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Old
09-12-2004, 04:28 AM
  #1
Bennevol10
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Gagne

I don't think Gagne going to be a 1st line Hockey player most us(flyers fans) think ... I think he is a good second line player who can fill in as a 1st line player... At best he will be 20 to 30(max) goals scorer and 60 to 70(max) points a season ... His value is going down the older he is getting... I thought we stole Gagne in 22nd overall... All the players drafted before and after him becoming better players then him ... Example: Alex Tanguay, Lecavalier, Brad Richards, Gomez(you can argue on this one)...

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09-12-2004, 06:38 AM
  #2
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I love how people call him overrated and then underrate him in the same breath.

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09-12-2004, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
His value is going down the older he is getting...
He isn't even at the peak of his carreer yet it's not like he's 31 years old.


And Alex Tanguay is not better than him. He will become Ville Nieminen when he has to go somewhere and be the best player on his line. When Nieminen was with Colorado, he was the next big thing and he is nothing more and a 3rd line player. You want to talk aout overrated players? Let's talk Alex Tanguay.



And don't sound so excited next time.

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09-12-2004, 11:00 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
I don't think Gagne going to be a 1st line Hockey player most us(flyers fans) think ... I think he is a good second line player who can fill in as a 1st line player... At best he will be 20 to 30(max) goals scorer and 60 to 70(max) points a season ... His value is going down the older he is getting... I thought we stole Gagne in 22nd overall... All the players drafted before and after him becoming better players then him ... Example: Alex Tanguay, Lecavalier, Brad Richards, Gomez(you can argue on this one)...
Gagne>Tanguay

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Old
09-12-2004, 11:01 AM
  #5
FearTheFlyers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
I don't think Gagne going to be a 1st line Hockey player most us(flyers fans) think ... I think he is a good second line player who can fill in as a 1st line player... At best he will be 20 to 30(max) goals scorer and 60 to 70(max) points a season ... His value is going down the older he is getting... I thought we stole Gagne in 22nd overall... All the players drafted before and after him becoming better players then him ... Example: Alex Tanguay, Lecavalier, Brad Richards, Gomez(you can argue on this one)...
http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=98701

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09-12-2004, 11:10 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
I don't think Gagne going to be a 1st line Hockey player most us(flyers fans) think ... I think he is a good second line player who can fill in as a 1st line player... At best he will be 20 to 30(max) goals scorer and 60 to 70(max) points a season ... His value is going down the older he is getting... I thought we stole Gagne in 22nd overall... All the players drafted before and after him becoming better players then him ... Example: Alex Tanguay, Lecavalier, Brad Richards, Gomez(you can argue on this one)...
Have you ever heard of developing a two way game. Sure all those guys offensive numbers are improving, but none of them play defense nearly as well as Simon. Hitch is trying to mode him into the next Modano and his defense is there. I think he's really close to putting it all together and becoming a great two-way player, something none of those guys are. I also find your 30 max comment interesting considering that he scored 33 when he was 21. He also scored at a 45 goal clip when playing on a scoring line last season for 20 games.

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Old
09-12-2004, 12:43 PM
  #7
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Gagne will have a breakout season, whenever hockey does start again.

Gagne really off in 02-03, and the first half of the 03-04 season.
However, he has really developed into an fantastic checker, and once given the time and role with Zhamnov late in the season, scored 10 goals in 20 games.

Given the fact that Gagne will now be our first line LW, get gobs of ice time, PP time, etc etc, he should get back on track to where he was two years ago.
There is a reason he was picked for team Canada, and is playing every night, for the world cup.
Remember the kid had 27 goals in 69 games his second year, and 33 the following.

Gagne should settle in as a 30 goal, 60-70 point forward from here on out in his career.
The thing that would/does concern me about Gagne is how injury prone and soft he is.
if he can just stay healthy, which seems to be a direct link to his confidence, he will be fine.

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Old
09-12-2004, 12:45 PM
  #8
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Zhamnov + Gagne = 30+ goals for Gagne

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09-12-2004, 01:00 PM
  #9
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First of all, don't like to break it to you, but 30 goals and 70 points is a top-line player in the NHL. Gagne is the best defensive guy out of those mentioned (defense wins in today's NHL) and unlike a lot of those guys, he is a raw goal scorer, he is not really a playmaker. He managed to put up 24 goals last year despite playing on the checking line a lot of the time, 02-03 was off because of injuries which bugged him for the whole year. Put him with Zhamnov for the whole year and he'll pot 35. I think he is still one of the elite players of that draft no question.

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Old
09-12-2004, 01:28 PM
  #10
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Seriously, if you have 30 goals in a season anymore you're up for mvp honors. Martin st. Louis score like 32 (didn't check this number) last year. Gagne definitely is still learning and has plenty of talent.

