Not now he's not. But with a healthy Staal, emerging Erixon, and McIlrath in 2-3 years... he becomes it.
There is only 1 RH defenseman in that group. If we are lucky he will provide what Sauer does in 2 years, he's a prospect and a raw one at that. I just can't see Sauer being moved, not because I think he is untouchable in the traditional sense but really because we have limited options.
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"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
Based on the repeatedly stated cost to acquire Ryan the most I'd be willing to deal is Dubinsky, Erixon/McIlrath, pick/prospects. Dubinsky can fill in at center for them, and one of Erixon and McIlrath for a young stud defensemen.
How anyone can try to break up the Stepan line right now is unfathomable. I'd much rather keep Anisimov over Dubinsky. For those saying that Staal eventually coming back means that MDZ is expendable is a completely inaccurate statement. MDZ is our sole pure offensive defensemen that we have. Staal is a defensive defensemen. I love the way MDZ is playing and I don't want to move him.
I don't think Ryan will be moved anytime soon. Come Feb 27th, if Anaheim is still struggling then that's a different story.
Am I alone is seeing how valuable Sauer is? A physical, crease-clearing, few-mistake-making, young defenseman? Why on earth would anyone want to trade him?
Am I alone is seeing how valuable Dubi is? Skills-wise he isn't Ryan (or Stephen Weiss, another player these boards have traded him for a zillion times) but a trade that nets Ryan but costs us Dubi would make us a SOFTER team. Do we have any other players (aside from maybe Avery) who would carry on an ongoing feud with Crosby, Ovechkin, Mike Richards, and Chris Pronger? Didn't Pronger just call him a weasel? We need players like that to survive and thrive in the tough Atlantic Division.
Am I alone in seeing how much of an upside AA has? He has levels of potential he is just starting to reach. Plus is a sound defense player with a unique hybrid Russian/North American game. He might never net as many goals as Ryan but he could end up outscoring him as a center or winger perfectly playing with top end talent.
Yesterday I felt much stronger about trading for Ryan. Today I am having major second thoughts because any trade that costs us multiple players will not make us stronger.
Kreider? Give me a break....is there anyone more important for the future of this team than him? Aren't we all salivating to see how his skills and talent transitions to the Rangers and the NHL?
I think Ryan is a really top end player and if we could get him cheap I'd leap at it...but not at the cost of any multiple players in our present or future core. Stay the course, lets see how this all plays out.
Darren Dreger on NHL Live is saying he's legitimately available.
Says it will take a young center, young defenseman and a pick.
IF this is true what's being reported, then why is Kreider name keep being mentioned?
He doesn't fit what Anaheim reportedly wants.
Dubinsky, MDZ/Erixon, and a 1st.
Or Stepan/Anisimov, Wolski, MDZ/Erixon and a 1st.
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"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB "Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
Sestito still on the make a wish tour. - rholt168
I don't see why the Ducks would want MDZ. They already have a similar type player in Fowler. I still think McIlrath will get it done. He was one of the last cuts and could probably step in next season.
Believe Brooksie had him listed as one of the players that Rangers management is telling Anaheim is untouchable.
Really wouldn't want to trade for anyone if it meant giving up too many assets. Del Zotto I could live without. Other than that? I'd rather win with the guys we have. That's just me though.
We trade Dubi and our PK goes down the toilet...book it
Also book Callahan struggling, I feel like they feed off each other even if they aren't on the same line.
Dubi IS part of the teams core IMO
I don't like our Center depth if we lost Stepan.... AA is solid defensively but he's too inconsistent offensively..... Step is a gamer and the type of player who will deliver in big-game situations... I think we need to hold onto him....
First thing is first, this isn't fantasy hockey. This decision will impact at least the next 5 years of our organization.
Second, what's with all these statements of being fine with giving up our young players. No. I'm not "fine" with giving up anyone right now, unless we're talking about Wade Redden and Wojtek Wolski, especially not young pieces to our core and foundation.
I'll tell you what's realistic, that we DO NOT trade for Ryan. At this point, Glen Sather does not have the same liberties as he did 5 years ago. Our scouting department as well as Tortorella are promoting a youth movement. We went through a rough patch of mediocrity, but right now, the future is looking extremely bright *knock on wood*. Since we're promoting a youth movement and not collecting every star we can get our hands on (like in years past), more of our younger players will be considered "untouchable" by the FO.
Sure, you guys may be "fine" with giving these players up to get Ryan, but to the people who drafted/traded for our prospects, it is not "fine" to give them up.
Player 1:
Michael Del Zotto - He's not being traded. Give it up. He was called up at age 19. That's Staal status. He's our only decent puck moving defenseman. He's staying.
Player 2:
Dylan McIlrath - He's not being traded. Just because he hasn't been called up or hasn't had the results that many of you have wanted to see doesn't mean he's been made available. In fact, he was drafted with the knowledge that he'd take 4-5 years to develop. He's being compared to the likes of Orpik and Pronger.
Player 3:
Tim Erixon - He's not being traded. The scouting department loved him a few years ago, and Calgary snatched him up. We got him for a steal. He is also going to be a fixture on this team. He's smart, defensively very sound, and has some offense to his game.
