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Pacioretty gets 3 games for hit on Letang

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11-29-2011, 08:40 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
3 games is fair. Not a dirty hit as much as a reckless one.
Yup. It's comforting to know that Pacioretty didn't have ill intent, but he's gotta be more careful.

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11-29-2011, 08:55 AM
  #52
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Tell that to Eric Lindros after he was knocked into the next century. Sorry for the double post.


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11-29-2011, 09:04 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
This is a fallacy that's been perpetuated every time one of these hits happens. Stevens squared up to nearly every one of the players he hit.I'm not saying he didn't contacted the head, but he didn't only contact the head. Now we've got plays like this one where the guy making the hit doesn't even make contact with any other part of the offensive player's body, because they don't square up. Guys are trying to make these big hits but want to do it be sliding/skirting by instead of meeting a guy square.
It was definetly not a fallacy. Tell that to Eric Lindros. I don't think he would agree. That hit on Lindros would get a major suspension today. I saw many of Stevens hits and a lot were head shots because he hit guys when their heads were down looking the other way. But in those days as long as you kept your arms down and led with your shoulders it was deamed a legal hit no matter if you hit the guy in the head or not.

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11-29-2011, 09:04 AM
  #54
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Habs fan here. Suspension well deserved in my opinion. That kind of play has to be eliminated from the game.

My only issue was with the explanation. Shanahan states that Pacioretty "maliciously targeted the head". There is no doubt that the head was the point of contact, but there is no way he is going to convince me that Pacioretty intended to hit Letang in the head. It was a simple miscalculation on his part, and he should have been more responsible.

This situation has made me appreciate the kind of player Letang is even more now. Talk about a warrior.

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11-29-2011, 09:08 AM
  #55
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Thought that was Shanny's best decision. It was a well put together video. It sends a message but isn't ridiculous.
Agree - I think this is the right move.

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11-29-2011, 09:17 AM
  #56
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I don't understand how Deveaux gets only 3 games for what he did. Pacioretty was trying to throw a hit, Deveaux was trying to throw an elbow.

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11-29-2011, 09:21 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
Habs fan here. Suspension well deserved in my opinion. That kind of play has to be eliminated from the game.

My only issue was with the explanation. Shanahan states that Pacioretty "maliciously targeted the head". There is no doubt that the head was the point of contact, but there is no way he is going to convince me that Pacioretty intended to hit Letang in the head. It was a simple miscalculation on his part, and he should have been more responsible.

This situation has made me appreciate the kind of player Letang is even more now. Talk about a warrior.
I think Shanahan was saying that because of Pacioretty's shifting his weight to cut across Letang as Tanger was shooting, instead of just going for a shoulder-to-shoulder hit. That's what he was getting at, I think, not that Patches was aiming at Letang's head the whole time.

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11-29-2011, 09:55 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
It was definetly not a fallacy. Tell that to Eric Lindros. I don't think he would agree. That hit on Lindros would get a major suspension today. I saw many of Stevens hits and a lot were head shots because he hit guys when their heads were down looking the other way. But in those days as long as you kept your arms down and led with your shoulders it was deamed a legal hit no matter if you hit the guy in the head or not.
Feel free to read my post again. Didn't say Stevens didn't blow people up. Didn't say he didn't contact the head. Said that by hitting squarely he contacted the other player's entire body with his entire body. Some would be worthy of suspensions, I guess. The key difference, which I guess you missed, was the predispotion of today's player to glance or clip another player rather than squaring up to deliver a hit. When you play that way, you're going to impact specific body parts (like the head), whether you intend to or not.

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Old
11-29-2011, 10:12 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I don't understand how Deveaux gets only 3 games for what he did. Pacioretty was trying to throw a hit, Deveaux was trying to throw an elbow.
THIS a thousand times! Come on, there's a HUGE difference between making a hockey play and giving a cheapshot. Come on, Shanny! You're all over the map now with these suspensions.

For the record, I HATE the fact that the Pacioretty hit on Letang is now a suspendable offense. A player in the slot area with his head somewhat down and completely unaware of his surroundings HAS to be hit in that situation. Especially since it's a scoring chance! So now, the defenseman has to basically thread the needle when he goes to hit him. There are like 75 things that can go wrong when the player lines him up there, and suddenly you're facing the music.

That all said, it WAS part of Rule 48 so I guess it's a fair suspension. The rule still sucks, though.

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11-29-2011, 10:12 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Feel free to read my post again. Didn't say Stevens didn't blow people up. Didn't say he didn't contact the head. Said that by hitting squarely he contacted the other player's entire body with his entire body. Some would be worthy of suspensions, I guess. The key difference, which I guess you missed, was the predispotion of today's player to glance or clip another player rather than squaring up to deliver a hit. When you play that way, you're going to impact specific body parts (like the head), whether you intend to or not.
This is a great point. Scott Stevens was dangerous because he lined guys up perfectly and powered through them. Shanahan has mentioned (to lazy to find the link) that the only classic Stevens hit that might be suspendable under the new rules is Stevens-Kariya. And even the hit is only questionable because it's a late hit; it's still a full body check.

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11-29-2011, 10:15 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
This is a great point. Scott Stevens was dangerous because he lined guys up perfectly and powered through them. Shanahan has mentioned (to lazy to find the link) that the only classic Stevens hit that might be suspendable under the new rules is Stevens-Kariya. And even the hit is only questionable because it's a late hit; it's still a full body check.
Well then every single NHL player has to go to "Scott Stevens School" on their summer vacation to learn how to hit the Stevens way. Because there's a LOT of players who are good at lining guys up for the hit. But players today are more agile and will try anything possible to escape that hit (instead of taking it).