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Old
09-12-2004, 03:08 PM
  #11
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he's been burried behind a certian overpriced LW on the depth chart. Look what Gagne did when he was a first line LW a few years ago

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09-12-2004, 04:19 PM
  #12
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for the sake of hitting the point home and beating the dead horse......
gagne needs more ice time

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Old
09-12-2004, 05:18 PM
  #13
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Beating a dead horse again.

Gagne as the first line LW with a center who can actually get him the puck (That means not Roenick or Primeau) will score 35G and 75Points.

He scored 33 with Langkow as his center, who is an above average playmaker, but not the caliber of Zhamnov.

For those of you who cant get this through their head, i will repeat for the 300th time:

24 GOALS ON THE THIRD LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

10 GOALS IN 12 GAMES WITH ZHAMNOV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


With several questions on this team, forget about Gagne. With Recchi gone, he is now the best player on the team and one of the best 2-way players in the league
How many 3rd liners scored 24 goals last year. That is the leader on most teams in the league

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Old
09-12-2004, 05:24 PM
  #14
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Gagne also got slim pickings when it came to PP time. He was on the third unit and very rarely got any PP time at all.

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Old
09-12-2004, 06:15 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr
He scored 33 with Langkow as his center, who is an above average playmaker, but not the caliber of Zhamnov.
Actually, it was Primeau. Gagne-Primeau-Recchi.

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Old
09-13-2004, 11:25 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
I don't think Gagne going to be a 1st line Hockey player most us(flyers fans) think ... I think he is a good second line player who can fill in as a 1st line player... At best he will be 20 to 30(max) goals scorer and 60 to 70(max) points a season ... His value is going down the older he is getting... I thought we stole Gagne in 22nd overall... All the players drafted before and after him becoming better players then him ... Example: Alex Tanguay, Lecavalier, Brad Richards, Gomez(you can argue on this one)...
Gagne>Tanguay>>>You

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Old
09-13-2004, 11:32 AM
  #17
fan mao rong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
... I thought we stole Gagne in 22nd overall... All the players drafted before and after him becoming better players then him ...
Let's see somebody should post the entire draft list of the year Gagne was drafted, because every player before and after him is becoming better than he is. Now if somebody would do that, each and every one of 'em could be compared.

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Old
09-13-2004, 11:39 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
l... All the players drafted before and after him becoming better players then him ... Example: Alex Tanguay, Lecavalier, Brad Richards, Gomez(you can argue on this one)...
you mean such emerging superstars as :
4 Vancouver Bryan Allen
5 Anaheim Vitali Vishnevsky
6 Calgary Rico Fata
7 NY Rangers Manny Malhotra
8 Chicago Mark Bell
9 NY Islanders Michael Rupp
10 Toronto Nikolai Antropov
11 Carolina Jeff Heerema
13 Edmonton Michael Henrich
14 Phoenix Patrick DesRochers
15 Ottawa Mathieu Chouinard
16 Mtl. Canadiens Eric Chouinard
17 Colorado Martin Skoula
18 Buffalo Dmitri Kalinin
20 Colorado Scott Parker
24 St. Louis Christian Backman
28 Colorado Ramzi Abid
30 Florida Kyle Rossiter

he was the steal of that draft, just ahead of Cheechoo...
your thoery holds no water...


Last edited by moosejaw: 09-13-2004 at 11:42 AM.
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Old
09-13-2004, 01:05 PM
  #19
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this post is idiotic... the guy is on team canada for a reason, it isn't as if that is an easy squad to get on. he HASN'T been a top-line player under Hitch yet, and he is never out there on the PP(which is where guys pad their stats).

if he gets on a line with Zhamnov, pray that we sign him so this can happen, he's going to have a 30 goal season easy without ramped up PP time, probably chip in somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 assists and a solid +25 or so... now, lets stretch that thread out a bit farther. if he is also given a large chunk of the PP time on this team, which is almost a lock with Rex, Amonte, and Leclair no longer on this team... we should have Pits, Johnsson, Seids(great shot for the PP), and Rico manning the points, all are quality PP defensemen in the NHL. Zhamnov is a great playmaker at the center spot, Roenick has a very good PP one-timer, Primeau has shown at times great junk goal ability on the PP, Knuble will probably be down there, as well as Handzus taking second unit center jobs... Gagne probably ends up along the half boards for the first PP unit with Zhamnov working down low in the corner and Roenick hanging in the slot pressuring the the center of the defense...

PP unit 1.
Gagne-Zhamnov-Roenick
Pitkanen-Johnsson

PP unit 2.
Primeau-Handzus-Kapanen/Knuble(this spot will prolly be fluid)
Seids(Malakhov not being around)-Desjardins

those units will probably both produce decently, and Zhamnov will make the first unit deadly... i can see Roenick one-timers from the slot, give and go's with Gagne coming off the wall, and streaking Pitkanens and Johnsson coming backpost from the point... if only hockey was going to exist.

