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Old
12-14-2011, 11:17 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
They already have Kopitar-Richards as 1/2. Stoll is a pending UFA now on their third line who is sort of Barnes-esque as a mid-40's point producer. It's mostly a shift in production (including SO skills) for Stoll and Boyes, as both are pending UFA and all that. Brown-Stafford would likely require the Sabres to kick something else into the mix and the Kings are already swimming in defensemen. I can't imagine Regier making the call, let alone being willing to kick in more, but it's a nice lunchtime diversion.
I'd imagine that something extra to be Tropp or Foligno. I'd do it. I'd even offer Kaleta if they didn't want Foligno or Tropp. It'd be nice to have another center who can score more than 40 pts AND win a faceoff with some regularity.

Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-Kassian
Leino-Stoll-Brown
Hecht-Gaustad-Gerbe

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12-14-2011, 11:19 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Regier should be calling up his buddy Lombardi in LA to see who might be available from the Kings. Something around Stafford and Boyes and a pick for Brown and Stoll? Brown's seemingly in much of the Kings' fanbase's doghouse right now. He may need a shakeup. Stafford we know needs a shakeup.
I'd honestly throw Ennis in to make that deal happen...

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:20 AM
  #178
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Stoll is more of a 3rd line 2-way center isn't he?

Vanek-Adam-Pommers
Ennis-Roy-Brown
Leino-Stoll-Kassian
dice roll of the rest of the forwards.

I would love to keep Kassian up, but the way Leino/Kassian/Adams have been working I'd prefer a better center then Stoll....not to mention that Mike Richards is injured I believe....so they probably wouldn't trade a center at the moment.
Leino's handling the center duties on that line, not Adam. At this point, there isn't a need to break them up either. Stoll plays a fairly straight-ahead game and can both PK and play as a shooter on the PP point. That said, he's still only a 40-45 point scorer even getting quality minutes, so he's mid-line at best. But it would move someone in who's good on draws and plays a more physical game at center than Boyes does on the wing while keeping the SO stuff similar (Stoll's got basically one move that works time after time).

Brown doesn't have Stafford's offensive abilities, but the guy finishes his checks and used to be known for his work as a 2-way player. Appartently, the bloom is off that rose for some in LA, but he's only 27 and would represent what we want Kassian to become: a top 6 RW who can both hit and score.

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12-14-2011, 11:22 AM
  #179
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I'd honestly throw Ennis in to make that deal happen...
Lets not go that far

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12-14-2011, 11:22 AM
  #180
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I can only imagine the dive jokes if Roy and Brown were ever on the same team. The main board would be a mess.

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12-14-2011, 11:24 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'd imagine that something extra to be Tropp or Foligno. I'd do it. I'd even offer Kaleta if they didn't want Foligno or Tropp. It'd be nice to have another center who can score more than 40 pts AND win a faceoff with some regularity.

Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-Kassian
Leino-Stoll-Brown
Hecht-Gaustad-Gerbe
I would offer Hecht or Boyes

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:32 AM
  #182
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Brown and Stoll = 6.775
for
Stafford and Ennis = 4.875
+ 1.9

Boyes
for
Nielsen
-3.45

total
-1.55 net

Before you laugh at where I put Stoll, by explaining him away as a 3rd line center... remember that Jochen Hecht, Paul Szch...., and a rookie Adam have all centered the top line this year...

Vanek-Stoll-Pominville - Van and Pommer make that line go, have a bull at center would only create more space for them.

Leino-Roy-Brown - kinda has same traits as the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line that had so much success in Philly

Adam-Nielsen-Kassian - 2 rookies who have outplayed their peers between a defensive center. love it.

Gerbe-Goose-Hecht/McCormick/Kaleta

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:32 AM
  #183
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I can only imagine the dive jokes if Roy and Brown were ever on the same team. The main board would be a mess.
To borrow from the Canucks forum... embrace the hate.

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:34 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
I would offer Hecht or Boyes
Boyes was already in the deal.

Stafford + Boyes + Tropp/Foligno/Kaleta

for

Brown + Stoll

As Chain pointed out, it's essentially two deals.

TRADE 1
Stafford + Tropp/Foligno/Kaleta

for

Brown

Drew has the higher offensive upside, but Brown is the better all-around player, even though I think he's plateaued in recent years. Brown's the type of guy you can put out there against other teams' top lines, and we need as many of those guys as possible, especially to close out games.

