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12-01-2011, 11:38 AM
  #301
imyourhuckleberry
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Just saw that the entire Ducks coaching staff was fired. I wonder if Sabres will look into bringing Foligno on in some capacity as there were rumors of him joining the staff before the season.

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12-01-2011, 11:38 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
This is still Regier's team, and he will not part with the pieces necessary to obtain Ryan. Unless Pegula really gets involved, expect nothing.
How do you know that?

If you asked me one year ago if the Sabres would sign Ville Leino in free agency or trade a draft pick just for the OPPORTUNITY to sign Ehrhoff, I would have told you you were nuts.

Regier was never willing to part with the necessary assets in the past because he needed cheap, young talent to replace older guys we couldn't afford. That's no longer a problem. Darcy clearly showed he can adapt given the UFA moves; who's to say he wouldn't do the same here?

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12-01-2011, 11:39 AM
  #303
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I would think it is for lydman...the sabres have lacked a stabilizing presence on the back end for awhile now...given the injuries on d and the complete circus it has been I wouldn't be surprised to see them go back to someone they know. Also, both leo and regehr have played with lydman in Calgary, along with those current buffalo d men that are familiar with him...thus, it would be much easier to integrate him into our system than someone else.

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12-01-2011, 11:42 AM
  #304
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I'm also not sure if Ryan addresses our most glaring needs...yes, he is very skilled, but he is known to take nights off and doesn't play with the edge his two line mates often show case. He would be drew stafford with much better hands...is that worth the price to get him?

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12-01-2011, 12:01 PM
  #305
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Quote:
"Despite coaching change, Ducks still considering offers for Bobby Ryan, others. They know they're not contenders as is."

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12-01-2011, 12:03 PM
  #306
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"Despite coaching change, Ducks still considering offers for Bobby Ryan, others. They know they're not contenders as is."

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12-01-2011, 12:15 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
I'm also not sure if Ryan addresses our most glaring needs...yes, he is very skilled, but he is known to take nights off and doesn't play with the edge his two line mates often show case. He would be drew stafford with much better hands...is that worth the price to get him?
I think he's an upgrade on Stafford in all aspects of the game: offense, defense, special teams, physical play, etc

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12-01-2011, 12:20 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
I'm also not sure if Ryan addresses our most glaring needs...yes, he is very skilled, but he is known to take nights off and doesn't play with the edge his two line mates often show case. He would be drew stafford with much better hands...is that worth the price to get him?
agreed. He's worth it if we don't overpay by much, but some of these proposals are straight-up whack.

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12-01-2011, 12:21 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I think he's an upgrade on Stafford in all aspects of the game: offense, defense, special teams, physical play, etc
Absolutely. Stafford doesn't hit people. Ryan does it on a gamely basis. If the offense isn't there, the physical presence is. Stafford has never provided us with that.

Bobby Ryan definitely makes us a better team, especially if the only roster forward removed is Staff.

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12-01-2011, 12:26 PM
  #310
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Welp, that answers my question. It's like they read this board.

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12-01-2011, 12:31 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by dire wolf View Post
agreed. He's worth it if we don't overpay by much, but some of these proposals are straight-up whack.
An "real" 30-40 goal, POWER forward, is a huge improvement to this team.

Stafford is not a power forward
Vanek is not a power forward

Unless we want to wait for Kassian to develop, and hope he develops top 6 offensive skills... then getting Ryan is a huge roster improvement


Stafford, Ennis, McNabb... is a monster price to pay. And I'd pay it.

Would I rather trade:
Stafford, Foligno, Brennan .... hell yes... but if you can get Bobby Ryan without really weakening your roster/current quest for a cup... you do it without hesitation.

Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Hecht-Roy-Ryan
Gerbe-HELP-Kassian
Kaleta-Goose-Parros

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12-01-2011, 12:39 PM
  #312
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Absolutely. Stafford doesn't hit people. Ryan does it on a gamely basis. If the offense isn't there, the physical presence is. Stafford has never provided us with that.

