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Old
11-29-2011, 02:44 AM
  #51
Finnpin
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If you trade somebody from RPG and the return is very very good/excellent and we walk away like bandits --> then it's ok. Some ok trades are not enough.

Bob only gets booted if he makes some stupid move(s)...and he actually might even do that.

RC ain't going nowhere when Bob is in charge.

RC is old school with dump & chase where you need more grittier players and Bob doesn't seem to find the correct players for RC's system. We used to be "hooligans" and now we are "nerds".

Season is over. I don't see them climb from that big hole anymore. Make some trades at the deadline when the return is best. And at the moment I would just focus to add some size/grit/toughness. If we lose let's lose in style.

WE NEED DUCKS HOCKEY BACK! Enough with this MICKEY MOUSE ****!.

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Old
11-29-2011, 02:48 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Two. Measured against a much larger number of more level-headed proposals from the fanbase.

But hey, it's just easier to blab stereotypes and then claim you don't care enough to bother to check.
Sorry that I hurt your feelings so much and didn't feverishly look at the thread for these more levelheaded posters.

Welcome to ignore, btw. Hopefully you put me on ignore as well.


Last edited by Jesus Teemu: 11-29-2011 at 02:57 AM.
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11-29-2011, 02:49 AM
  #53
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Old
11-29-2011, 03:12 AM
  #54
JawandaPuck
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Ryan will not be dealt. Makes no sense. The NHL source is pulling a fast one on the media I would wager.

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Old
11-29-2011, 03:20 AM
  #55
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If Murass trades Bobby I'm jumping this ship.

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Old
11-29-2011, 03:20 AM
  #56
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Please be staal or Krejci...... Or weber......Or Duchene....... I dont even care, just please dont **** us even worse then we are Bob

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11-29-2011, 05:58 AM
  #57
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Scapegoat Bobby. Taking the brunt of the hit for the rest of the team's faults.

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11-29-2011, 07:40 AM
  #58
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I'm fine with it if Murray can get Suter or Weber in return

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Old
11-29-2011, 07:47 AM
  #59
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I wish Ducks the best, maybe my favorite team in the west.

And IF you trade him (even thought I don't think it's very likely), then trade him to us. Out of the conference, and we "non-hockey markets" gotta stick together

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:07 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
Ryan will not be dealt. Makes no sense. The NHL source is pulling a fast one on the media I would wager.
Nick Kypreos is a reliable source, I don't believe what you post here for a moment.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:07 AM
  #61
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Just out of curiousity, but why would so many of you want Weber or Suter? Both are UFA after this year, so you'd be giving up a lot, to just have to sign them to huge contracts anyway. If I were you, I'd rather take my chances bringing them in via FA, and trade Ryan for something else.

If you guys were looking to add depth, the Hawks have a very deep prospect pool at the moment, and could offer a ton. I'm not exactly sure what they could offer, but something based around one of Morin or Saad along with Kruger, McNeil, Lalonda, and a pick could be something to start with. You'd get a defensive checking center in Kruger, a defensive prospect in Lalonde. First round top 10 C in McNeil, and a winger in Morin or Saad that are just about ready for the big show and should stick in the top 6.

As for me, I'm not even sure I'd want the Hawks to do the above, but it'd make sense on your side I suppose. I'd rather they go after a lockdown dman...

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11-29-2011, 08:09 AM
  #62
Kevin Forbes
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Breaking down the situation a bit:

First off, everyone should read Elliotte Friedman's column, 30 Thoughts this week (link here). He spends some time talking about Anaheim's internal budget. Most of you know that Anaheim operates under a pretty strict cashflow, but this really hammers home how strict it is:
  • Ducks had to wait for Hagman to go on re-entry waivers before they could pick him up, because they couldn't afford him at full price.
  • Ducks could pick Comeau off waiver wires because they couldn't afford him.
  • Ducks might not fire Carlyle simply because they can't afford to continue paying him (remember that extension he got in the summer?) and also pay a new coach.
According to Capgeek, Anaheim's floating around 60 million salary. Let's assume that 60 million is the Ducks 'Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200' line in the sand.

Anaheim is currently set up as a very top-heavy team (something else Friedman mentions). 16.68 million (almost 28% of that internal budget) is tied up in three players this year = Perry, Ryan and Getzlaf. This is actual contract payouts, not cap hits. Add in the 4.5 million that Hiller is being paid and that percentage is over one-third of the payroll. Add in the 9 million being paid to Visnovsky and Selanne this year and that's half the payroll on six players from a 23 player roster.

This is the situation that Anaheim finds themselves in. This is why they've had to do ticky-tack little moves with guys like Ben Maxwell and Matt Beleskey. Because quite frankly, they can't afford to take on a lot of salary without sending some away and most of the salary on the team is tied up in very few players.

