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2012 AHL "Steeltown Showdown" aka Outdoor Classic, GTA 1/21

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Old
01-05-2012, 02:01 PM
  #51
Melrose Munch
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10440 tickets sold.. warmer weather for the next little while may help ticket sales but wont help ice.. good thing Bulldogs are used to playing on a sub par ice surface..

12000 tickets sold still looks about right.. thats not going to make a lot of people happy
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For a sporting event in Hamilton, can't say I'm surprised.
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Tickets are already available for WAY below face value on the secondary market. Good luck getting anybody to spend $100 for a nosebleed when they can get in the door for $25 and have their choice of seats.

This is the risk you run with huge venues... better be really sure you can fill 'em or the tickets lose all value.
So Hamilton will only show up for the NHL. But Toronto wants the NFL or UBC wants to join the Pac 12 and its war.

The Bills in Toronto series drew 51k which is about 92% percent capacity. 10,400 of nearly 30,000 is just over 33% capacity.

People in this city need to stand up/

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01-05-2012, 02:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
So Hamilton will only show up for the NHL. But Toronto wants the NFL or UBC wants to join the Pac 12 and its war.

The Bills in Toronto series drew 51k which is about 92% percent capacity. 10,400 of nearly 30,000 is just over 33% capacity.

People in this city need to stand up/
Stand up to/for what?

What will paying ridiculous prices to fill a stadium to watch crappy AHL hockey do for this city? Is it supposed to get us closer to an NHL team?

And although I think Toronto could easily support their own NFL team, there were massive amounts of tickets given away for the Bills in Toronto series.

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01-05-2012, 09:36 PM
  #53
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Did the organizers of this event not take into consideration Hamilton's apathy towards the AHL product? Did they think they would spend $100 to sit outside in the cold to watch an AHL product. Given the city's recent "support" of big events including the 1996 Grey Cup and 2010 Brier, they should have known better and not bothered at all.

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01-05-2012, 09:45 PM
  #54
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Did the organizers of this event not take into consideration Hamilton's apathy towards the AHL product? Did they think they would spend $100 to sit outside in the cold to watch an AHL product. Given the city's recent "support" of big events including the 1996 Grey Cup and 2010 Brier, they should have known better and not bothered at all.
And they pick the Marlies to play against who equally struggle.

I myself bought 5 tickets at 20 each.. I might have went as high as 40per but 100?!?! No way I'm spending 500 for AHL..

Also, there is very little advertising for this event that I've seen or heard.. Not very well organized IMO

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01-05-2012, 10:05 PM
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Stand up to/for what?

What will paying ridiculous prices to fill a stadium to watch crappy AHL hockey do for this city? Is it supposed to get us closer to an NHL team?

And although I think Toronto could easily support their own NFL team, there were massive amounts of tickets given away for the Bills in Toronto series.
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
Did the organizers of this event not take into consideration Hamilton's apathy towards the AHL product? Did they think they would spend $100 to sit outside in the cold to watch an AHL product. Given the city's recent "support" of big events including the 1996 Grey Cup and 2010 Brier, they should have known better and not bothered at all.
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And they pick the Marlies to play against who equally struggle.

I myself bought 5 tickets at 20 each.. I might have went as high as 40per but 100?!?! No way I'm spending 500 for AHL..

Also, there is very little advertising for this event that I've seen or heard.. Not very well organized IMO
Winnipeg did it. It worked for them. Us, and not Winnipeg should have gotten Atlanta on paper. Bigger everything. Bigger Market, More Corporate support, more everything. But we didn't. That tells me we have to play by their rules now.

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01-05-2012, 10:35 PM
  #56
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Winnipeg did it. It worked for them. Us, and not Winnipeg should have gotten Atlanta on paper. Bigger everything. Bigger Market, More Corporate support, more everything. But we didn't. That tells me we have to play by their rules now.
to be honest im not sure i get what you are saying. they didnt get their team because they supported AHL

Leafs make the rules round here MM

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01-05-2012, 10:40 PM
  #57
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How people really see Hamilton as a hockey market is beyond me. They don't even come close to supporting the AHL even comparable to how Winnipeg did it. They don't get excited about big events like the Brier, or even this outdoor game.

It's a blue-collar, relatively poor city with not a whole lot of disposable income.

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01-05-2012, 10:42 PM
  #58
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to be honest im not sure i get what you are saying. they didnt get their team because they supported AHL

Leafs make the rules round here MM
The Leafs do not have total veto. All it take is 16 of 30 teams plus a defined amount of money.

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How people really see Hamilton as a hockey market is beyond me. They don't even come close to supporting the AHL even comparable to how Winnipeg did it. They don't get excited about big events like the Brier, or even this outdoor game.

