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Pacioretty confused with suspension

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Old
11-29-2011, 03:59 PM
  #1
lopey
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Pacioretty confused with suspension

http://tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=381492

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:03 PM
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Scotto74
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think you might want to check you link

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11-29-2011, 04:06 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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think you might want to check you link
I think he's confused because he wanted to play for WJC.

Here's link the video:

http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/#clip576548


Let the montreal bashing ensue. lol

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:07 PM
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Confusion is confusing...

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:17 PM
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Neely08
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God I hate long layoffs between B's games.... it's hell.

Sounds real remorseful.

He does have a point a/b guys coming over the line and getting a free pass. But, I still don't know why when a back checker has a guy on the hook like that, he can't come in w/ his forearms from the side, and explode. More of a push but still a check, like the way Neely used to hit in open ice a lot of times. Instead of taking the risk of lining up their shoulder w/ their opponent's head, or chin, at 20 + MPH.

That would eliminate the prob right there.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:21 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
God I hate long layoffs between B's games.... it's hell.

Sounds real remorseful.

He does have a point a/b guys coming over the line and getting a free pass. But, I still don't know why when a back checker has a guy on the hook like that, he can't come in w/ his forearms from the side, and explode. More of a push but still a check, like the way Neely used to hit in open ice a lot of times. Instead of taking the risk of lining up their shoulder w/ their opponent's head, or chin, at 20 + MPH.

That would eliminate the prob right there.
You have a point. Considering the shot was already made, giving a push may be sufficient, but the whole idea is you want them to be scared to get that prime scoring chance I guess, but players will have to adapt because these hits, even unintentional can be dangerous.

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11-29-2011, 04:26 PM
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I actually agree with everything he is saying. The game is being changed. That is a green light hit if there ever was one.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:27 PM
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The Habs are right, there is a conspiracyy.

Why did Paille get four for the exact same play?

I wish someone would investigate this for eight months.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:32 PM
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I'm confused as well. Good hockey play gone wrong.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:33 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
The Habs are right, there is a conspiracyy.

Why did Paille get four for the exact same play?

I wish someone would investigate this for eight months.
I understand many posters dislike for the habs, but the guy didn't say anything of the sort. If anything, I hear a lot of non-habs fans saying the "No Hitting League". He's speaking what I heard bruins fans and others say for a while, that players are scared to hit because even if accidental hits clip the head, you're suspended, and if you don't hit, the guy gets a free pass. It's a legit discussion, although as neely08 pointed out, there's ways to remove a player from the player without the risk of a bad collision. In that sense, you can remove him from the play, but a push is pretty much still a free pass unless the guy falls straight on his ass which isn't that pleasant of a feeling.

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11-29-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You have a point. Considering the shot was already made, giving a push may be sufficient, but the whole idea is you want them to be scared to get that prime scoring chance I guess, but players will have to adapt because these hits, even unintentional can be dangerous.
Yeah, and only in the past few years. To me it is the way they're coming in w/ their shoulders. North south, head up, you see it coming. East west, or blindside, of course you're going to be rocked. How is the follow through NOT going to make contact w/ the head, even if the guy has his head up looking forward?

You're still going to obliterate the guy if you come in w/ your arms in front of you, elbows down, and explode outward. But you're doing more to ensure the point of contact is lower. It's also more dependant on upper body strength of the guy throwing the hit. A bit more risk to the guy throwing the hit. Therefore, a guy like Richards isn't going to get a big "glory" hit throwing a check like that. But, that's the way it's supposed to be anyway.

I always disagreed on equipment being the main issue, but maybe guys are hiding behind their bullet proof shoulder pads on these hits.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:38 PM
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VeddarRants
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Pacioretty - " The onus can't always be on the hitter "

I wonder if he felt the same way last year.

The league is trying to get rid of shots to the head, not open ice hits. Pacioretty is an idiot.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:40 PM
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Fire Julien
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Pacioretty is a couple of headshots short of making sense.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:41 PM
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Maybe a couple more games would give him time to clear up any confusion he has. It was a bad hit, intentional, or not.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:44 PM
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KnightofBoston
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I see where Max is coming from, also disclaimer: No one in this thread or on this site was in his skates and saw the play develop from his eyes

Max isn't a bad person, if he's confused by the rules then that needs to be addressed.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:52 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
Yeah, and only in the past few years. To me it is the way they're coming in w/ their shoulders. North south, head up, you see it coming. East west, or blindside, of course you're going to be rocked. How is the follow through NOT going to make contact w/ the head, even if the guy has his head up looking forward?

You're still going to obliterate the guy if you come in w/ your arms in front of you, elbows down, and explode outward. But you're doing more to ensure the point of contact is lower. It's also more dependant on upper body strength of the guy throwing the hit. A bit more risk to the guy throwing the hit. Therefore, a guy like Richards isn't going to get a big "glory" hit throwing a check like that. But, that's the way it's supposed to be anyway.

