HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Proposal Thread 2.0 - Never Trust A Man With Two First Names Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-30-2011, 06:29 PM
  #176
Machinehead
Moderator
Mochonohod
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 44,002
vCash: 50
To be fair Bobby Ryan is no 80-90 point player either. He'll have the goals yes, but he's not that good of a passer.

Machinehead is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:30 PM
  #177
BroadwayBlues
oxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
 
BroadwayBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 8,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
the question is...can we still get Parise in the offseason

/greedy


hypothetically if you could do Dubinsky, erixon, mza, CT, a first, blah blah blah for Ryan then somehow get Parise in with a magic wand...could you imagine this club next season...

Ryan - Stepan - Gaborik
Parise - Richards - Callahan
Kreider - Anisimov - Hagelin
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Staal - Sauer
MCD - Girardi
MDZ - Eminger

Henrik
Biron


excuse me, i have to change my pants.
Don't push it.

BroadwayBlues is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:30 PM
  #178
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,462
vCash: 500
3 minutes ago . . .

Quote:
JohnBorukCSN John Boruk
A source close to the situation tells me a Bobby Ryan trade is imminent. Talks have been ongoing for weeks. I'll have a blog up soon.
1 minute ago . . .

Quote:
JohnBorukCSN John Boruk
#Flyers not involved. #Rangers appear to be front runners. A deal "could" be completed by the end of the week. TB showing interest.
Work your magic, Slats!

EDIT: Boruk works for CSN Philly, for the record.

azrok22 is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:31 PM
  #179
ECL
Very slippery slope
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle America
Country: United States
Posts: 79,084
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
To be fair Bobby Ryan is no 80-90 point player either. He'll have the goals yes, but he's not that good of a passer.
There's nothing to say that Ryan won't touch 80 points. He's already hit 71 before and is not at his peak, yet. I'd be pretty damn surprised if he's not touching 80 points during his peak years.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
I still think there should be a section of people at MSG behind the visiting bench, in curly wigs, and dark rimmed glasses, calling themselves the Pidtophiles. - Zamboner
ECL is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:31 PM
  #180
SauceCheese91
Registered User
 
SauceCheese91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Look, kid. I know you've been around here for a year now and think you know everything. But I've had a very, very good track record when it comes to American players over the years. I understand that you would have absolutely no clue as to anything about that (mainly because I no longer post my top Americans list nor have any real chance to analyze more than a few players a year compared to what I used to).

Posts like this are highly annoying. The obnoxiousness that oozes from your post is infuriating. Must be nice to post on the board for a year or two and think you know everything about everyone!

I highly doubt he is the only way who thinks this about you dude. I actually enjoy and respect reading your posts, but there is no need to be a huge D-bag with how you post. Make your comment and leave it at that, no need to be so arrogant

SauceCheese91 is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:32 PM
  #181
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,672
vCash: 500
**** just got real.

jas is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:32 PM
  #182
Zuccarello Awesome*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
And you've yet to offer up anything.

Stepan has never projected to be an 80 point 1st line center. Ever. His draft year, he was seen as a 60 point guy at his top end. Solid 2nd line center. He pretty much developed as I expected through college and looks to have a little bit of a better top end potential.

Think only about 5-10 points, but 5-10 points over 60 points is a massive difference (something you and others have some insane problem realizing).

He just does not have the skating and shot to be more than a 1st/2nd line tweener type. There's nothing wrong with that, but players do have a limit. He does not have unlimited potential (no matter what crap you'll surely try and peddle).

Having watched a kid develop like I have, I think I am certainly qualified to say how I think he'll continue to develop. The more you watch a player, the more you can analyze just how much better they get at each step. It's a huge advantage having watched someone play HS hockey. I wish I could focus on stuff like that now (zero time). You get a real connection with a player when you can follow them from the ground up like that.

Stepan has done nothing this year that leads me to believe he has higher potential than a 65-70 point center. He's progressing just as he should and has not made some massive leap that he wasn't expected to. The big difference we should begin to see is him getting more confident with his passing and shooting the puck less. His goals should plateau around 25 goals max, since he'll simply be passing more and have less chances to shoot the puck.

