects. Many defected to play over in Europe at this point, because of the lack of opportunity. At this particular point in time, there are opportunities some of these players could have had in LA. As an organization we need to insure this doesn't happen again. Moving forward with on going player grading and accountability, we hope to correct this.

NHL roster, waives, trades, etc.
The following players are moved to an immediate trade/waive/AHL status. These are all short-term and immediate results
-Hunter (waive or send to MAN)
-Penner (trade first, pray for some return on this bad trade. short leash)
-Drewiskie (no longer serves depth purpose, trade or send to MAN)
-Parse (short leash, send to MAN)
-Clifford (short leash, send to MAN)

enough for now...mind is wandering and running on at this point. give it a stab put together YOUR business case for what the GM should be doing right now for the Kings.

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11-27-2011, 10:47 PM
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Shellz
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Not read all of this.

Give Stevens the nod.

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11-27-2011, 10:49 PM
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Sign Murray to a lifetime contract. Build display case for Stanley Cup rings.

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11-27-2011, 10:50 PM
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The Black1963
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Didn't read any of it but a "no" on Stevens and then fire Shellz.

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11-27-2011, 10:54 PM
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Shellz
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Didn't read any of it but a "no" on Stevens and then fire Shellz.
But, helllooo..... my reasons are logical.

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11-27-2011, 10:57 PM
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Whiskeypete
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http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/72...ina-hurricanes

just saw this on espn after posting. interesting how similar of a situation CAR and Rutherford is facing currently

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11-27-2011, 11:14 PM
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Jason Lewis
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Fire Murray
I'd actually like to see what someone like Craig McTavish could do with this team.

Waive Hunter
Trade Penner
bring up Cliche/Nolan
Unload Moreau somehow

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11-28-2011, 08:56 AM
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About all I'd do right now is fire Murray and hire Bruce Boudreau. Let BB spend 5-10 games with the team before deciding on next move.

And come on, we love the same initials in players (DD, DD44, VV, TT) so BB is a natural fit here

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11-28-2011, 09:33 AM
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I hope we fire Murray and replace him with ex. Kings player and now ass. coach in Penguins, Tony Granato! Then fire Stevens and replace him with Adam Deadmarsh. Deadmarsh also has a connection to the LA Kings, and today he is ass. coach in Colorado Avalanche.

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11-28-2011, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
I hope we fire Murray and replace him with ex. Kings player and now ass. coach in Penguins, Tony Granato! Then fire Stevens and replace him with Adam Deadmarsh. Deadmarsh also has a connection to the LA Kings, and today he is ass. coach in Colorado Avalanche.
I think Tony Granato is lost as a head coach. The record you seen in his second stint with Colorado is much more reflective of his skill than the first go around when he had a loaded Avs lineup.

Deadmarsh would be interesting, but I don't know enough about his performance as a coach to say I'd actually want to hire him.

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11-28-2011, 10:14 AM
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Butch 19
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Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
I hope we fire Murray and replace him with ex. Kings player and now ass. coach in Penguins, Tony Granato! Then fire Stevens and replace him with Adam Deadmarsh. Deadmarsh also has a connection to the LA Kings, and today he is ass. coach in Colorado Avalanche.
I wouldn't want any ex-King players as coach.

Too much emotional baggage.

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11-28-2011, 10:14 AM
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Whiskeypete
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Granato i am still intrigued by. his second stint in COL he had a roster that was on the backside of the old folks home. it was a mix of the old vets that won Cups and young kids that just started shaving. that is a difficult mix for a coach to manage, especially one with limited experience like he had at that point in his career.

the other guy i am intrigued by is John Hynes. the AHL coach for Wilkes Barre. talk about a guy that got max out of his players the past year or so. PIT was decimated with injuries, which means WB lost a good portion of their players to PIT. here is his bio from the Pens site

"John Hynes enjoyed a remarkable season in his first year as head coach of Wilkes-Barre/Scranton of the American Hockey League in 2010-11.

Despite playing with a depleted lineup due to callups to Pittsburgh, which suffered 350 man-games lost, Hynes coached WBS to an impressive 58-21-0-1 record, leading the franchise to its first-ever Macgregor Kilpatrick Trophy as AHL regular-season champions. Wilkes-Barre/Scranton’s 58 wins are the second most in AHL history. For his efforts, Hynes won the Louis A.R. Pieri Award as the AHL’s Outstanding Coach.

Hynes, 36, served as an assistant coach in WBS in 2009-10, his first year within the Penguins organization, working under current Pittsburgh assistant coach Todd Reriden.

Prior to joining WBS, Hynes spent the past six seasons as a head coach with USA Hockey’s National Development Team Program, posting an overall record of 216-113-19-9. In 2008-09 he was head coach of the U.S. Under-17 Development Team, going 42-17-6.

Hynes has enjoyed great success on the international stage, leading the U.S. Under-18 National Team to three medals at the World Under-18 Championships - gold in 2006, silver in 2004 and bronze in 2008."

the guy has produced to date at every level. last year he highly overachieved with a roster that was constantly turning over. also shows he knows how to work with young players and develop them.

from what ive been able to piece together he is the same type of coach as Bylsma and Granato. they aren't screamers, they expect results and are even keeled.

