HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Official Trade Proposal Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-19-2011, 02:57 PM
  #376
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 35,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Why ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer?

He has been rumored out of Colorado for 2 years now. In theory your statement is sound but three problems, Colorado doesn't spend because they can't afford to spend, They are not a playoff team and free agents aren't going their.

This deal improves both teams and is a win win. Colorado gets 2 skilled bodies and we get a center also lowering the sabres cap hit.
You didnt give me an actual answer. You referenced rumors that are fairly worthless. They are right up there with the old 'Miller wants to go to Detroit' rumors.

There is little reason for the Avs to trade Stastny.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-19-2011 at 06:27 PM.
joshjull is online now  
Old
12-19-2011, 03:01 PM
  #377
BuzzKillington90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albion, Ny
Country: United States
Posts: 557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You didnt give me an actual answer. You referenced rumors that are fairly worthless. They are right up there with he old Miller wants to go to Detroit.

There is little reason for the Avs to trade Stastny.
Oh I dunno, a woefully underperforming and unhappy center making 6.6mil a year.....I might be able to find a reason in there someplace.
Tho your right, based on that reasoning we shouldn't trade Stafford!!

BuzzKillington90 is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 03:02 PM
  #378
Avs44
Lets go Blues!
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,822
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Why ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer?

He has been rumored out of Colorado for 2 years now. In theory your statement is sound but three problems, Colorado doesn't spend because they can't afford to spend, They are not a playoff team and free agents aren't going their.

This deal improves both teams and is a win win. Colorado gets 2
skilled bodies and we get a center
also lowering the sabres cap hit.
He's been rumoured out of
Colorado by hopefull Leaf fans and people like you. No legit source has said he is on the block.


I'm not opposed to moving Stastny for the right package, but your post shows you know nothing about the Avs. We are having money problems?? Well, thanks for telling me, I didn't know. FA don't want to come here? Were rebuilding, no
FA wants to go to a rebuilding team, your completely forgetting how good the Avs were. Guys like
Joe Sakic, Forsberg, Blake, yup, who'd ever want to come to Colorado. I'd probably move Stastny for a package based around Stafford+Sekera, but anything less and we say no. In future, please don't comment on our team when you know nothing about them.

Avs44 is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 03:42 PM
  #379
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 35,920
vCash: 500
How long until the Isles would be willing to part with Nielsen? We could use him now but I doubt they are throwing in the towel just yet.

joshjull is online now  
Old
12-19-2011, 05:47 PM
  #380
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Id say it depends on what we are offering for him...

HiddenInLight is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 06:05 PM
  #381
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 35,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Do you think of LA is a physical juggernaut? I don't. I think they're unafraid of taking the body, but they're far from what I would consider a physically imposing team. Then look at their hit totals compared to a team like Boston, who seems to hit everything that moves.

One of the reasons hits is the most irrelevant skater stat in hockey today is because of the subjective differences in the way they're credited from arena to arena. Look at the way the Leafs players' hits went through the roof last season (especially Kaberle's) compared to previous seasons--they likely got a new person to track them. LA's hits stats are notoriously inflated. I keep waiting for them to sign Robert Svehla so he can lead the league in hits like he did in Florida.

The day someone can show me a stat or study that definitively correlates hitting with winning is the day I start concerning myself with hit stats. Other than indicating who's hitting on a given team vis-a-vis his teammates, they're practically useless.
Brown is far more physical than Stafford. You can try and discredit hitting stats and make arguements discreditting the value of hitting all you want. But the fact remains Brown is much more physical than Stafford. It should be obvious from watching the two play.


Quote:
So, at best, they're equivalent offensive players, rather than Stafford being slightly more productive? And that ignores the fact that Stafford is a year younger and has almost 200 fewer games of NHL experience. I'm still not seeing how the difference between Brown and Stafford is anything approaching Tyler Ennis.

Let's remove the TOI disparity and do ES points/60 minutes:

Brown
11-12: 1.24
10-11: 1.91
09-10: 1.88
08-09: 1.73

Stafford

11-12: 1.86
10-11: 2.20
09-10: 1.53
08-09: 1.57

These numbers tell us Brown was slightly better at ES scoring in 08-09, and significantly better in 09-10. Stafford was significantly better than Brown in 10-11. And despite how supposedly awful Stafford has been this season, he's been far better at ES than Brown this year. So, over the last 1 1/2 seasons, Stafford has been the decidedly better ES producer. Personally, I think recent history is more relevant than what happened in 2007-08 or 2008-09.
At their best offensively Stafford is the better offensive player. But is what he did last year (a 41g 69pt pace) something to realistically expect from him every year? Or is it the level of production from the previous 3 seasons (roughly 20g 44pts) before last year? I would imagine the truth lies somewhere in between.

Brown has been fairly consistant the previous 4 seasons so you pretty much know what you would be getting offensively.

Quote:
(And I refuse to be like other Sabres fans and pretend that a player's best season didn't happen simply because it makes my argument easier--i.e., Stafford or Miller.)
How am I pretending his best season didn't happen?