His ideal season is probably going to be about 20-25 goals matching up with 40-45 assists. Would love to see him hit a nice peak of 25/45 (which is 70 points).
Look. I've been here for 3-4 years, and anyone who's been here for a month can see how arrogant your posts are. It's unnecessary for someone with your degree of knowledge to be so petty.

Here's the thing. You DO have a great knowledge of the game, but the problem is that instead of "saying how you think he will continue to develop" like you are qualified to do, you attempt to pass it off as indisputable fact, because you've been watching him longer than anyone else! You're the obnoxious one. You don't get that? We all appreciate your insight and you contribute a ton to this community, most of it productive and thought-provoking. But you ruin a lot of it with petty claims and an arrogant tone. If you could lose that side of it, you'd probably be my favorite poster on here in terms of thoughtful analysis and accurate assessment of the team and the players.

State your opinions as...your opinions, rather than as facts and you'll provoke a lot more quality DISCUSSION around here, rather than making people want to respond in a bitter tone because they're focused on your demeanor rather than the content of your post, which is almost always top notch.

Zuccarello Awesome* is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:32 PM
  #183
ECL
Very slippery slope
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle America
Country: United States
Posts: 79,084
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by SauceCheese91 View Post
I highly doubt he is the only way who thinks this about you dude. I actually enjoy and respect reading your posts, but there is no need to be a huge D-bag with how you post. Make your comment and leave it at that, no need to be so arrogant
No offense, but do you think I actually care about what anyone thinks about me? When have I ever offered any indication that I care?

ECL is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:32 PM
  #184
SauceCheese91
Registered User
 
SauceCheese91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
3 minutes ago . . .



1 minute ago . . .



Work your magic, Slats!

EDIT: Boruk works for CSN Philly, for the record.
*gets massive ******

SauceCheese91 is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:33 PM
  #185
BroadwayBlues
oxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
 
BroadwayBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 8,765
vCash: 500
I my god I can't breath.

BroadwayBlues is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:33 PM
  #186
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,274
vCash: 500
I'd really like Ryan but I think you gotta move Dubinsky if it's between him an AA. Yes I'm an AA homer but honestly I think he's the safest player to keep. He could really take off this year and I'd hate to see him do it anywhere but NY.

Barbara Underhill is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:33 PM
  #187
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,619
vCash: 500
ROFL Rangers just get anybody they want. It's hysterical. Really hope this is true, I'd kill for Bobby Ryan.

__________________
http://hfboards.com/image.php?u=53946&type=sigpic&dateline=1320361610
NYRFAN218 is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:34 PM
  #188
SauceCheese91
Registered User
 
SauceCheese91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 372
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
No offense, but do you think I actually care about what anyone thinks about me? When have I ever offered any indication that I care?
I can clearly tell that you dont give a what, I am just making sure you understand that most people think your a dick. Not sure what your problem is, but carry on.

SauceCheese91 is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:34 PM
  #189
ECL
Very slippery slope
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle America
Country: United States
Posts: 79,084
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
Look. I've been here for 3-4 years, and anyone who's been here for a month can see how arrogant your posts are. It's unnecessary for someone with your degree of knowledge to be so petty.

Here's the thing. You DO have a great knowledge of the game, but the problem is that instead of "saying how you think he will continue to develop" like you are qualified to do, you attempt to pass it off as indisputable fact, because you've been watching him longer than anyone else! You're the obnoxious one. You don't get that? We all appreciate your insight and you contribute a ton to this community, most of it productive and thought-provoking. But you ruin a lot of it with petty claims and an arrogant tone. If you could lose that side of it, you'd probably be my favorite poster on here in terms of thoughtful analysis and accurate assessment of the team and the players.
So, instead of commenting back on ALL of the insight and analysis I just gave you (when I could have just blasted you back without it), you just ignore it all and offer nothing.

Re-read my post. Reply on the merits.

I don't think you have any IDEA about the difference in caliber between a 65 point player and an 80 point player.