Bobby Ryan definitely makes us a better team, especially if the only roster forward removed is Staff.
I think your over estimating Ryan's physical side...he certainly can dominate in this way, but more often than not, like stafford, he plays at 80%. There is a reason they may move him and not one of the other members of the big three. He plays with the least amount of edge...

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12-01-2011, 12:45 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
I think your over estimating Ryan's physical side...he certainly can dominate in this way, but more often than not, like stafford, he plays at 80%. There is a reason they may move him and not one of the other members of the big three. He plays with the least amount of edge...
Ryan had 156 hits last season. If he were a Sabre, he'd have led our entire forward group. Including Gaustad, Kaleta (he missed time), and Grier. The next closest "top six player" to 156 was Brad Boyes with a whopping 67 hits. Stafford had 53 in 62 games.

I'm not over estimating anything. Ryan makes our pansy top-6 a lot less "pansy."

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12-01-2011, 12:45 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by sabresandcanucks View Post
I think your over estimating Ryan's physical side...he certainly can dominate in this way, but more often than not, like stafford, he plays at 80%. There is a reason they may move him and not one of the other members of the big three. He plays with the least amount of edge...
And it has nothing to do with his physical play. Getzlaf is their captain and a center, which is their weakest position. Perry is just flat out better offensively. Both of them are due new contracts after next season, and the Ducks can't afford to pay all three of them if they want to ice any kind of balanced roster. Considering Getzlaf and Perry will probably have cap hits of $6+ million, they'd be trying up close to $20 million a year in cap space on one line. That isn't going to fly.

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12-01-2011, 12:48 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
An "real" 30-40 goal, POWER forward, is a huge improvement to this team.

Stafford is not a power forward
Vanek is not a power forward

Unless we want to wait for Kassian to develop, and hope he develops top 6 offensive skills... then getting Ryan is a huge roster improvement


Stafford, Ennis, McNabb... is a monster price to pay. And I'd pay it.

Would I rather trade:
Stafford, Foligno, Brennan .... hell yes... but if you can get Bobby Ryan without really weakening your roster/current quest for a cup... you do it without hesitation.

Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Hecht-Roy-Ryan
Gerbe-HELP-Kassian
Kaleta-Goose-Parros
Criticize Stafford all you want but he's a power forward. He's not a dominant one but when he decides to show up that's his style of play.

Vanek is clearly a sniper but it takes a lot of power forward like abilities to play his style.

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12-01-2011, 12:51 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
Criticize Stafford all you want but he's a power forward. He's not a dominant one but when he decides to show up that's his style of play.

Vanek is clearly a sniper but it takes a lot of power forward like abilities to play his style.
Stafford is not a power forward. We want him to be, but he isn't. There's no jam in his game. He doesn't hit, he stopped crashing the net, he doesn't shoot. He's a big finesse winger.

Ryan Clowe and Bobby Ryan are power forwards. Stafford isn't.

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12-01-2011, 12:51 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
Criticize Stafford all you want but he's a power forward. He's not a dominant one but when he decides to show up that's his style of play.

Vanek is clearly a sniper but it takes a lot of power forward like abilities to play his style.
Both of them do some things power forwards do, but that doesn't make them power forwards. Stafford SHOULD be a power forward, but he isn't. That's part of his problem.

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12-01-2011, 12:54 PM
  #318
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Both of them do some things power forwards do, but that doesn't make them power forwards. Stafford SHOULD be a power forward, but he isn't. That's part of his problem.
Exactly. Overall, he's just more of the same with this team. He's a streaky scorer (who isn't even scoring this year) that tries to be way to creative instead of making the simple play.

Stafford has done nothing since about the fourth game of the season. He drives wide, doesn't crash the net, throws passes that don't connect into the slot, and doesn't finish when given the opportunity. Couple all of that with the fact that he isn't an intimidating physical presence in the slightest, and he's expendable.

If Stafford is involved in a trade for Ryan, I hope Bob Murray doesn't have the same outlook on Stafford as I do.

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12-01-2011, 12:54 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
Criticize Stafford all you want but he's a power forward. He's not a dominant one but when he decides to show up that's his style of play.

