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Better hands: Lemieux or Datsyuk?

View Poll Results: Who has better hands?
Datsyuk 79 24.92%
Lemieux 220 69.40%
Too close to call 18 5.68%
Voters: 317. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-04-2011, 06:36 AM
  #76
GardinerExpressway
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Are you kidding me? Crosby is talented but he's not the most skilled player.

Malkin is more skilled than Crosby. Crosby has a better work ethic and plays 100% during games but he's not more skilled than Malkin and nowhere near Lemieux.

In fact Jagr who originally held the title for the most skilled player in the world (passing, skating, shooting, stickhandling, vision) can be argued is still more skilled than Crosby is even at age 39.

Most skilled doesn't mean the best player or best scorer, just ask Kovalev.

Being the best scorer and or best player requires a combination of things, skill, drive, determination, mental toughness, the clutch factor, luck, remaining healthy.

Crosby for all he did last year and what he's done in his first 6 games this year, is being so overrated right now.

I can guarantee that Crosby won't finish in the top 10 in scoring.
Whatever you're smoking, I'd like some. Crosby is more skilled than Malkin everyday of the week and twice on Sunday (as in INEC). Jagr in his prime? ... Maybe they're closer (I'd probably still take Crosby it whatevs).

Regardless this poll isn't about either of them and from your user name, you clearly aren't exactly impartial ...

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Old
12-04-2011, 03:11 PM
  #77
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Better with puck in terms of puck handling? Datsyuk.

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12-04-2011, 06:17 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Auliewantsisplayoffs View Post
Thank you! ... and was a dominant, league-mystifying force in all three decades by the way.

Reading through this thread is hurting my head. Datsyuk is an incredible talent and it is probably a shame that his career is juxtaposed against the likes of first Mario and now Crosby, but ... the people who are saying that Datsyuk's hands are as good for reasons that the game has evolved need to get a clue.

Not only could Mario do all the things that Datsyuk can, but for the first two decades of his career he had to do it while defensemen were allowed to literally hang off of him dragging him down without penalties. There was almost no 4 on 4 play, there was no two line pass, there were no shootouts to show off in front of the cameras that instigate the creation of these little noodles Datsyuk does (incredible that they may be).

To put it simply, Mario Lemieux, and his incredible talent, is the reason they changed the rules, he was a diamond in the rough during his era and they wanted to make it easier for high end talent to showcase their abilities. That Datsyuk has done it merely proves they were right, not that he comes close to the man who paved the way.

I couldn't even find the example I wanted from YT where a goon engages in holding/interference/hooking from about the red line and Mario still roofed it over the goalie, but this top ten gives plenty of evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu1Hq-13JcY

... P.S. Those who were saying he was 'below average' at face-offs might want to check out #5.
I think this is the clip you were thinking of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0OCTC03Vzo

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12-04-2011, 09:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Kuhta View Post
Better with puck in terms of puck handling? Datsyuk.


Where did you get even get the words "better with puck" in the poll question?


I hate it when people answer their own question instead of the poll question.

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Old
12-04-2011, 10:26 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Unaffiliated View Post


Where did you get even get the words "better with puck" in the poll question?


I hate it when people answer their own question instead of the poll question.
So are we referring to "better hands better without the puck?" 'Cause that would be Datsyuk

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Old
12-05-2011, 12:28 AM
  #81
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Both Mario and Jagr were superior to Datsyuk.

Stickhandling can only be judged by what the players have done against defenders , how long they can maintain control of the puck against players trying to get the puck from them or stopping the stickhandler from getting pass them , and Lemieux is clearly #1 all-time with Jagr having a strong case for 2nd place.

There's also guys like Kovalev , Savard , Lafleur ect...


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 12-05-2011 at 12:50 AM.
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Old
12-05-2011, 12:28 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Jrez56 View Post
I think this is the clip you were thinking of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0OCTC03Vzo
That's the one! I think the version I saw before was in colour and a bit higher quality but I think it clearly gets the point across about the difference between what each of Lemieux and Datsyuk have to face in terms of defense, lol.

Thank you sir.

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12-05-2011, 01:55 PM
  #83
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So are we referring to "better hands better without the puck?" 'Cause that would be Datsyuk
"Hands" does not only encompass flashy stickhandling when you have the puck.

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Old
12-06-2011, 04:17 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Auliewantsisplayoffs View Post
Whatever you're smoking, I'd like some. Crosby is more skilled than Malkin everyday of the week and twice on Sunday (as in INEC). Jagr in his prime? ... Maybe they're closer (I'd probably still take Crosby it whatevs).