Player 4:
Michael Sauer - The most expendable of our defenders, he's not being traded. With Staal out, he's become one of the main defender's our team has. Trading him leaves yet another hole in our defense. With Staal gone, and neither Erixon nor McIlrath ready to take that bulk of playing time, Sauer will not be traded.
Player 5:
Chris Kreider - The most likely of our top prospects to be traded, although, it is extremely unlikely. His speed is unseen in other players in the league. He is gritty, has decent skill, and versatile (as he plays on both the power play and kills off penalties as well). He fits the mold of the team identity.
It's been clear, that this team is unwilling to make big trades, because it would require giving up our youth. Not only are they unwilling to give up our youth, but they've remained patient in developing their prospects. That shows the commitment the FO has in this youth movement and in our prospects, to not only refuse to trade them, but also not rush the up (even if the team was struggling).
So enough of these ignorant comments claiming how "fine" it would be to be giving up prospect x and prospect y for Bobby Ryan or any other player for that matter.
The absolute most I see being wrung out of the Rangers is Dubinsky, Kreider, and a 2nd round pick... perhaps even a filler like Zucarello too. It wouldn't be fine to lose Kreider. It would hurt in the long run.
Giving up our youth for a player like Ryan would mean that the FO believes that throughout the next 2-3 years we'll be ready to legitimately contend for the cup. I don't think they believe that's the case, and thus, if the trade involves any of our key future prospects or players they will take themselves out of talks.
I agree with everything you said, except Del Zotto is not "our only decent puck-moving defenseman." Our entire top4 are good puck movers. Staal,Girardi, McDonagh,Sauer are all good puck movers. Erixon is a good puck mover. Hes just not entirely NHL ready yet, but he will be, and soon IMO. The only defensemen on this team who are not good puck movers are Woywitka and Eminger.
MDZ played A TON of minutes against Pitt. Showcase?
You don't play a guy a ton of minutes against the most dangerous team in the league to showcase him. You play him because you trust him. MDZ isn't going anywhere. I doubt the Rangers touch their young defense.
I'm not sure what Anaheim's strategy is in trading Ryan. Is he a bad guy in the room? If so, no thanks. Cut payroll? That probably means Anisimov instead of Dubinsky as the centerpiece going the other way. 1st of many to go? Well, that means draft picks and prospects going back and salary only to baalnce out this year.
Anisimov, one of the three first rounders in the system and a lesser prospect (MZA?)plus a 2nd might just be enough to get it done.
Stepan not going anywhere unless a guy names stamkos is in the deal, step is our future #1 center.
Ryan is a fantastic top line power winger. I will easily move Stepan for him. I don't know why anyone wouldn't. Would I PREFER to move other players? Absolutely. If Stepan is the dealbreaker, throw him in there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze
I don't like our Center depth if we lost Stepan.... AA is solid defensively but he's too inconsistent offensively..... Step is a gamer and the type of player who will deliver in big-game situations... I think we need to hold onto him....
I think our depth would be fine. You could slot Dubinsky back over.
Ryan's good but hes not in the elite level and that's the only way im trading stepan.
So yes, for ryan, he is untouchable.
Ryan isn't even as good as M. Richards imo and that deal didn't bring a player close to Stepan.
Anisimov i could see going the other way, but Stepan is a HUGE part of our future. So unless were getting a Stamkos type player back in a packaged deal, he's not going anywhere.
If we make this trade, Dubi or Anisimov are going to be the main piece, and hopefully the latter. Stepan is going to be a special, special player. He makes plays that only the truly elite players make. If he can play this way consistently, which is part of the experience / maturation process, he's going to be an elite playmaker.
If I HAD to make a deal for Ryan, I'd give up BOTH Anisimov and Dubinsky plus DZ and picks before I give up Stepan straight up. And I LOVE Dubinsky and don't want him traded at all. I'd rather not make the deal than lose Dubinsky. But Stepan is just on another level. If you think Stepan is in the same realm as Dubi and Anisimov, you haven't been paying attention. He thinks the game on a level that few players in this league do, and he's shown amazing chemistry with our best goal scorer.
Ryan is a fantastic top line power winger. I will easily move Stepan for him. I don't know why anyone wouldn't. Would I PREFER to move other players? Absolutely. If Stepan is the dealbreaker, throw him in there.
I think our depth would be fine. You could slot Dubinsky back over.
Stepan will be worth just as much if not more than Ryan in the future.
Ryan's good but hes not in the elite level and that's the only way im trading stepan.
So yes, for ryan, he is untouchable.
Ryan isn't even as good as M. Richards imo and that deal didn't bring a player close to Stepan.
Anisimov i could see going the other way, but Stepan is a HUGE part of our future. So unless were getting a Stamkos type player back in a packaged deal, he's not going anywhere.
I would take Ryan over Mike Richards pretty easily.
And Schenn isn't "a player close to Stepan"? Holy overrating, Batman! Schenn is a HUGE prospect.
I love Stepan. I've loved him since we drafted him. But you move him for Ryan if he's the dealbreaker (say if they want him over AA). You just don't hold out like that. He's a 24 year old power winger who is a lock for 30+ goals per year. You don't pass that up.