Vanek is clearly a sniper but it takes a lot of power forward like abilities to play his style.
see that's just it... a "not dominant" power forward, is actually just a forward.

a "not dominant" power forward is an oxymoron

Vanek can take a physical pounding around the net... but he has few, if any, "power forward" qualities.

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12-01-2011, 12:57 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
An "real" 30-40 goal, POWER forward, is a huge improvement to this team.

Stafford is not a power forward
Vanek is not a power forward

Unless we want to wait for Kassian to develop, and hope he develops top 6 offensive skills... then getting Ryan is a huge roster improvement


Stafford, Ennis, McNabb... is a monster price to pay. And I'd pay it.

Would I rather trade:
Stafford, Foligno, Brennan .... hell yes... but if you can get Bobby Ryan without really weakening your roster/current quest for a cup... you do it without hesitation.

Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Hecht-Roy-Ryan
Gerbe-HELP-Kassian
Kaleta-Goose-Parros
I'm just not convinced Ryan looks much better than Stafford if you take him away from Getzlaf and Perry.

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12-01-2011, 12:59 PM
  #321
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FWIW, he was awesome in the Olympics.

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12-01-2011, 01:01 PM
  #322
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Ryan provides a level of physical play that is beyond what Stafford ever has. Taking a look at the two over the last three full seasons (plus this one so far):
Ryan:
Games - Hits - Giveaways/Takeaways

(24 gp) - 40 - 13/7
(82 gp) - 156 - 42/62
(81 gp) - 127 - 29/41
(64 gp) - 78 - 39/22

Stafford:
Games - Hits - Giveaways/Takeaways

(23 gp) - 23 - 12/11
(62 gp) - 53 - 17/19
(71 gp) - 59 - 37/21
(79 gp) - 80 - 30/24

Thats 401 in 251 GP vs Drew's 215 in 235 GP. Better scoring production, more physical play, slightly higher salary. Darcy ought to be looking at swapping up here.

Another fun stat -- PP ToI. Over that span, he's not better than 4th on the Ducks among forwards. Basically, they use him on the second unit while giving Perry and Selanne the first team PP minutes. It's not like Buffalo couldn't role him out on their first unit by shifting a forward back onto the blueline or simply using him the way Boyes was when Brad was healthy. The kid's more than just a product of Perry and Getzlaf. He's a legit talent and Buffalo should be pressing hard to see what it takes to make this sort of deal.

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12-01-2011, 01:02 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
This is still Regier's team, and he will not part with the pieces necessary to obtain Ryan. Unless Pegula really gets involved, expect nothing.
This is typical "I'm going to give Regier credit for nothing" nonsense. If he swings a deal, you laud Pegula for getting involved and pushing Regier to get something done. If he doesn't get Ryan, it's "same old Darcy," and you say nothing about Pegula.

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12-01-2011, 01:08 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Stafford is not a power forward. We want him to be, but he isn't. There's no jam in his game. He doesn't hit, he stopped crashing the net, he doesn't shoot. He's a big finesse winger.

Ryan Clowe and Bobby Ryan are power forwards. Stafford isn't.
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Both of them do some things power forwards do, but that doesn't make them power forwards. Stafford SHOULD be a power forward, but he isn't. That's part of his problem.
Stafford isn't a power forward, and that realization is what prompted the organization to tell him to drop some weight heading into the 2010-11 season and be more of a skilled forward with good size. The result: 31 goals in 62 games. Now we're wishing he was a power forward again?

Does. Not. Compute.

I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Stafford in a package for Ryan, because I would. But complaining about Stafford not being a power forward when abandoning the attempt to be a power forward led to his awesomeness last year is pretty ridiculous.

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12-01-2011, 01:12 PM
  #325
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Stafford isn't a power forward, and that realization is what prompted the organization to tell him to drop some weight heading into the 2010-11 season and be more of a skilled forward with good size. The result: 31 goals in 62 games. Now we're wishing he was a power forward again?

Does. Not. Compute.

I'm not saying I wouldn't trade Stafford in a package for Ryan, because I would. But complaining about Stafford not being a power forward when abandoning the attempt to be a power forward led to his awesomeness last year is pretty ridiculous.
Your argument is weight = power forward? Does not compute is correct.

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