Quote:
I wasn't offering filler in addition to Stafford. You don't think a guy like Foligno has value? A young, character winger with letter-wearing intangibles and on pace for 25+ goals in his first season as an AHL'er. I think that's a pretty nice secondary piece, especially for a team with a bunch of stopgaps for wingers, in addition to Stafford.


Then I don't make that deal. Ennis + Stafford for Brown is a non-starter in my book. And a rental like Stoll isn't close to evening out the deal, especially when we can get him for just money this offseason when he's UFA.

I'm not messing with the under-22 core for anything outside a huge upgrade, preferably at center.
I don't know if I make the deal either and that wasn't what I was arguing. I'm saying due to Brown being the captain and having such a great contract along with his two way game and physicality. It may take more than you are willing to offer to acquire him.

I'm not arguing that Ennis + Stafford = Brown. I think Ennis + Stafford > Brown. I've acknowledged from the start the trade would be an overpayment. My question then was would it be worth the overpayment? Your answer is no.
Quote:
And going from Drew Stafford to Dustin Brown does not represent a huge upgrade
Adding a guy who can consistantly pot 24+ goals 53+ pts, plays a responsible two way game and hits in high volume + impact would be a big upgrade to our top 6.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-19-2011 at 09:51 PM.
joshjull is online now  
Old
12-19-2011, 09:04 PM
  #382
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 2,139
vCash: 500
Im tired of all this Statsny talk I wanna know what it'd take to get Pavelski...we dont match up well with San Jose at all since we both have defensive depth as strengths.

Pavelski
for
Stafford,Ennis,2nd,Biega??

Money is a wash and san jose suddenly has the deepest top6-9 in the west

Patty Mar-Thornton-Stafford
Havlat-Couture-Clowe
Ennis-Handzus-??

ennis adds that third line scoring pop they lack

DJN21 is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 09:33 PM
  #383
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 19,090
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Im tired of all this Statsny talk I wanna know what it'd take to get Pavelski...we dont match up well with San Jose at all since we both have defensive depth as strengths.

Pavelski
for
Stafford,Ennis,2nd,Biega??

Money is a wash and san jose suddenly has the deepest top6-9 in the west

Patty Mar-Thornton-Stafford
Havlat-Couture-Clowe
Ennis-Handzus-??

ennis adds that third line scoring pop they lack
SJ isn't trading Pavelski. He's so important to everything they do.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 10:18 PM
  #384
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 35,920
vCash: 500
Wonder if S. Koivu would to waive his NMC to come here. Great vet with a lot of heart and a great playoff pedigree (55pts in 60gms)

joshjull is online now  
Old
12-19-2011, 11:18 PM
  #385
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 2,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
SJ isn't trading Pavelski. He's so important to everything they do.
Ik man but theres so few centers i wanna trade for or can feasibly be had in this league right now. Im not all on the statsny train like others as i dont see him as an upgrade over roy points or salary wise and theres no other centers attainable that upgrade roy really...

ehhh a man can dream right? The idea of roy-pavelski-adam down the middle for less than 10 mill combine over the next few years makes me salivate.

DJN21 is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 11:23 PM
  #386
thefifagod
I'm The Survivor
 
thefifagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
Ik man but theres so few centers i wanna trade for or can feasibly be had in this league right now. Im not all on the statsny train like others as i dont see him as an upgrade over roy points or salary wise and theres no other centers attainable that upgrade roy really...

ehhh a man can dream right? The idea of roy-pavelski-adam down the middle for less than 10 mill combine over the next few years makes me salivate.
Would definitely be awesome but as Zip said there's no chance he's getting moved. He's playing RW on the first line right now and producing big time.

thefifagod is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 11:25 PM
  #387
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 2,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
Would definitely be awesome but as Zip said there's no chance he's getting moved. He's playing RW on the first line right now and producing big time.
maybe if san jose does their usual and flounders in the playoffs...again they wills start thinking about a bigger core teardown than they did last season with setoguchi n heatley....marleau and thornton arent getting any younger..

DJN21 is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 11:28 PM
  #388
thefifagod
I'm The Survivor
 
thefifagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
maybe if san jose does their usual and flounders in the playoffs...again they wills start thinking about a bigger core teardown than they did last season with setoguchi n heatley....marleau and thornton arent getting any younger..
They've been in the conference playoffs two years in a row, wouldn't exactly call that floundering. And that would be more reason for them to keep guys like Pavelski and Couture to build around them, not to trade them.

thefifagod is offline  
Old
12-19-2011, 11:33 PM
  #389
DJN21
Registered User
 
DJN21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Rochester
Posts: 2,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
They've been in the conference playoffs two years in a row, wouldn't exactly call that floundering. And that would be more reason for them to keep guys like Pavelski and Couture to build around them, not to trade them.
making the playoffs and being the best team in the west over the course of the past 5 years and never doing anything other than fall short is at least semi-floundering. Honestly I see them as kinda similar to the sabres in that their "core" of players has never cut it...Nabokov/Miller, Marleau+Thornton/Roy + Poms+ Vanek

They've got an interesting team though, man Id love to get a few guys off their roster! Murray,Pavelski,Clowe please lol

DJN21 is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 12:03 AM
  #390
Joey Moss
Registered User
 
Joey Moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 23,886
vCash: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
That would work. Not sure how the Oil feel about it with Eberle and Hemsky and Jones on RW already.
As an Oilers fan I would be all over this.

