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Hello. My name is Al Montoya. I play for the Isles. Prepare to lose.

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Old
11-30-2011, 02:47 PM
  #101
Ted Black
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I only read the first page, but this negative nancy stuff is irritating.

The Sabres played great. The effort was tremendous. With so many injuries especially what more can you ask for? You win some, you lose some. That's just the way it goes.

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11-30-2011, 02:48 PM
  #102
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I would like to know what's up with the ice though. The puck just won't settle down at FNC

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11-30-2011, 02:51 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Black View Post
I only read the first page, but this negative nancy stuff is irritating.

The Sabres played great. The effort was tremendous. With so many injuries especially what more can you ask for? You win some, you lose some. That's just the way it goes.
Can't win games by playing hard, and not capitalizing on blatant chances. Time and time again we hear the same hockey cliches from Ruff and the players interviewed.

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11-30-2011, 02:56 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by indigoo View Post
Can't win games by playing hard, and not capitalizing on blatant chances. Time and time again we hear the same hockey cliches from Ruff and the players interviewed.
I think the point is that if they play like that night in and night out, they will make it into the playoffs just fine.

I also had no problem with how they played last night. Obviously a few individual efforts left a bit to be desired (Leino, Gragnani), but they were creating a lot of good chances and limiting the Isles chances.

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11-30-2011, 03:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by volatile View Post
I think the point is that if they play like that night in and night out, they will make it into the playoffs just fine.

I also had no problem with how they played last night. Obviously a few individual efforts left a bit to be desired (Leino, Gragnani), but they were creating a lot of good chances and limiting the Isles chances.
Yes, I agree with you on overall effort. Key moments could have won it for us, and it just wasn't good enough. Came down to a few players obviously.

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11-30-2011, 03:08 PM
  #106
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G: This thread title.

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11-30-2011, 03:16 PM
  #107
Ted Black
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I guess I've just always been in the camp of people who just want to see a really hard effort. That's honestly all I really ask for and they had that and then some last night IMO.

There is just so much negativity around here and sometimes I can understand it, but lately? I mean we were missing 9 guys, we're still missing quite a few and the guys played their ***** off last night but people are still *****ing?
Why o why is the crowd so lifeless in Buffalo???

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11-30-2011, 03:21 PM
  #108
joshjull
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
The bolded is actually a strawman, Josh. You're changing my argument. Nice try. I didn't say anyone's praising them. There's a difference between people praising them and them being almost completely immune from criticism. Where are the the threads wondering what happened to Gerbe's goal-scoring? Where are the threads inquiring whether Gerbe's second half was a mirage? Where are the threads requesting that Gaustad score more than the three goals he's on pace for this season--I'd argue that while he's not a goal-scorer, he's always been asked to score 10-15 goals to provide scoring depth.

You also must be on a different forum than I am if you think Goose is immune to criticism. He was hammered after the Flyers series for not being able to stop Briere and not producing offense. He was hammered again after the Lucic hit for not responding. There is a decent size group that thinks he is very overrated and bag on him when ever an oportunity presents itself. As a fan of Goose and someone thats defended him in numerous debates. I can tell you he gets quite a lot of criticism and is far from immune. Gerbe has also been criticised in recent weeks for bad penalties and lack of focus. Some have even wondered if his 2nd half was a fluke.

You're not actually wondering why Stafford and Leino are getting hammered more than Gerbe and Goose over their offensive struggles? You do understand the difference in expectations?


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Weber was another example of a guy who gets far more rope than the "finesse" players. If you play hard and are physical, you largely avoid blame on this board. Posters confuse effort and achievement.
No, posters understand that there is a pecking order of accountibility when it comes to offense. Guys like Vanek, Pommer, Roy, Stafford and Leino are at the top for the forwards. It makes sense that guys like Stafford, Leino and to a lesser extent Roy are getting the lions share of criticism for the team's offensive woes. Becasue they are the guys that are supposed to be providing the offense.

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I said Stafford was creating chances, which is more than what most of the other forwards were doing--and, besides Leino and Roy, going completely unblamed. Maybe it's better to be invisible than to be almost scoring.

And I'm not giving Stafford a free pass at all. He needs to be scoring. But he's creating more chances for himself and his linemates than a lot of other players.

As I've stated all along, Stafford needs to start hitting the scoresheet more. I'd be a lot more worried if his line was creating chances. Leino-Roy-Stafford was our best line for a couple weeks. Leino-Boyes-Stafford was buzzing for awhile. They gotta finish. But they're doing good things in the offensive zone. Do you dispute this?
I've defended all them and their lack of production up until recently in the same manner you are right now. But its not enough anymore. They need to finish.

I think you agree with me but want to mitigate it by saying they are creating chances.

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I treat Vanek like I treat every player on this team. He's praised when he deserves it. But he's also going to be called out when he makes poor play during a game, just like Roy, Leino, and Stafford are. If you don't like it, too bad.
Good for you. I'm talking about context and why posters cut Vanek slack. Calling him Teflon Tom implies a bitterness that he isn't being hammered like Stafford is when Stafford messes up. To me their seasons to date should be explaination enough for that difference. I could care less if you criticize him. But acting as if its unfair for fans to view him differently than Stafford is bit much.

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Vanek-Pommer haven't been creating near the chances they should in recent games. Hence why people are blaming Hecht's presence on that line--it's always someone else's fault, after all. The team would be on a five-game losing streak but for a team actively trying to get its coach fired, and those two--among many others--haven't been good enough during this time.
Vanek/Pommer have still been good. They just haven't been off the charts like they were previously. We knew if Stafford/Roy/Leino didn't get going before this happpend we would be in trouble.

Did you really expect Vanek/Pommer to carry this team almost every night offensively?

With Vanek/Pommer you almost remind me of the posters that complain about Miller having bad couple games after 10 really good ones.

Quote:
Your obvious frustration with Stafford is evident by your tone. Stafford has been on a line that has been consistent with offensive zone pressure. Has it translated to goals yet? Nope. At the same time, his shooting% is incredibly low and will likely correct itself. He's getting shots and chances. If he continues, he'll score

I like what Stafford or Leino have done in the offensive zone. Now, the extension of that is that they have to produce. I'm not hear defending Leino, because he's done a lot of things to hurt the team that Stafford hasn't. If Drew keeps playing this way and creating chances, I think the goals will start going in as his shot% starts correcting itself over time.

Thats where are fundamental disagreement lies. You think if he keeps doing what he is doing the law of averages will even out and he will be fine going forward. Whereas I see the Stafford of 08-09 and 09-10 back. That would be the guy who played too much of a cute game and had shooting percentages of 10.9% and 7.7% those two seasons. Numbers not too far from his current 6.3% and no where near his 17.3% of last year.


I agree that Stafford can correct things and get rolling again. But its only going to happen if he gets back to playing like he did last season. Taking shots as soon as opportunites present themselves and bulling his way to the net. Once he gets a few goals from playing like that his confidence will grow and his game will get back on track. he needs to stop the dipsy doodling crap.

Quote:
Also, only one post about Enroth's comments?
I assume this is directed at the board as a whole. Since I have no idea why it would be directed at me.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-30-2011 at 03:40 PM.
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