It's a blue-collar, relatively poor city with not a whole lot of disposable income.
Hamilton is a great NHL market. Big Difference.

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01-05-2012, 10:50 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
How people really see Hamilton as a hockey market is beyond me. They don't even come close to supporting the AHL even comparable to how Winnipeg did it. They don't get excited about big events like the Brier, or even this outdoor game.

It's a blue-collar, relatively poor city with not a whole lot of disposable income.
not many places support ahl like Peggers. whats your point.besides its the ahl and Hamiltons around league average, i think.

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01-05-2012, 10:59 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Winnipeg did it. It worked for them. Us, and not Winnipeg should have gotten Atlanta on paper. Bigger everything. Bigger Market, More Corporate support, more everything. But we didn't. That tells me we have to play by their rules now.
Winnipeg showed they support hockey, led the AHL in attendance, NHL took notice and Winnipeg was the first choice for relocation. Sold out the arena for the Jets for 5 years in under 30 minutes and are a huge success.


Winnipeg sold out a 29K CFL stadium for years, showed that fan support warranted a modern stadium and are now getting a new $200 million 34K CFL stadium.


Winnipeg has supported an independent minor league baseball team for 15 years, built a new ball park for the team and have since added extra seating twice, average between 7-9K per game and usually lead the league in attendance.


Hamilton has proven no love for the AHL, average under 5K a game for years can barely support a CFL team in a decrepit stadium, can't figure out whether they want a new stadium or even where to put it even when the govt. will pay for most of it, yeah Hamilton is a great sports town.

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01-05-2012, 11:02 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
How people really see Hamilton as a hockey market is beyond me. They don't even come close to supporting the AHL even comparable to how Winnipeg did it. They don't get excited about big events like the Brier, or even this outdoor game.

It's a blue-collar, relatively poor city with not a whole lot of disposable income.
Hamilton supports the NHL. It'll even supports the World Cup and World Juniors.

It won't support a crappy product like the AHL.

And if you're going to judge a market by their AHL attendance, then how do you explain the Leafs support while the Marlies have the same basic attendance as Hamilton? Amazing that a city the size of Toronto can't get more than 3,000 people to attend their own professional teams' farm team. THAT is incredible. But they support the Leafs pretty well, right?

The problem with Hamilton is it's location and size make the people want something better than the minor leagues. We're close enough to Toronto, Buffalo and Detroit - we can see NHL, NFL, NBA and MLB games between those cities. Look at how many from the area go to Sabres and Bills games and even the World Juniors in Buffalo last year. They have no desire to spend money on a crappy product - not gonna happen.

And the idea of "if we support an AHL team, it improves our chances at an NHL team" is nonsense. Sorry, we've jumped through hoops for an NHL team for over 30 years and it hasn't come - it isn't going to happen by supporting an AHL team. The majority of Hamiltonians have lost hope on it ever happening.

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01-05-2012, 11:05 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Winnipeg showed they support hockey, led the AHL in attendance, NHL took notice and Winnipeg was the first choice for relocation. Sold out the arena for the Jets for 5 years in under 30 minutes and are a huge success.
Give Hamilton a team and you can bet they'll do the same but won't even need 30 minutes to sell out 5 years worth of tickets.

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01-05-2012, 11:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Winnipeg showed they support hockey, led the AHL in attendance, NHL took notice and Winnipeg was the first choice for relocation. Sold out the arena for the Jets for 5 years in under 30 minutes and are a huge success.


Winnipeg sold out a 29K CFL stadium for years, showed that fan support warranted a modern stadium and are now getting a new $200 million 34K CFL stadium.


Winnipeg has supported an independent minor league baseball team for 15 years, built a new ball park for the team and have since added extra seating twice, average between 7-9K per game and usually lead the league in attendance.


Hamilton has proven no love for the AHL, average under 5K a game for years can barely support a CFL team in a decrepit stadium, can't figure out whether they want a new stadium or even where to put it even when the govt. will pay for most of it, yeah Hamilton is a great sports town.
are yah sure about the bummers selling out for years.. this year was impressive mind you.Cats have some issues one being stadium for sure other being very high ticket prices our single game platinums were a few dollars cheaper than MTLs ..

Winnipeg is a great hockey town..

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01-05-2012, 11:38 PM
  #64
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Hamilton supports the NHL. It'll even supports the World Cup and World Juniors.