Regardless this poll isn't about either of them and from your user name, you clearly aren't exactly impartial ...
Jägr in his prime > crosby bro, get real.

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12-06-2011, 04:22 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Jagr says hello.

I think though in order the best stickhandlers of all time are

1. Jagr
2. Lemieux
3. Kovalev
4. Datsyuk
5. Orr
This is almost spot on with my list, I don't put Datsyuk top 5 just yet. To say Datsyuk over Mario at this point is silly.

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12-07-2011, 06:41 PM
  #86
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i havnt read one single post of this thread (as i usually do because I like to see how my hockey knowledge fairs with some of the best fans of the game)


I have never said that (lol dont know why this time) I think it is most definetely Lemeiux. You might think Im picking the obvious choice because he is a far better player but I will give you my reasons.

Yes Datsyuk is definetely more of a flashy stick handler. He has done things with the puck and twisting his body at the same time that will not be matched by many players in the future.
But Ive watched many many goals by mario, more specifically breakways and some of the deaks he performs are some of the most simple deaks opitcally yet the goalie is completly lost and mario slides it home easily. And yes I know some of the goalies in the 80s are terrible but in the 90s and 2000s absolutely not. He has so many subtle moves that we as fans might not even beable to comprehend what he is doing. Heck im sure there are high level players that wouldnt understand it. Im willing to bet that players like Mario and Wayne have things about the game they fail to share with the rest of us because it might just sound stupid, especially if they would have talked about it in the 80s and 90s.


Alls I can say is:
Mario and Datsyuk were neither the best or fastest skaters in the world and yet somehow one player has put himself in the same category as wayne and the other isnt even remotely close. The only answer here is Mario.

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Old
12-07-2011, 06:44 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by drs151 View Post
i havnt read one single post of this thread (as i usually do because I like to see how my hockey knowledge fairs with some of the best fans of the game)


I have never said that (lol dont know why this time) I think it is most definetely Lemeiux. You might think Im picking the obvious choice because he is a far better player but I will give you my reasons.

Yes Datsyuk is definetely more of a flashy stick handler. He has done things with the puck and twisting his body at the same time that will not be matched by many players in the future.
But Ive watched many many goals by mario, more specifically breakways and some of the deaks he performs are some of the most simple deaks opitcally yet the goalie is completly lost and mario slides it home easily. And yes I know some of the goalies in the 80s are terrible but in the 90s and 2000s absolutely not. He and so many subtle moves that we as fans might not even beable to comprehend. Im willing to bet that players like Mario and Wayne have things about the game they fail to share with the rest of us because it might just sound stupid, especially if they would have talked about it in the 80s and 90s.


Alls I can say is:
Mario and Datsyuk were neither the best or fastest skaters in the world and yet somehow one player has put himself in the same category as wayne and the other isnt even remotely close. The only answer here is Mario.
Mario before his bad back was an explosive skater and considering his size, he was "fast".

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12-07-2011, 07:15 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drs151 View Post
i havnt read one single post of this thread (as i usually do because I like to see how my hockey knowledge fairs with some of the best fans of the game)


I have never said that (lol dont know why this time) I think it is most definetely Lemeiux. You might think Im picking the obvious choice because he is a far better player but I will give you my reasons.

Yes Datsyuk is definetely more of a flashy stick handler. He has done things with the puck and twisting his body at the same time that will not be matched by many players in the future.
But Ive watched many many goals by mario, more specifically breakways and some of the deaks he performs are some of the most simple deaks opitcally yet the goalie is completly lost and mario slides it home easily. And yes I know some of the goalies in the 80s are terrible but in the 90s and 2000s absolutely not. He has so many subtle moves that we as fans might not even beable to comprehend what he is doing. Heck im sure there are high level players that wouldnt understand it. Im willing to bet that players like Mario and Wayne have things about the game they fail to share with the rest of us because it might just sound stupid, especially if they would have talked about it in the 80s and 90s.


Alls I can say is:
Mario and Datsyuk were neither the best or fastest skaters in the world and yet somehow one player has put himself in the same category as wayne and the other isnt even remotely close. The only answer here is Mario.
For real? Mario is one of the most physically gifted players of all time. Don't act like he only relied on skill to be one of the best players of all time. Not disputing his skill, but honestly, he certainly used his size and speed to his advantage, and he was smart to do so. Datsyuk has a big disadvantage considering he's not an incredible skater, not as big as Mario, and doesn't have his reach. Datsyuk has to work that much harder to deke people out of their jocks

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Old
12-07-2011, 07:37 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
This thread is about who had the better hands, as in stickhandling. What I meant was, in the area of stockhandling Datsyuk can do everything that Lemieux ever did - while Lemieux couldn't do everything that Datsyuk can do and is doing on a nightly basis.