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11-28-2011, 10:40 AM
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Granato i am still intrigued by. his second stint in COL he had a roster that was on the backside of the old folks home. it was a mix of the old vets that won Cups and young kids that just started shaving. that is a difficult mix for a coach to manage, especially one with limited experience like he had at that point in his career.

the other guy i am intrigued by is John Hynes. the AHL coach for Wilkes Barre. talk about a guy that got max out of his players the past year or so. PIT was decimated with injuries, which means WB lost a good portion of their players to PIT. here is his bio from the Pens site

"John Hynes enjoyed a remarkable season in his first year as head coach of Wilkes-Barre/Scranton of the American Hockey League in 2010-11.

Despite playing with a depleted lineup due to callups to Pittsburgh, which suffered 350 man-games lost, Hynes coached WBS to an impressive 58-21-0-1 record, leading the franchise to its first-ever Macgregor Kilpatrick Trophy as AHL regular-season champions. Wilkes-Barre/Scranton’s 58 wins are the second most in AHL history. For his efforts, Hynes won the Louis A.R. Pieri Award as the AHL’s Outstanding Coach.

Hynes, 36, served as an assistant coach in WBS in 2009-10, his first year within the Penguins organization, working under current Pittsburgh assistant coach Todd Reriden.

Prior to joining WBS, Hynes spent the past six seasons as a head coach with USA Hockey’s National Development Team Program, posting an overall record of 216-113-19-9. In 2008-09 he was head coach of the U.S. Under-17 Development Team, going 42-17-6.

Hynes has enjoyed great success on the international stage, leading the U.S. Under-18 National Team to three medals at the World Under-18 Championships - gold in 2006, silver in 2004 and bronze in 2008."

the guy has produced to date at every level. last year he highly overachieved with a roster that was constantly turning over. also shows he knows how to work with young players and develop them.

from what ive been able to piece together he is the same type of coach as Bylsma and Granato. they aren't screamers, they expect results and are even keeled.
Interesting candidate. I'm not interested in Granato, but I've long advocated we look outside the NHL ranks for a coach, something LA has done little of in its history, outside of Barry Melrose.

I only know Hynes from what you've posted here, but 58 wins is impressive, injuries or not. 11-5-5 this year is good too.

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11-28-2011, 10:43 AM
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1. Tell TM he has 10 games to establish a more open & offensive style of play. Get a new assistant if necessary.
2. Tell TM that Moreau and Hunter are bench depth - Richardson and Lewis need to play.
3. Trade Penner for anything, or waive him. (Sends a message.)
4. Voynov and Loktionov stay forever.
5. Try to package Bernier & Stoll for a winger.

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11-28-2011, 10:57 AM
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I did actually read your post in its entirety - quite comprehensive, but I do have a number of questions.

1. Wouldn't you expect that the vast majority of your assessment phase would have been done on a regular basis by the current regime?

2. I'm not sure that you could get an honest answer out of the assistant coaches and some of the players. Criticizing the coach or the system without knowing which way this was going to go could be a ticket on the next train out of Dodge.

3. You said that you would ship underperforming players to Manchester - if that happened, the vast majority of those players would have to go through reentry waivers, so you would risk losing them

4. You list 5 players that would be out the door or gone to Manchester immediately - who replaces them?

5. Are we assuming that TM would be gone or would that depend on your assessment? I don't know if TM is flexible enough philosophically to coach each line differently. The coach that you just suggested sounds interesting as a potential replacement. That's the kind of guy who DL needs to research and stop with the retreads.

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11-28-2011, 10:58 AM
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I've long advocated we look outside the NHL ranks for a coach,
This. I lol when people say, "Well who is to replace TM then there are no coaches anywhere!".

Where do you think NHL coaches come from? The North American system.

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11-28-2011, 01:37 PM
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KINGS17
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Bud Holloway where art thou?

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11-28-2011, 01:40 PM
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Bud Holloway where art thou?
Making a million bucks and tagging some Swedish tail with the little Viking Oscar Moller.

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11-28-2011, 01:42 PM
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Making a million bucks and tagging some Swedish tail with the little Viking Oscar Moller.
Does his wife know? I think the guy got married and wanted the guaranteed cash in the bank, and I don't blame him for that.

He is missing a golden opportunity though. Can't say I wouldn't have done the same.

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11-28-2011, 02:12 PM
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Whiskeypete
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I did actually read your post in its entirety - quite comprehensive, but I do have a number of questions.

1. Wouldn't you expect that the vast majority of your assessment phase would have been done on a regular basis by the current regime?

2. I'm not sure that you could get an honest answer out of the assistant coaches and some of the players. Criticizing the coach or the system without knowing which way this was going to go could be a ticket on the next train out of Dodge.