ECL is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:34 PM
  #190
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,531
vCash: 500
I know we all LOVE our Rangers players. Its very easy to become attached, but when there is an upgrade available, it has to be seriously considered because the Rangers have too much depth as it is coming through the system in the next few years. Trading 3-4 players/pieces for 1 is okay as long as you have the depth to replace them.

The Rangers have been trying to get to this point for years. They knew they would never be able to tank and draft in the top-5 in NYC so they went the route of amassing depth. With that depth, they have the ability of packaging some players in order to acquire high-end talent or turning over key spots in the line-up and keeping those spots locked in their ELC's so as to be able to sign UFA's.

Again, this doesn't necessarily have to be Bobby Ryan. However, the Rangers will make a move eventually for another high-end player where they will deal some redundant parts who they feel they can replace from within for cheaper. The main argument should be who the Rangers feel they want to hang onto and who they feel they COULD move if a deal presents itself.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:35 PM
  #191
nyranger61494
YNWA
 
nyranger61494's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
3 minutes ago . . .



1 minute ago . . .



Work your magic, Slats!

EDIT: Boruk works for CSN Philly, for the record.
How reliable is Boruk with stuff like this? Not every reporter has great pipeline of sources. Just trying to maintain my sanity after thinking about this pretty much all day...

nyranger61494 is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:36 PM
  #192
ECL
Very slippery slope
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle America
Country: United States
Posts: 79,084
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by SauceCheese91 View Post
I can clearly tell that you dont give a what, I am just making sure you understand that most people think your a dick. Not sure what your problem is, but carry on.
I have no problem. I get agitated when someone who's posted on here for a day starts acting like they know everything I've posted, know my beliefs, and only strive to knock me. If this was, say, jas arguing with me? He'd never get said attitude. I used to go tooth and nail with Sting, too. He's more than past the point where I'd get pissed off if he baselessly disagreed with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I'd really like Ryan but I think you gotta move Dubinsky if it's between him an AA. Yes I'm an AA homer but honestly I think he's the safest player to keep. He could really take off this year and I'd hate to see him do it anywhere but NY.
If we trade for Ryan I really hope we can do it with Dubinsky and prospects. That would be a coup.

ECL is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:36 PM
  #193
NYRSchrute217
Registered User
 
NYRSchrute217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,575
vCash: 500
darenmillard Daren Millard
Report from @JohnBorukCSN saying bobby ryan trade is imminent. Could be an interesting night. Ducks play @ 10 et.
41 seconds ago

Oh boy...Staying glued to the computer tonight. Feels like July 1st all over again hahaha

NYRSchrute217 is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:37 PM
  #194
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
3 minutes ago . . .



1 minute ago . . .



Work your magic, Slats!

EDIT: Boruk works for CSN Philly, for the record.
Interesting. Trying VERY hard not to get my hopes up.

NYR Viper is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:38 PM
  #195
MSG the place to be*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,783
vCash: 500
Why would anybody need to watch Stepan in high school, college, or the NHL to evaluate him when you can just look at his point totals at each level

MSG the place to be* is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:38 PM
  #196
ECL
Very slippery slope
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle America
Country: United States
Posts: 79,084
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I know we all LOVE our Rangers players. Its very easy to become attached, but when there is an upgrade available, it has to be seriously considered because the Rangers have too much depth as it is coming through the system in the next few years. Trading 3-4 players/pieces for 1 is okay as long as you have the depth to replace them.
Bingo. We have a 3-6 year window to win a Cup. If we have to sacrifice a really great prospect or young player to do it? You have to do it. I would trade 15 Tony Amontes in 1994 for one Cup. I would never risk the possibility of winning 2 Cups and keeping the 15 Amontes when I could have one damn near guaranteed one.

The end result is this team's goal is to win the Cup. It's not to have a really great young team and do nothing with it (while Lundqvist, Richards and Gaborik age).

ECL is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:39 PM
  #197
Machinehead
Moderator
Mochonohod
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 44,002
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
There's nothing to say that Ryan won't touch 80 points. He's already hit 71 before and is not at his peak, yet. I'd be pretty damn surprised if he's not touching 80 points during his peak years.
Yeah I could see him scoring 40 goals. Where's he getting the other 40 from?