So the only chance of being able to make a move of any significant degree, considering the present restraints on the team financially, is to move one of those big money players.
  • With Hiller and Visnovsky, you're making a larger hole. You'd need to replace Hilller if you moved him and the same could be said for Visnovsky.
  • Selanne isn't going anywhere.
  • Perry won the Hart Trophy last season.
  • Getzlaf is team captain and the face of the franchise.
That leaves Ryan.

Is it a comfortable situation to be in? Probably not, but neither is losing all but 2 of the past 18. Anaheim has to play the cards that their dealt and unfortunately this is what is in their hand.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:18 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayP View Post
Just out of curiousity, but why would so many of you want Weber or Suter? Both are UFA after this year, so you'd be giving up a lot, to just have to sign them to huge contracts anyway. If I were you, I'd rather take my chances bringing them in via FA, and trade Ryan for something else.

If you guys were looking to add depth, the Hawks have a very deep prospect pool at the moment, and could offer a ton. I'm not exactly sure what they could offer, but something based around one of Morin or Saad along with Kruger, McNeil, Lalonda, and a pick could be something to start with. You'd get a defensive checking center in Kruger, a defensive prospect in Lalonde. First round top 10 C in McNeil, and a winger in Morin or Saad that are just about ready for the big show and should stick in the top 6.

As for me, I'm not even sure I'd want the Hawks to do the above, but it'd make sense on your side I suppose. I'd rather they go after a lockdown dman...
Weber is an RFA.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:29 AM
  #64
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Kevin,

I understand the reasons being mentioned on how that could be a justified reason to move him, but I definitely think the bigger picture isnt being thought of. Next season we lose Selanne, Koivu, blake, and now apparently Ryan. Do you really think we are going to be able to sign someone for our 2nd line for around Ryans salary that can produce like him? IMO Ryan is needed next year, and trading him to help this year is a giant mistake. Once again I dont feel that Murray is thinking this one through.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:35 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
Weber is an RFA.
You're right, my mistake.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:39 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
Breaking down the situation a bit:

First off, everyone should read Elliotte Friedman's column, 30 Thoughts this week (link here). He spends some time talking about Anaheim's internal budget. Most of you know that Anaheim operates under a pretty strict cashflow, but this really hammers home how strict it is:
  • Ducks had to wait for Hagman to go on re-entry waivers before they could pick him up, because they couldn't afford him at full price.
  • Ducks could pick Comeau off waiver wires because they couldn't afford him.
  • Ducks might not fire Carlyle simply because they can't afford to continue paying him (remember that extension he got in the summer?) and also pay a new coach.
According to Capgeek, Anaheim's floating around 60 million salary. Let's assume that 60 million is the Ducks 'Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200' line in the sand.

Anaheim is currently set up as a very top-heavy team (something else Friedman mentions). 16.68 million (almost 28% of that internal budget) is tied up in three players this year = Perry, Ryan and Getzlaf. This is actual contract payouts, not cap hits. Add in the 4.5 million that Hiller is being paid and that percentage is over one-third of the payroll. Add in the 9 million being paid to Visnovsky and Selanne this year and that's half the payroll on six players from a 23 player roster.

This is the situation that Anaheim finds themselves in. This is why they've had to do ticky-tack little moves with guys like Ben Maxwell and Matt Beleskey. Because quite frankly, they can't afford to take on a lot of salary without sending some away and most of the salary on the team is tied up in very few players.

So the only chance of being able to make a move of any significant degree, considering the present restraints on the team financially, is to move one of those big money players.
  • With Hiller and Visnovsky, you're making a larger hole. You'd need to replace Hilller if you moved him and the same could be said for Visnovsky.
  • Selanne isn't going anywhere.
  • Perry won the Hart Trophy last season.
  • Getzlaf is team captain and the face of the franchise.
That leaves Ryan.

Is it a comfortable situation to be in? Probably not, but neither is losing all but 2 of the past 18. Anaheim has to play the cards that their dealt and unfortunately this is what is in their hand.
That's kind of a one sided view as Hagman isn't worth the full price of his contract and Comeau isn't exactly an all-star. Bob Murray isn't inheriting a team, he's been manning the ship for several years now and with any size budget I can't believe an NHL GM would have no foresight as to their budget or its constraints where they would be as handcuffed as that points out. Carlyle isn't fired because Murray believes he is the man for the job and said so last year under heat before the extension. Even if all that were true, then you don't trade consistent 30+ goal scorers on a great deal for parts.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:47 AM
  #67
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Being Murray he will get robbed big time. I agree with Dirk, if a trade happens, it will hunt the Ducks for years and our situation won't improve one bit now.

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Old
11-29-2011, 08:57 AM
  #68
Kevin Forbes
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To play Devil's Advocate:

What would you have him do?
I've been reading these boards for the past month and the overwhelming voice has been clamouring for something to be done, while scoffing moves like bringing in Hagman and Maxwell.

I've presented the limitations that Murray has.

David, you've already retorted that Murray put himself in this situation and needs to take it on the chin.