Jones can play either wing and Hemsky is likely to be moved by the draft anyways. We need to add size on the wings as well. I remember reading somewhere that the Oilers were going to take Stafford in the '04 draft if Buffalo didn't snag him so I'm sure interest is already there. Plus Stafford's uncle is in the Oilers organization, Gagner's favorite team growing up was Buffalo. It just seems like a perfect kind of swap for both team.

Joey Moss is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 05:49 AM
  #391
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
I only have one problem with trading stafford and that has nothing to do with him on ice. If stafford is in Buffalo, and parise hits free agency he may help to convince him to come to buffalo...sort of like hecht and ehrhoff, except parise and stafford are closer. Other then that Id say hit that trade.

HiddenInLight is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 07:14 AM
  #392
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
I only have one problem with trading stafford and that has nothing to do with him on ice. If stafford is in Buffalo, and parise hits free agency he may help to convince him to come to buffalo...sort of like hecht and ehrhoff, except parise and stafford are closer. Other then that Id say hit that trade.
Because signing another winger is exactly what we should do in the offseason.

Jame is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 07:17 AM
  #393
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Because signing another winger is exactly what we should do in the offseason.
Because none of our wingers have expiring contracts and Parise isn't one of the best wingers in the league. I know Id rather have Kaleta over Parise.

HiddenInLight is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 07:25 AM
  #394
BuzzKillington90
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albion, Ny
Country: United States
Posts: 557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Because signing another winger is exactly what we should do in the offseason.
Unlike most of Ruff's "Project" wingers, Parise could make the change to Center.

That said, I doubt he gets to FA

BuzzKillington90 is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 08:25 AM
  #395
WhoIsJimBob
#TankEnvy
 
WhoIsJimBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 17,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
Because none of our wingers have expiring contracts and Parise isn't one of the best wingers in the league. I know Id rather have Kaleta over Parise.
Somehow I doubt they get Parise for what their paying Kaleta.....

Now if they could move Leino to free up cap space over the summer....

WhoIsJimBob is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 08:29 AM
  #396
Buffalo87
thehosers dot com
 
Buffalo87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Rochester
Posts: 7,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKillington90 View Post
Unlike most of Ruff's "Project" wingers, Parise could make the change to Center.

That said, I doubt he gets to FA
Yep, Parise came into the league as a center and I don't believe he made the switch to wing full-time until last season.

But beyond that, Parise isn't the type of player you stay away from just because you have enough wings. If you have a chance to sign a guy like Parise, you sign him and then make necessary adjustments via trade after.

With that said, no way does that actually happen.

Buffalo87 is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 08:37 AM
  #397
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Somehow I doubt they get Parise for what their paying Kaleta.....

Now if they could move Leino to free up cap space over the summer....
The Kaleta point was meant to mean, Id rather have Parise taking up a roster spot then Kaleta. If (this is and has from the first mention of his name, a HUGE if) he does make it to FA and Stafford is still a sabre, that would be a huge bonus for us trying to sign him, as they are very close friends. Also, you gotta consider the line you could get from that:

Vanek - Parise - Pomminville

Or Ennis - Parise - Stafford

Parise - Roy - Stafford


Parise and Stafford have instant chemistry. Maybe playing with his best friend squeezes more effort out each game. More effort means more confidence, which leads to better play.


But again Parise hitting FA is a huge IF.

HiddenInLight is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 08:51 AM
  #398
Jame
Dream '16
 
Jame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Florida
Country: Pitcairn Islands
Posts: 36,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKillington90 View Post
Unlike most of Ruff's "Project" wingers, Parise could make the change to Center.

That said, I doubt he gets to FA
So we should NOT trade Stafford, in the hopes of something that you DOUBT will happen.

makes sense

Jame is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 08:55 AM
  #399
Zip15
Registered User
 
Zip15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 19,090
vCash: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJN21 View Post
maybe if san jose does their usual and flounders in the playoffs...again they wills start thinking about a bigger core teardown than they did last season with setoguchi n heatley....marleau and thornton arent getting any younger..
I think if San Jose tears down their core, Marleau and/or Thornton will be gone long before Pavelski.

Zip15 is offline  
Old
12-20-2011, 09:01 AM
  #400
HiddenInLight
Registered User
 
HiddenInLight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
So we should NOT trade Stafford, in the hopes of something that you DOUBT will happen.

makes sense
OR it could just be somthing positive that might come out of keeping him, considering the fact that if record holds true, Stafford probably won't be traded. The whole point is that SOME good could come from keeping Stafford on the team.

HiddenInLight is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.