.
set attendance records as well for those tourneys i may add ..not to mention we held a few ahl attendance records as well but no point bringing that up.. lol

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01-06-2012, 12:18 AM
  #65
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are yah sure about the bummers selling out for years.. this year was impressive mind you.Cats have some issues one being stadium for sure other being very high ticket prices our single game platinums were a few dollars cheaper than MTLs ..

Winnipeg is a great hockey town..
Didn't mean to come out that hard on Hamilton and yeah your city could support an NHL no problem just didn't like the comment: "Hamilton should have got the Thrashers first over Winnipeg" by another guy in here.

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01-06-2012, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Winnipeg showed they support hockey, led the AHL in attendance, NHL took notice and Winnipeg was the first choice for relocation. Sold out the arena for the Jets for 5 years in under 30 minutes and are a huge success.


Winnipeg sold out a 29K CFL stadium for years, showed that fan support warranted a modern stadium and are now getting a new $200 million 34K CFL stadium.


Winnipeg has supported an independent minor league baseball team for 15 years, built a new ball park for the team and have since added extra seating twice, average between 7-9K per game and usually lead the league in attendance.


Hamilton has proven no love for the AHL, average under 5K a game for years can barely support a CFL team in a decrepit stadium, can't figure out whether they want a new stadium or even where to put it even when the govt. will pay for most of it, yeah Hamilton is a great sports town.
False.....

A) REMEMBER the Oilers had the franchise in Hamilton before being duped by Abraham in that Road Runners fiasco that led the Oilers affiliate being barred from Ricoh Coliseum the year of the lockout, sipowicz.

B) HAD The Moose (now Ice Caps) not been forced out by the return of the Wild to Minnesota, that's when the Original Jets flew to AZ, HAD TNSE not bought the Moose when it did, it is unlikely MTS Centre has a tenant it controls and the Moose would be a footnote in hockey history, otherwise terminated out of existence.

C) had Montreal not been run out of Quebec City, the franchise tht assumed the rights to be named the Bulldogs doesn't happen, nor does this game even exist....

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01-06-2012, 10:01 PM
  #67
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I'm just curious. Since Canadians seemingly don't like the idea of a pro minor league, how would you go about developing players not yet ready for the NHL?

- MLS-style reserve division (B teams playing either behind closed doors or for no admission charge at the practice rink or before the NHL game)?

- NFL/CFL-style "NHL straight out of juniors or bust" system

- something else

Also, why are Canadians willing to watch juniors (a developmental league as well) but not the AHL? I once got an answer of "the junior players are here the whole year, I can't bring myself to watch guys who are just playing their way out of here". Is it as simple as that? Do Canadians need to have players who are all-in for the whole season to be interested? Is it the fact that the best players skip the AHL (juniors or Europe straight to NHL)? Something else?

I'm not being derisive. I'm just curious. Here in America, top-level minor league teams in baseball (AAA) and hockey (AHL) draw quite well despite the specter of call-ups (and the lack of super-elite prospects in the AHL) while Canadians seem to recoil in horror at the mention of a farm team league. And before anybody says "those crowds are all people who don't understand the sport and don 't care" I can tell you that at least here in Ohio, the ratio of people who know what they're watching relative to those there out of sheer boredom isn't that much lower in the AAA levels than in the Major League levels.


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01-06-2012, 10:08 PM
  #68
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Why are the lower seats the cheapest?...... is the angle really going to be that bad?
I don't know how Ivor Wynne is set up, but I was at a high school hockey game at the Indians ballpark where only the lower deck was opened up. I sat as high as possible (okay, I could've been 1 row higher, but the club seat overhang obstructed part of the scoreboard in that row) at center ice and let's just say I'm glad I bought upper deck tickets for the OSU-Michigan game.

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01-06-2012, 10:16 PM
  #69
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http://www.tsn.ca/ahl/story/?id=384440

Record crowd watches

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01-06-2012, 10:35 PM
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I'm just curious. Since Canadians seemingly don't like the idea of a pro minor league, how would you go about developing players not yet ready for the NHL?
It's not that people don't like a minor pro league as a concept, they would rather place their money elsewhere on a product that isn't considered 2nd tier. It's also not like the minor pro system would disappear if all of a sudden the Canadian teams ceased to exist.

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Also, why are Canadians willing to watch juniors (a developmental league as well) but not the AHL? I once got an answer of "the junior players are here the whole year, I can't bring myself to watch guys who are just playing their way out of here". Is it as simple as that? Do Canadians need to have players who are all-in for the whole season to be interested? Is it the fact that the best players skip the AHL (juniors or Europe straight to NHL)? Something else?
The CHL pretty much represents the best junior hockey players in the world. Most of the big stars in the NHL played in the CHL. Wouldn't it be cool to see the next Sidney Crosby play junior hockey before he became a superstar? There is also the factor that the teams are actually trying to build a winner not trying to groom a player for the big leagues. Also the World Jr. Championship has also generated interest in Major Junior hockey as a whole. In the past decade, I've seen an absolute explosion in the interest in the CHL.