But frankly, I can't blame him for expecting that the top line would be producing better than just 0.65 point per game (especially with a healthy Getzlaf). This is the same trio that was scoring at a 1.06 point per game rate last season.

The same goes for between the pipes. Hiller is supposedly healthy, but has gone from a .924 save percentage last season to a .897 with his GAA jumping up by almost a goal-per-game.

You can't reasonably look at the lineup, consider what they produced over the past few seasons and believe that such a deflation in production was somehow expected. Hell, the oldest guy on the team is the one playing the best. What does that say for diminishing returns?

This team's financials have been set up in a similar fashion for a number of years now. Murray is only handcuffed now because his top players suddenly aren't playing like top players.


Last edited by Kevin Forbes: 11-29-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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Old
11-29-2011, 09:39 AM
  #69
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Luke Schenn, Mikhail Grabovski, 2012 first round pick for Bob Ryan and Andrew Cogliano?

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11-29-2011, 09:41 AM
  #70
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I'm not saying Murray is handcuffed by the quality of play on the ice, I'm saying I cannot imagine him not having the foresight towards future budget constraints, be it with players or coaches, so that he would be handcuffed where the team is in such bad shape they can't even afford to fire a coach. You just don't manage a professional sports team and not have wiggle room up or down, that just doesn't happen. Carlyle is "his guy" as seen last year when he backed him over and over (before the extension).

Regardless, if things are some how that bad and we are the laughing stock of all professional sports, you cannot afford to move a player like Bobby Ryan whom we can already afford to pay that will only bring back parts that do not add up to his sum. It's awful asset management. Then again so is letting players walk and then trading top six players and top prospects for their return...

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Old
11-29-2011, 09:55 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Two. Measured against a much larger number of more level-headed proposals from the fanbase.

But hey, it's just easier to blab stereotypes and then claim you don't care enough to bother to check.
Hurt message board feelings.

Anyway, I'll reiterate that this could be a good or even great thing. Trading one of these guys was an almost-certainty even before this season turned into turd soup. The real question is whether Murray can do something with it. I haven't been really impressed with his major trades thus far, except acquiring Visnovsky. The return for Pronger was nice, but has soured considerably.

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11-29-2011, 09:56 AM
  #72
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Please be staal or Krejci...... Or weber......Or Duchene....... I dont even care, just please dont **** us even worse then we are Bob
Forgive me for interloping, but having watched Bobby Ryan considerably during his AHL time here in Portland, I'd drive David Krejci (who is having a funky year so far and is a RFA at season's end) to the airport myself for Ryan.

P.S. Portland Maine is stuck with Phoenix as their AHL franchise now. Trust me, the Ducks are missed.

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11-29-2011, 09:57 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
To play Devil's Advocate:

What would you have him do?
I've been reading these boards for the past month and the overwhelming voice has been clamouring for something to be done, while scoffing moves like bringing in Hagman and Maxwell.

I've presented the limitations that Murray has.

David, you've already retorted that Murray put himself in this situation and needs to take it on the chin.

But frankly, I can't blame him for expecting that the top line would be producing better than just 0.65 point per game (especially with a healthy Getzlaf). This is the same trio that was scoring at a 1.06 point per game rate last season.

The same goes for between the pipes. Hiller is supposedly healthy, but has gone from a .924 save percentage last season to a .897 with his GAA jumping up by almost a goal-per-game.

You can't reasonably look at the lineup, consider what they produced over the past few seasons and believe that such a deflation in production was somehow expected. Hell, the oldest guy on the team is the one playing the best. What does that say for diminishing returns?

This team's financials have been set up in a similar fashion for a number of years now. Murray is only handcuffed now because his top players suddenly aren't playing like top players.
This is well said.

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Old
11-29-2011, 10:06 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by leafsfan1995 View Post
Luke Schenn, Mikhail Grabovski, 2012 first round pick for Bob Ryan and Andrew Cogliano?
God Leaf's fans are awful.

Out of curiosity from a Chicago perspective, what would the Ducks want from Chicago for Bobby? I know you have ownership looking for scoring depth in as cheap a way as possible so i'm guessing if Ryan were to be moved it wouldn't be a Blockbuster return for him, it would be Ryan for picks and prospects with an NHL ready winger/center.

Who in Chicago would be good enough for Ducks fans?

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Old
11-29-2011, 10:13 AM
  #75
Kevin Forbes
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
God Leaf's fans are awful.

Out of curiosity from a Chicago perspective, what would the Ducks want from Chicago for Bobby? I know you have ownership looking for scoring depth in as cheap a way as possible so i'm guessing if Ryan were to be moved it wouldn't be a Blockbuster return for him, it would be Ryan for picks and prospects with an NHL ready winger/center.

Who in Chicago would be good enough for Ducks fans?
Bolland would be the only guy that would fit Anaheim's needs for pricetag vs. talent in terms of NHL ready player as a centrepiece of the deal.

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