From the Flyers' end, it's a pretty clear yes IMO. Although Bryz's current state gives me pause about trading Bob, if Bryz continues to stink, it's not like we could trade him and it's not like we'd pay Bob the money necessary to keep him (like $9M on 2 goalies?!?), so it's pretty clear Bob has to go @ some point. Might as well be now if we get value like this.
I'm a little bit confused from the Ducks' end though. Hiller is signed for the next 3 years and is an above-average starting goalie.. @ this point probably better than Bob (the Ducks' D has been abysmal in front of Hiller this year... worse than the Flyers' D). Bob is no guarantee to be better than Hiller and would reach RFA status before Hiller's deal is up. Are the Ducks going to pay Bob enough to keep him happy? Or would they trade Hiller?
Either way, Bob probably doesn't help them recover this year (they're 11 points out of the playoffs w/ a game up on the 8th place team). It's tough enough to come back from that deficit even if every piece in a trade helps you win now... let alone if a good chunk of the deal is almost exclusively help for the future. Along those same lines, the 2nd doesn't help them win now. Meszaros for Sbisa is an upgrade for them, but given how inconsistent Mesz has been, don't think it's a "put us over the top" kind of move. And in terms of trade value, due to Sbisa's potential and his low cap hit moving forward (fair value if Sbisa doesn't improve a lick, massively good deal for Ducks if he reaches potential), I think Sbisa's value > Meszaros's value. And then obviously Voracek would help them win now, but would be a downgrade from Ryan.
In terms of "win now" value (which is what the Ducks allegedly want:
Ryan >>> Voracek
Sbisa < Meszaros
Anaheim Backup < Bob (but it's not a big upgrade @ all considering he doesn't replace Hiller)
2nd round pick worthless
No way they make this trade if they're trying to win now.
In terms of future value:
Ryan >> Voracek
Sbisa > Meszaros
Nothing << Bob + 2nd
No way they make this trade for future value either.
How much better is Ryan than Richards? How much worse is Schenn+Carle than Schenn+Simmonds?
Some assumptions you need to understand before interpreting my response:
1. We didn't get excellent value for Richie. We got a prospect that in all likelihood will turn out to be less than Richie, a 3rd line energy guy w/ 2nd line upside (but much more likely to be a 3rd liner for his career), and a 2nd.
2. You forgot about the 2nd we received in the Richie deal.
3. Anaheim's beat writers have clearly stated this trade isn't about getting futures, it's about winning right now. Schenn is a rookie. I don't think he makes a gigantic contribution to a cup contending team. Rarely do rookies make a significant impact.
4. Matt Carle is a UFA in the offseason and Anaheim has zero money to re-sign him @ the price he will command. His value is pretty low for only 1 playoff run.
So what are we left with?
In terms of "future" value (ie. value in 2012-2013 and beyond):
Carle is worth nothing to Ducks (leaves as UFA, no compensation to Ducks)
Ryan >> Schenn. I love Schenn, think he's gonna be great for us... but to say any prospect (other than a Crosby, an Ovie, etc.) will be better than an established 24 y/o 30-30 player is ridiculous.
In terms of "current" value (value for 2011-2012 only):
Ryan >>> Schenn. Ryan is an established 30-30 guy, Schenn is a rookie. Let's be real here. It's a pretty significant downgrade @ the forward spot.
Carle > whoever he replaces. But Carle does not put a team over the top... especially when you're taking a massive hit in forward depth to get him. He isn't a #1D or a #2D or even a #3D. He's not the difference for Anaheim between a cup or no cup.
Last three people who share the same name and birth date as me have said the Flyers probably aren't going to get Bobby Ryan unless they give up someone real good that I don't want them to give up (i.e. Matt Read, Sean Couterier, Brayden Schenn, Zac Rinaldo, Harry Zolnierczyk, Claude Giroux, Danny Briere, JVR, Hartnell).
Last three people who share the same name and birth date as me have said the Flyers probably aren't going to get Bobby Ryan unless they give up someone real good that I don't want them to give up (i.e. Matt Read, Sean Couterier, Brayden Schenn, Zac Rinaldo, Harry Zolnierczyk, Claude Giroux, Danny Briere, JVR, Hartnell).
Ahh i like the jokes! Seriously though.. this trade rumor has legs and the Flyers have coveted Bobby Ryan in the past, no reason they wouldnt try to get him. Again anything to make your team better you try to get it done
Well, if the Flyers are in the running, you know Holmgren is only going to bid against himself and give up something ridiculous so that Ryan doesn't end up in some place like Pittsburgh or with the Rangers. I'll call it right now:
To Anaheim:
JVR
Schenn
2012 First round pick
2012 Second round pick
To Philadelphia:
Ryan
Sbisa
Bank on it that he'll do something stupid like that.
Well, if the Flyers are in the running, you know Holmgren is only going to bid against himself and give up something ridiculous so that Ryan doesn't end up in some place like Pittsburgh or with the Rangers. I'll call it right now:
To Anaheim:
JVR
Schenn
2012 First round pick
2012 Second round pick
To Philadelphia:
Ryan
Sbisa
Bank on it that he'll do something stupid like that.
Switch JVR with Voracek and I'd do it. We all know that 2012 2nd is going somewhere by the deadline anyway--
Well, if the Flyers are in the running, you know Holmgren is only going to bid against himself and give up something ridiculous so that Ryan doesn't end up in some place like Pittsburgh or with the Rangers. I'll call it right now:
To Anaheim:
JVR
Schenn
2012 First round pick
2012 Second round pick
To Philadelphia:
Ryan
Sbisa
Bank on it that he'll do something stupid like that.
Honestly, if he does make the deal. I can easily see something close to this.
^^ ha that made me laugh above (immature). Who was that person that the board ridiculed for saying the flyers were trading richards over the summer? I know he isnt here anymore but what was his name? Can anyone provide that?
^^ ha that made me laugh above (immature). Who was that person that the board ridiculed for saying the flyers were trading richards over the summer? I know he isnt here anymore but what was his name? Can anyone provide that?
I dont think hes here anymore. It was either he had a source though, or he was taking another guys source from another website (that guy is no longer saying anything). Im pretty sure the second guy called the Carter trade pretty much exactly a few weeks before it happened.
I dont think hes here anymore. It was either he had a source though, or he was taking another guys source from another website (that guy is no longer saying anything). Im pretty sure the second guy called the Carter trade pretty much exactly a few weeks before it happened.
Yea I know he actually posts on Dobberhockey forums sometimes.. just can't remember his name
Well, if the Flyers are in the running, you know Holmgren is only going to bid against himself and give up something ridiculous so that Ryan doesn't end up in some place like Pittsburgh or with the Rangers. I'll call it right now:
To Anaheim:
JVR
Schenn
2012 First round pick
2012 Second round pick
To Philadelphia:
Ryan
Sbisa
Bank on it that he'll do something stupid like that.
Hartnell/Simmonds instead of JVR.
Fowler instead of Sbisa.
Then the Flyers do the deal. Unfortunately I don't think Anaheim does.
), but I doubt it happens.