Maybe Stevens was just a hell of a lot luckier back in his day. Maybe guys just knew how to take a hit better. Maybe this part of the game is the biggest grey area that exists nowadays.

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11-29-2011, 10:21 AM
  #62
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Like I said, He didn't square up to Lindros. Back in the day, as long as your arms didn't separate from your body it was a clean hit. Many of Stevens hits were legal because of that, not squaring up as you put it. Many of his hits were no different than the Patch hit. Just a different era.


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11-29-2011, 10:26 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Well then every single NHL player has to go to "Scott Stevens School" on their summer vacation to learn how to hit the Stevens way. Because there's a LOT of players who are good at lining guys up for the hit. But players today are more agile and will try anything possible to escape that hit (instead of taking it).

Maybe Stevens was just a hell of a lot luckier back in his day. Maybe guys just knew how to take a hit better. Maybe this part of the game is the biggest grey area that exists nowadays.
Substitute "better" for "luckier" and your last three points are precisely the issues today.

I think of it like deking at the blue line. Malkin is allowed to do it because he's just better than 99% of the guys in the NHL. Maybe we need to just ban head checks and leave big open ice hits to the elite checkers that can change their line by 5 inches and get a guy in the shoulder.

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11-29-2011, 10:26 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
Like I said, He didn't square up to Lindros. Back in the day, as long as your arms didn't separate from your body it was a clean hit. Many of Stevens hits were legal because of that, not squaring up as you put it. Many of hits hits were no different than the Patch hit. Just a different era.
I agree with this. Wholeheartedly. Now we're nitpicking, trying to find all kinds of relevant points to try to justify the (milbury term) 'pansification' of hockey.

The way I see it, Pacioretty was 'defending' on Saturday night. There's more than one way to do that. You can go the Paul Martin route or you can make an impact defensively. But nowadays, in the YouTube era, the louder you make that impact, the worse off you'll be.

Those hits used to be badges of honor for players. We used to respect the hell out of players who could consistently make a physical impact like that. Hell, we chastise players when they play too soff. Well, now we suspend those that don't.

It totally sucks.

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11-29-2011, 10:30 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Substitute "better" for "luckier" and your last three points are precisely the issues today.

I think of it like deking at the blue line. Malkin is allowed to do it because he's just better than 99% of the guys in the NHL. Maybe we need to just ban head checks and leave big open ice hits to the elite checkers that can change their line by 5 inches and get a guy in the shoulder.
I think the main point is even the great Scott Stevens would get suspended today, because players react differently to hits nowadays. Nobody takes a hit on impact anymore. They expose themselves and the hitter by trying in every way possible to avoid it. This is NOT unlike the players who turn their backs to the play nowadays. It used to be that players skated back at an angle, absorbed the hit and made the play out of the zone. Now, the players get to the puck even more quickly, but they get there, stop and turn their back to the play. Then the forechecker hits them (you know, to get the puck) and suddenly he too has a date with Shanahan to discuss this.

Somewhere along the way, players have lost the ability to brace themselves. There's more hitting now, yet there's less tolerance for it. NOBODY wants to take a hit to make a play anymore.

Something has to give in that situation.

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11-29-2011, 10:37 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
THIS a thousand times! Come on, there's a HUGE difference between making a hockey play and giving a cheapshot. Come on, Shanny! You're all over the map now with these suspensions.

For the record, I HATE the fact that the Pacioretty hit on Letang is now a suspendable offense. A player in the slot area with his head somewhat down and completely unaware of his surroundings HAS to be hit in that situation. Especially since it's a scoring chance! So now, the defenseman has to basically thread the needle when he goes to hit him. There are like 75 things that can go wrong when the player lines him up there, and suddenly you're facing the music.

That all said, it WAS part of Rule 48 so I guess it's a fair suspension. The rule still sucks, though.
Jags, I agree with you to the extent that the onus should be on the puck carrier to protect himself. The whole "blindside hit" rule is very subjective imo. If a player puts his head down there's a high likelihood that he won't see the hit coming and the opposing player won't be able to avoid hitting him in the head. The rule just leaves too much room for puck carriers to put theirselves in vulnerable positions.

I think this situation is a little different, though. Pacioretty had Letang lined up to hit him cleanly, but shifted his weight toward his right leg to meet Letang's head rather than his shoulder first. That's where Shanahan has a problem with the play, and I'm ok with that.

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11-29-2011, 10:41 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by TakeYOrpik View Post
I think this situation is a little different, though. Pacioretty had Letang lined up to hit him cleanly, but shifted his weight toward his right leg to meet Letang's head rather than his shoulder first. That's where Shanahan has a problem with the play, and I'm ok with that.
But the problem I have is Shanahan is trying to get inside the head of the hitter, the hittee, et al. We don't know why the shift of the leg happened. There was also the tug on Letang's stick which altered things. Again, there's just way too much grey area as to what happened and how and why.

When you lead with the shoulder, aka as a shoulder check (body check), you should never get suspended ever. Period. Eliminate the grey area.

THEN, when somebody throws a flying elbow like Andre Deveaux, you suspend that person for 25 games. THAT is how things should be handled in this league. When you don't play by the rules, you get suspended and it hurts. But when you do?

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11-29-2011, 12:31 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
A player in the slot area with his head somewhat down and completely unaware of his surroundings HAS to be hit in that situation. Especially since it's a scoring chance! So now, the defenseman has to basically thread the needle when he goes to hit him. There are like 75 things that can go wrong when the player lines him up there, and suddenly you're facing the music.

That all said, it WAS part of Rule 48 so I guess it's a fair suspension. The rule still sucks, though.
I don't think Letang was unaware of his surroundings, he looked up and saw him coming. He was willing to take a hit to put the puck on the net.

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