3. You said that you would ship underperforming players to Manchester - if that happened, the vast majority of those players would have to go through reentry waivers, so you would risk losing them

4. You list 5 players that would be out the door or gone to Manchester immediately - who replaces them?

5. Are we assuming that TM would be gone or would that depend on your assessment? I don't know if TM is flexible enough philosophically to coach each line differently. The coach that you just suggested sounds interesting as a potential replacement. That's the kind of guy who DL needs to research and stop with the retreads.
1- i would hope so. if it isn't being done currently it would certainly explain a lot of the current decision making processes when it comes to line-ups and roster.

2- point taken. the same as our rl's in the workplace. on the flip side though there are always people willing to speak up, so change takes place. leaders will take charge and look to improve situations to the benefit of themselves and others. the fact that this is pro team and their workplace is drastically different, i just can't see these guys willing to sit still. pro athletes strive for results and expectations, they are some of the most highly motivated people out there. can you honestly say that this entire squad would sit silent?

3- some assets would possibly be lost on the wire. seriously though what is the team losing? in most cases fringe players that can't stay on the roster long-term and contribute, which is why they are being sent down. yes it would cost some depth with the vets, but the younger guys are going to clear through. if we lose the likes of Hunter, DD44, Moreau i am fine with that and my guess is 98% of the rest of the fans are also. the guys like AMart are the ones that DL needs to be shopping, so they aren't lost.

4- for starters LA still has Lewis and Richie sitting in the press box. two of the only guys with any degree of speed on the roster. they should be in and playing together. i pray that Clifford finds his game, because we need him. i see Parse (when/if he returns as a short-term solution) playing with Lewis and Richie on a speed line. that leaves essentially one maybe two spots open on the fourth line with Fraser centering. i see the Moreau/hunter/Westie log jam as all the same interchangeable part at thisstage.

LA frankly is carrying a log jam of the same players at this point, so they don't need to replace anyone. short term that is. the disaster that is Penner I pray we can get Parise which will completely eliminate the disaster that is LA's #1 LW situation. then it's a matter of figuring out the LW spots on the #3 & 4 lines. the #4 RW spot. there is work to do, but it isn't going to be resolved likely until this summer. there are still MAN kids that seriously need to be given the opp at this level. to this point TMu has done zero when it comes to helping develop the kids.

5- whether Murray stays or goes depends on two things. first is the consensus agreement among the players. if the guys are unwilling to play for him, then he is gone. if the players still believe in him and will play for him, then it comes down to talking about where this club needs to evolve to. he gets X games to turn this around and show he is willing to compromise and put new tactics into place. he fails, he is gone. at the end of the season all of this is done again, to insure the team and coach is on the same page.

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11-28-2011, 02:27 PM
  #21
kingsholygrail
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11-28-2011, 02:35 PM
  #22
Buddy The Elf
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Lets see, I'd fire the coach, then I'd fire myself. Then I'd sign up for an account on HF boards or LGK and watch as the fans line up to ridicule my predecessor.

I just pray that whatever happens with Murray/DL that at the end of the day, the Kings still have Kopitar, Richards, Doughty, Johnson, Quick and Bernier. I could honestly give a rats ass about what happens to the rest of the players if there is a change in management. I don't think most of the players need to go but I'd be very upset if any of that group is sent packing with the exception of Bernier for the right deal. I still think you keep both goalies until you are forced to move one.

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11-28-2011, 02:43 PM
  #23
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Does his wife know? I think the guy got married and wanted the guaranteed cash in the bank, and I don't blame him for that.

He is missing a golden opportunity though. Can't say I wouldn't have done the same.

I think that's ******** honestly.


You play hockey your whole life with the aspiration of being an NHL player.

You're making 55k in the minors, and you are literally the top guy on the team. You are likely to be called up or have a legitimate shot at the NHL next season where you will make a league min of 550k.


And then you decide to cut and run to Europe because you "just got married and need the money right now?"

I'm sorry you can live all right on 55k. And even better on 550k. This was all about Holloway being a *****.

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11-28-2011, 04:01 PM
  #24
PSP
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Originally Posted by Jaygokings View Post
I think that's ******** honestly.


You play hockey your whole life with the aspiration of being an NHL player.

You're making 55k in the minors, and you are literally the top guy on the team. You are likely to be called up or have a legitimate shot at the NHL next season where you will make a league min of 550k.


And then you decide to cut and run to Europe because you "just got married and need the money right now?"

I'm sorry you can live all right on 55k. And even better on 550k. This was all about Holloway being a *****.
No, this is about Holloway maturing. Dreams are nice, but they don't pay the bills

$55K is probably fine for a bachelor living in New Hampshire, but not if you are ever planning to have a family. There's no guarantee that he would ever get a callup - and if he did, how long would he stay up. He's still young - if he can make NHL-like dollars for the next 2 or 3 seasons while putting up decent results, he'll be able to come back to the NHL and sign a one-way contract

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11-28-2011, 04:06 PM
  #25
Albi
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Hire John Travolta from Pulp Fiction and ask him to have dinner with Murray and Mini Murray (Stevens).

Then hire Ted Nolan.

Then get a decent 3rd liner.

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