I'm am absolutely convinced that if the Bulldogs disappeared tomorrow and were replaced by a junior team, it would be a roaring success and the Bulldogs and their Calder Cup championship would quickly be forgotten.

I should also note that I'm actually a fan of the AHL and the Bulldogs...

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01-06-2012, 10:47 PM
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Thanks for the reply. One question: Isn't the CHL "2nd tier" (non-NHL) or is it different because the players aren't old enough yet (in most cases) to play in the NHL?

Again, serious curiousity question, not a criticism.

EDIT: Missed the part about trying to win, rather than develop, in your post on my first reading. I think that may be a big part of the difference.

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01-07-2012, 12:03 AM
  #72
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Im going with my GF to game game. for 40 bucks a ticket you cant really go wrong. The marlies have some good prospects right now and it will be fun to see them in a unique setting.

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01-07-2012, 12:14 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackets Woodchuck View Post
I'm just curious. Since Canadians seemingly don't like the idea of a pro minor league, how would you go about developing players not yet ready for the NHL?

- MLS-style reserve division (B teams playing either behind closed doors or for no admission charge at the practice rink or before the NHL game)?

- NFL/CFL-style "NHL straight out of juniors or bust" system

- something else

Also, why are Canadians willing to watch juniors (a developmental league as well) but not the AHL? I once got an answer of "the junior players are here the whole year, I can't bring myself to watch guys who are just playing their way out of here". Is it as simple as that? Do Canadians need to have players who are all-in for the whole season to be interested? Is it the fact that the best players skip the AHL (juniors or Europe straight to NHL)? Something else?

I'm not being derisive. I'm just curious. Here in America, top-level minor league teams in baseball (AAA) and hockey (AHL) draw quite well despite the specter of call-ups (and the lack of super-elite prospects in the AHL) while Canadians seem to recoil in horror at the mention of a farm team league. And before anybody says "those crowds are all people who don't understand the sport and don 't care" I can tell you that at least here in Ohio, the ratio of people who know what they're watching relative to those there out of sheer boredom isn't that much lower in the AAA levels than in the Major League levels.
Despite what some say here Canada is not a good sports country at all. This attitude you speak of varies from sport to sport.

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01-07-2012, 12:23 AM
  #74
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B) HAD The Moose (now Ice Caps) not been forced out by the return of the Wild to Minnesota, that's when the Original Jets flew to AZ, HAD TNSE not bought the Moose when it did, it is unlikely MTS Centre has a tenant it controls and the Moose would be a footnote in hockey history, otherwise terminated out of existence.
You really think a city of 750K with a history of pro hockey going back to the 1950's would have been without some form of pro team for more than a year after the Jets 1.0 left for the desert.

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01-07-2012, 12:46 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Jackets Woodchuck View Post
Thanks for the reply. One question: Isn't the CHL "2nd tier" (non-NHL) or is it different because the players aren't old enough yet (in most cases) to play in the NHL?

Again, serious curiousity question, not a criticism.

EDIT: Missed the part about trying to win, rather than develop, in your post on my first reading. I think that may be a big part of the difference.
I'm a huge CHL fan, but loathe the AHL for a few reasons.

Junior hockey is the up and coming players that quite a few of them will end up in the NHL long term. Watching the London Knights for the last 10+ years overall, I've seen so many players make it to the big league.

I went to school in Hamilton, and went to a few Bulldog games, and while the quality of the hockey was pretty good, the atmosphere and the fact it was Montreal's Farm Team made it a tough experience. Toronto/Ricoh is just too far out of the way for me, although if I did live in Toronto, I'd definitely go out and see it.

Like someone else mentioned, it's also difficult watching a team that consistently changes, and the best players likely get promoted up to the NHL if a gap or two arrives. Most players in the AHL are stuck there, and it's only because they're simply not good enough to be in the NHL, and likely the majority of them will be buried there.

Again, for me, I've had the highly successful London Knights (OHL) team to follow. They consistently sell out 9000+ seats per game, have had an excellent on-ice record, and have always been a fun team to watch. I did move to BC for a bit, and got involved with the former WHL franchise Chilliwack Bruins (now in Victoria), but still, it was junior hockey, and as a Leaf fan, I didn't have too much interest in watching Calgary play down the road in Abbotsford, although I would easily prefer them to Vancouver's farm team for example, I would only go when the Marlies came to town.

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