TRADE 2
Boyes

for

Stoll

Two impending UFAs with relatively close salaries. Boyes will be helpful to LA on the PP and shootout. Stoll gives us a hardnosed center who can win a faceoff with some regularity.

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:39 AM
  #185
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What motivation does LA have to trade Dustin Brown again? 30 goal power forward signed long term to a reasonable deal AND their captain?

Just because a team is struggling doesn't make them stupid. Maybe we can get them to toss us Matt Greene while their GM is on stupid pills.

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:40 AM
  #186
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Do you guys see Stoll moving with Richards' concussion?

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12-14-2011, 11:41 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
What motivation does LA have to trade Dustin Brown again? 30 goal power forward signed long term to a reasonable deal AND their captain?

Just because a team is struggling doesn't make them stupid. Maybe we can get them to toss us Matt Greene while their GM is on stupid pills.
Think of a reason why we would trade Stafford...

Now exchange "Stafford" with "Brown"

The stars align.

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:44 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
What motivation does LA have to trade Dustin Brown again? 30 goal power forward signed long term to a reasonable deal AND their captain?

Just because a team is struggling doesn't make them stupid. Maybe we can get them to toss us Matt Greene while their GM is on stupid pills.
Struggling player for struggling player trades do happen all the time -- granted, this is Regier-era so we don't actually ever see that happening with Sabres since he's sitting on his hands. It's a matter of making a solid offer for a good player.

(As for Brown being a "30-goal scorer"... he's a perrenial 20+ goal guy, he's had 1 30-goal season, 4 years ago).

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:47 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Boyes was already in the deal.

Stafford + Boyes + Tropp/Foligno/Kaleta

for

Brown + Stoll

As Chain pointed out, it's essentially two deals.

TRADE 1
Stafford + Tropp/Foligno/Kaleta

for

Brown

Drew has the higher offensive upside, but Brown is the better all-around player, even though I think he's plateaued in recent years. Brown's the type of guy you can put out there against other teams' top lines, and we need as many of those guys as possible, especially to close out games.

TRADE 2
Boyes

for

Stoll

Two impending UFAs with relatively close salaries. Boyes will be helpful to LA on the PP and shootout. Stoll gives us a hardnosed center who can win a faceoff with some regularity.
I saw that you had boyes but i would do hecht or boyes whoever they prefer
and Jame we can get much better value for Ennis Stafford


Last edited by JPurp26: 12-14-2011 at 11:53 AM.
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Old
12-14-2011, 11:48 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
What motivation does LA have to trade Dustin Brown again? 30 goal power forward signed long term to a reasonable deal AND their captain?

Just because a team is struggling doesn't make them stupid. Maybe we can get them to toss us Matt Greene while their GM is on stupid pills.
Ask the Kings fan who came in the other thread and said he might be moved in a shakeup.

Player A: 146 G in 543 games (.269 goals/game); 320 pts in 543 games (.589 pts/game)
Player B: 99 G in 346 games (.286 goals/game); 211 pts in 346 games (.609 pts/game)

Now guess who Player A is and guess who Player B is?

If LA did this, it'd be to shake up their club. Realistically, Kopitar should be the captain of that team. One could even make an argument for Doughty. Lombardi is clearly displeased with their players. If you don't believe me, see his comment yesterday about how he had to make the coaching change but this is on the players.

I'm not sure LA does a Stafford+ for Brown deal, either, but don't act like it's preposterous just because Stafford is a scapegoat around here.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-15-2011 at 10:39 PM. Reason: enough with the condescension
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Old
12-14-2011, 11:52 AM
  #191
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Brown's physical game is also somewhat overrated since he dropped weight to improve his offensive game. It paid off during his 30 goal season, but since then, he hasn't been able to get back to that level offensively.

Edit- not that he wouldn't immediately be our most physical top six forward, but he's not in the mold of Lucic, Morrow or Clowe.

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12-14-2011, 11:55 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Brown's physical game is also somewhat overrated since he dropped weight to improve his offensive game. It paid off during his 30 goal season, but since then, he hasn't been able to get back to that level offensively.

Edit- not that he wouldn't immediately be our most physical top six forward, but he's not in the mold of Lucic, Morrow or Clowe.
And Stafford's is somewhat underrated, IMO. At last check, he had more hits than every forward not named Gaustad or Kaleta--not that I think the hits stat means all that much, but Drew's not out there stick-checking and avoiding contact.