Why are you bringing Hodgkin's desease and boxing out with hips, totally irrelevant when considering the topic of this thread?
Stickhandling isn't all there is to his hands. I would argue that Lemieux was also the more effective stickhandler, but when you couple them hands with finishing, it's Lemieux by a few hundred miles. No one had better hands, he has the best hands of all time and Datsyuk isn't even close.

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12-07-2011, 07:38 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868
Jagr says hello.

I think though in order the best stickhandlers of all time are

1. Jagr
2. Lemieux
3. Kovalev
4. Datsyuk
5. Orr
Who could have seen this coming?

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12-07-2011, 07:40 PM
  #91
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Never said he could. My point is the notion that because Mario Lemieux was such a legend that nobody else can touch his almighty skills is BS. The fact that Datsyuk is a better defensive player disproves that illogical theory.



and company? yeah, that company was the pylons I was referring to. I'm sorry but 7 great defensemen don't make up for the hundreds of sucky ones.
Datsyuk is better defensively for one reason, he has to be, his offense alone isn't even close. If he had the ability to score 150 points a year, he would, but he can't.


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12-07-2011, 07:41 PM
  #92
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super mario. best player i have ever seen.

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12-07-2011, 10:42 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Mario before his bad back was an explosive skater and considering his size, he was "fast".
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanZ View Post
For real? Mario is one of the most physically gifted players of all time. Don't act like he only relied on skill to be one of the best players of all time. Not disputing his skill, but honestly, he certainly used his size and speed to his advantage, and he was smart to do so. Datsyuk has a big disadvantage considering he's not an incredible skater, not as big as Mario, and doesn't have his reach. Datsyuk has to work that much harder to deke people out of their jocks
fair enough guys. Maybe to me Mario just looked a little sluggish due to his big size. Im sure in reality he was fast


And to the bolded part. Yes Mario was one of the most physically gifted players but how often did he get to use that? His back was in bad shape for a good chunk of his career where his size wasnt utilized nearly as much. Many many games he did have to rely on his skill instead of speed and explosiveness.

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12-07-2011, 10:45 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by drs151 View Post
fair enough guys. Maybe to me Mario just looked a little sluggish due to his big size. Im sure in reality he was fast


And to the bolded part. Yes Mario was one of the most physically gifted players but how often did he get to use that? His back was in bad shape for a good chunk of his career where his size wasnt utilized nearly as much. Many many games he did have to rely on his skill instead of speed and explosiveness.
Speed and explosiveness are skills though too. Lemieux was the complete offensive force, he had the size, the speed, the vision, the hands, the strength, the shot, the passing.

The only player in recent memory that comes close to Lemieux' combination of all this is Jagr.

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12-07-2011, 10:54 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Speed and explosiveness are skills though too. Lemieux was the complete offensive force, he had the size, the speed, the vision, the hands, the strength, the shot, the passing.

The only player in recent memory that comes close to Lemieux' combination of all this is Jagr.
yah i should have said stick handling ability instead of skill. Either way its quite documented about his long term back problems. Ive played hockey with a bad back. It greatly affects speed and explosivness. alls im saying is that there were many games where im sure stick handling was pretty much all he had.

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12-07-2011, 11:11 PM
  #96
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Lemieux, but cmon, it is a little close.

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12-08-2011, 11:39 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Datsyuk is better defensively for one reason, he has to be, his offense alone isn't even close. If he had the ability to score 150 points a year, he would, but he can't.
Datsyuk is better defensively because for the last two decades the Wings organization has developed and groomed their forwards to be two-way players. Yzerman once scored over 150 points, but then transformed his game. Datsyuk wouldn't score 150, but I have a hard time believing he wouldn't have hit 100+ several times considering he scored 97 twice.

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12-08-2011, 04:53 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Unaffiliated View Post
"Hands" does not only encompass flashy stickhandling when you have the puck.
Perhaps a poll that wasn't so vague... "Hands" could mean anything.

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12-08-2011, 05:08 PM
  #99
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12-09-2011, 12:02 AM
  #100
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Datsyuk easily.

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