I always disagreed on equipment being the main issue, but maybe guys are hiding behind their bullet proof shoulder pads on these hits.
It honestly seems like the safer the equipment has become, the more liberties guys take with unprotected parts of the body.

As for the east-west, north south. There's definetely a higher chance of collison with the head going east-west, but it is not a 100% thing as you suggest. It's funny because you're told to hit the guys chest, you know, square in front of him, not from behind, but if his head is leaning forward, odds are you hit the head first. Now, if you hit from the back shoulder he either goes flying and spinning around or he falls face first, and guess what, it's a 'cheap shot hit from behind'.

The only real solutuon i can think of is the one you suggested with the elbows down and using some upper body strength to knock the guy down with an explosive push. In essence, it's not even such a foreign move because a lot of these guys practice explosive power exercises and train in that fashion. Still, not every player thinks 'push' on a more east-west hit. I assume, or hope, the league refines the rules and makes the situation clearer and finds alternatives but for now, max will remain confused because the rules say hits to the head are illegal, and don't really take into account all the variables or context. Illegal hit and it should remain that way, but there should be clear measures on alternatives. Sounds almost babyish in a way, to send a video about how to hit, but they've done it before, and if accidental contact counts, I think it's only right they clarify and show hits of the nature you alluded to or else, suspension or not, guys coming down the middle will still get hurt, or get a free pass.

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Old
11-29-2011, 04:54 PM
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GarbageGoal
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This is the new way for athletes to complain. Act confused in a passive/aggressive so you can't fine them for ripping the league. All they do is make themselves look like dolts.

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KaBoomin8 View Post
I actually agree with everything he is saying. The game is being changed. That is a green light hit if there ever was one.
I gather from this post that you did not watch the Shanahan explanation.

Shanahan explicitely states in his video that Letang expects the hit. He notes that there nothing wrong with a player getting hit in that situation, that it is actually expected. What is wrong is that THE HEAD CANNOT BE THE PRINCIPAL POINT OF CONTACT.

THAT is the difference. If anyone has trouble understanding that, I question their powers of reasoning.

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:17 PM
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VeddarRants
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Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
I see where Max is coming from, also disclaimer: No one in this thread or on this site was in his skates and saw the play develop from his eyes

Max isn't a bad person, if he's confused by the rules then that needs to be addressed.
Max shouldn't be confused because this issue has been a reoccurring topic and he's had ample enough time to see the videos that Shanahan has made available to all the clubs and public. The head cannot be targeted or the point of contact.

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GarbageGoal View Post
This is the new way for athletes to complain. Act confused in a passive/aggressive so you can't fine them for ripping the league. All they do is make themselves look like dolts.
Exactly. And he shouldn't be confused either. It's pretty clear what's allowed and what's not.

I get the fact that hockey is a fast sport and sometimes bad decisions get made in the heat of the moment without malicious intent. I don't think he intended to nail his head and knock him out, but it happened. There's nothing confusing about it, and for him to try to put some of the blame on the league is laughable and something a weak-minded person would come up with.

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaBoomin8 View Post
I actually agree with everything he is saying. The game is being changed. That is a green light hit if there ever was one.
The only problem I had with the hit is that Pacioretty shifted weight to his right foot JUST before impact and caught his head. If Pacioretty kept his weight to his left and caught the guy with a full body check it would have been a thing of beauty.

The suspension video really showed it.

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:29 PM
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From videos I've seen, it looks to me that the league's interpretation of the rule, is that the principal point of contact isn't necessarily the initial point of contact. If the hitter makes contact in such a way that his elbow or arm rides up, and makes contact with the face, it is an illegal hit. That's what makes hits like this illegal. There's nothing wrong with hitting a guy on open ice like this, as long as the hitter either keeps that arm down (not always easy, with the momentum) or just makes sure that his torso is the main point of contact rather than the arm, so that most contact is with the midsection, rather than riding up towards the head. At least, that's what it seems to me. This should not be confusing to Max. He made a last second adjustment to put that arm forward; it may have been reflex rather intentional, but nevertheless it then became an illegal hit.

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Pacioretty - " The onus can't always be on the hitter "

I wonder if he felt the same way last year.

The league is trying to get rid of shots to the head, not open ice hits. Pacioretty is an idiot.
This ^

"Patches" broke the guys nose for chrissake. It was a HEAD shot. What a dummy.

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Old
11-29-2011, 06:04 PM
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KnightofBoston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Max shouldn't be confused because this issue has been a reoccurring topic and he's had ample enough time to see the videos that Shanahan has made available to all the clubs and public. The head cannot be targeted or the point of contact.
the problem, I suppose anyways, is that he and Letang made eye contact before so Letang knew the hit was coming and put his head in a shooting position anyways, and that Max was going for a shoulder to shoulder hit that ended up hitting mostly head because of the height difference at the moment of impact

so the question becomes, do you just avoid that hit all together now? Do you use your forearms to make sure you don't make contact with the head?

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