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12-14-2011, 12:00 PM
  #193
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I've noticed him more physically lately than earlier in the year. I think some of it is the result of Kassian pushing for Drew's spot.

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12-14-2011, 12:18 PM
  #194
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I saw that you had boyes but i would do hecht or boyes whoever they prefer
and Jame we can get much better value for Ennis Stafford
better value, as in what?

How about we stop thinking about potential AND production, and start looking at what this team actually NEEDS.

Stoll and Brown are what this team NEEDS. They are big, physical presences who know their way around all 3 zones. They can close out games, play in critical situations, and add a bunch of nasty into the top 9.

What do Stafford and Ennis provide that this team might miss by trading them?

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12-14-2011, 12:28 PM
  #195
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better value, as in what?

How about we stop thinking about potential AND production, and start looking at what this team actually NEEDS.

Stoll and Brown are what this team NEEDS. They are big, physical presences who know their way around all 3 zones. They can close out games, play in critical situations, and add a bunch of nasty into the top 9.

What do Stafford and Ennis provide that this team might miss by trading them?
Well clearly some change is needed, but not for the sake of losing value. Ennis had a 20 goal rookie season and is just coming back. If Boyes and Stafford and a minor prospect can net you Brown and Stoll then why would you include Ennis? I would trade anyone if it makes this team better but Ennis is important, he is one of the few guys with speed and scoring ability.

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12-14-2011, 12:28 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
better value, as in what?

How about we stop thinking about potential AND production, and start looking at what this team actually NEEDS.

Stoll and Brown are what this team NEEDS. They are big, physical presences who know their way around all 3 zones. They can close out games, play in critical situations, and add a bunch of nasty into the top 9.

What do Stafford and Ennis provide that this team might miss by trading them?
I think the point is that you don't really need to add Ennis to Stafford to get that deal done. No point in voluntarily losing a deal just to get it done when it can get done for less.

While I'm not averse to moving Ennis, I think he's too often getting lumped in with a lot of players. I also think he provides several things that others don't, like being able to take the zone with speed. His ceiling is higher than most of our forwards not named Vanek. I'm not ready to sell him off willy-nilly. Given age, production, and contract, he's one of our most valuable trade chips, and I think we'd be underselling him in such a deal.

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12-14-2011, 12:39 PM
  #197
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Would it be worth it for the Sabres to trade Roy for a young center with latent offensive potential who is already doing a team's heavy lifting defensively? People hated the idea of downgrading offensively to guys like Kesler, Backes, Hanzal and O'Reilly when those guys were just checkers, but as each guy has developed an offensive game, they've leaped Roy in value, while Buffalo still relies on guys who either can't stay healthy (Hecht) or aren't consistent enough (Gaustad) to handle big defensive minutes.

A stopgap or project center could also be had for non-roster assets or scraps to help offset some of the missing offensive production.

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12-14-2011, 12:40 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzzKillington90 View Post
Think of a reason why we would trade Stafford...

Now exchange "Stafford" with "Brown"

The stars align.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Struggling player for struggling player trades do happen all the time -- granted, this is Regier-era so we don't actually ever see that happening with Sabres since he's sitting on his hands. It's a matter of making a solid offer for a good player.

(As for Brown being a "30-goal scorer"... he's a perrenial 20+ goal guy, he's had 1 30-goal season, 4 years ago).
But, comparing Stafford to Brown is akin to comparing Roy to Getzlaf.

One is clearly better than the other and brings much more than goal scoring to the table.

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12-14-2011, 12:43 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
But, comparing Stafford to Brown is akin to comparing Roy to Getzlaf.

One is clearly better than the other and brings much more than goal scoring to the table.
Actually, it's not at all akin to that comparison. Brown is a good player on a good contract, but you're overrating him. LA has been my Western Conference team for 2+ years now, and the guy has plateaued and he's nowhere near as physical as he used to be.

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12-14-2011, 12:50 PM
  #200
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Well clearly some change is needed, but not for the sake of losing value. Ennis had a 20 goal rookie season and is just coming back. If Boyes and Stafford and a minor prospect can net you Brown and Stoll then why would you include Ennis? I would trade anyone if it makes this team better but Ennis is important, he is one of the few guys with speed and scoring ability.
Because Boyes + Stafford + prospect/pick can't get you Stoll and Brown...

Ennis isn't important, he's the window dressing...

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