Machinehead is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:39 PM
  #198
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 8,742
vCash: 500
I'm not looking at Stepan as untouchable because he's going to post up crazy points.

His value comes with the chances he generates. He is great at setting up other players. His passes are usually on target and easy to handle/one time. You can't teach that in a player. You either have that ability, or you don't.

He doesn't get nervous with the puck. He doesn't have tunnel vision. And he compliments Gaborik very well.

I don't think he's an 80 point scorer. That's crazy. Right now, he's on pace for what? 50-55?

For his role, I find that great. He knows his role on the team, maybe with more time on the power play and more experience, and maybe another sniper on his line, he can get somewhere near 65 points a season. But he's a great team player, and more importantly a great puck distributor and chance generator.

I see Bobby Ryan as a max 40-42 goal scorer, adding roughly 35-40 assists as well. He actually does have a chance at 80 points, although I don't see him coming close to 90 or 100 ever. Maybe 90 once or twice... but that's a stretch. Adding him would be ideal, especially for the identity we're trying to build. I just ask myself, for the Ducks, they're a perennial playoff team. Why trade him, with all his credentials and assets (age, cap hit, skill, familiarity within the system, chemistry with players on the team) unless something was wrong.

In addition, yes he is a rare talent, but does the FO want to part ways with several key parts of our future for him? He'd obviously become part of the future, hopefully, but the question is does the youth we give up potentially produce more than adding Ryan?

If Dubi is the first piece, and Kreider/Erixon/McIlrath, and a 2nd, is the rest of the trade, then that is more than fair. It'll hurt to lose one of hte top prospects, but you do have to give to get. Not saying that Glen will be fine with doing that, it just seems like a balanced trade for both teams.

But if they start asking for Anisimov, Sauer, Kreider, and a 1st... well then they can keep Bobby Ryan.

Rust Heisenberg is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:39 PM
  #199
ECL
Very slippery slope
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Middle America
Country: United States
Posts: 79,084
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Why would anybody need to watch Stepan in high school, college, or the NHL to evaluate him when you can just look at his point totals at each level
Erm, because point totals tell nothing of the whole story.

If you looked at his point totals from last year, you'd think he is an equal scorer as he is playmaker. In reality, he was nervous in his role as a playmaker last year and shot the puck more. As his career moves on, his goal totals will stay right around the 20-25 range while his assists will start to climb.

ECL is offline  
Old
11-30-2011, 06:40 PM
  #200
Zuccarello Awesome*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
So, instead of commenting back on ALL of the insight and analysis I just gave you (when I could have just blasted you back without it), you just ignore it all and offer nothing.

Re-read my post. Reply on the merits.

I don't think you have any IDEA about the difference in caliber between a 65 point player and an 80 point player.
I didn't respond because I actually already covered my opinion on that in an earlier post in this thread. The way I see it, the thing separating Stepan from the elite playmakers in the NHL is consistency. And like I said, that's a natural part of the maturing process and usually increases naturally with experience. Now, will Stepan reach a level of consistency where he's making 3-4 of those amazing plays per game and one or two get converted into goals, this giving up 80-90 points? I don't know, but with his skillset and the way he sees the game, I certainly think that potential is there.

He may end up peaking as a 65 point player, or he may find that every night, every shift consistency and turn into a truly elite playmaker. I don't KNOW the answer, but I certainly don't think anyone can say he WON'T become that player at this point, 90 something games into his career, where he's just starting to get comfortable and showing great patience and vision with the puck and the ability to create chances out of nothing when he has the puck. He makes the same passes that the elite playmakers like Henrik Sedin, St. Louis, etc make. The difference right now is that they have proven that they can make them multiple times every night. Stepans been doing it every night for about 15 games, but he'll obviously need to do it for at least a full season before we can make any definitive claims. The ability IS there. Consistency is the key.


Last edited by Zuccarello Awesome*: 11-30-2011 at 06:48 PM.
Zuccarello Awesome* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.