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Old
09-13-2004, 10:16 PM
  #20
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Gagne problem was he had a great season young. He is a strong player that any GM would take. The people saying he was not a steal in his draft spot are sitting at home for a reason.

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Old
09-14-2004, 02:54 PM
  #21
Bennevol10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosejaw
you mean such emerging superstars as :
4 Vancouver Bryan Allen
5 Anaheim Vitali Vishnevsky
6 Calgary Rico Fata
7 NY Rangers Manny Malhotra
8 Chicago Mark Bell
9 NY Islanders Michael Rupp
10 Toronto Nikolai Antropov
11 Carolina Jeff Heerema
13 Edmonton Michael Henrich
14 Phoenix Patrick DesRochers
15 Ottawa Mathieu Chouinard
16 Mtl. Canadiens Eric Chouinard
17 Colorado Martin Skoula
18 Buffalo Dmitri Kalinin
20 Colorado Scott Parker
24 St. Louis Christian Backman
28 Colorado Ramzi Abid
30 Florida Kyle Rossiter

he was the steal of that draft, just ahead of Cheechoo...
your thoery holds no water...


You forgot to mention Brad Richards... All I am saying is he needs to step up if he wants to be supperstar or franchise player like some people think he already is... He needs come out of the shadow and show that he can lead a team or score clutch goals consistently... That's all I am saying His window of becoming good player is closing each year because he is getting older... Just becasue he is in Canadian national team it doesn't mean his is the best... I can argue that Primeau should be in that before Draper Kris or Maltby Kirk... Just because they are in that team does that mean those two players supperstars... Offcourse not... Greztky said he picked Gagne for defense not because of his scoring ability... What does that say? Can anyone tell me? What line does a defensive minded players play usually? Was Gagne in line 1 like he was in Olympic? What does that say?

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09-14-2004, 03:07 PM
  #22
moosejaw
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[QUOTE=Bennevol10]I thought we stole Gagne in 22nd overall... All the players drafted before and after him becoming better players then him QUOTE]

THAT is what YOU said...so I went ahead and listed 18 obvious contradictions to your point...your original post was idiotic, face it...

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Old
09-14-2004, 03:37 PM
  #23
GKJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
I can argue that Primeau should be in that before Draper Kris or Maltby Kirk...
So can I. However, Keith Primeau is still experiencing concussion symptoms and wouldn't have played anyways. He is not too thrilled with Hockey Canada.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
Just because they are in that team does that mean those two players supperstars... Offcourse not...
Is Gretzky putting together a collection of great players, or is Gretzky putting together a team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
Greztky said he picked Gagne for defense not because of his scoring ability... What does that say? Can anyone tell me?
I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
What line does a defensive minded players play usually?
The checking line, and penalty killing unit. He picked Gagne because he is one of the best defensive fowards in the league. That's saying a lot for someone that came out of the QMJHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennevol10
Was Gagne in line 1 like he was in Olympic? What does that say?
Well he did play with Joe Sakic and Jarome Iginla. Sakic was voted the Olympics' most outstanding player and Iginla, well he isn't too bad. Simon Gagne was the youngest player on the team as well. It sure says a hell of a lot about Simon Gagne.

Simon Gagne was picked out of the best Canadian players in the World, and you're trying to find negative things to say.

Are the Eagles your first team?

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Old
09-14-2004, 03:42 PM
  #24
Jester
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I heard Primeau was asked but said no due to his concussion problems persisting.

As for Gagne... not worth arguing over. The guy struggled following his shoulder injury, then had the groin and everything else. Was a sucky time, but he turned it back on a bit last year and put up decent numbers. His numbers should only increase with a spot on the top-line most likely as well as some PP time...

I've been thinking about the PP some more and it will be curious to see how Hitch deals with the fact that Gags is one of our best, and most dangerous, PK'ers along with Kapanen. He could get a ton of minutes next time we see the NHL if he's working both shifts.

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Old
09-14-2004, 03:47 PM
  #25
Jester
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"His window of opportunity is closing"

he's 24...

How many 24-year olds have had the success he's already had, been to two Conference Finals(one as a major contributor), All-Star Game, and twice on team Canada?

I'd say he's made a pretty big splash on the other side of the window. His offensive numbers slacked off following the seperated shoulder, mostly cuz he shied away from contact for a bit, then he ripped his groin in half... fun times. Last year he started slow, had a crappy shooting percentage the first half of the season(he led the team in shots in December... the chances were there) and started to heat up the second half, really taking off when Zhamnov centered him.

I'm not concerned. He's not going to be a 100 point guy, but not many are. If we can get a consistent 30ish-30ish-65ish +25 out of him I'll be stoked... Personally, on a scoring line, I think that is doable from him without having a huge bonus in PP time which he's sorely lacked the last few years under Hitch(who compares him to Modano).

Stop crapping on the kid. He's pretty good.

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