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2012 AHL "Steeltown Showdown" aka Outdoor Classic, GTA 1/21

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Old
01-07-2012, 02:29 AM
  #76
Jackets Woodchuck
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
I'm a huge CHL fan, but loathe the AHL for a few reasons.

Junior hockey is the up and coming players that quite a few of them will end up in the NHL long term. Watching the London Knights for the last 10+ years overall, I've seen so many players make it to the big league.

I went to school in Hamilton, and went to a few Bulldog games, and while the quality of the hockey was pretty good, the atmosphere and the fact it was Montreal's Farm Team made it a tough experience. Toronto/Ricoh is just too far out of the way for me, although if I did live in Toronto, I'd definitely go out and see it.

Like someone else mentioned, it's also difficult watching a team that consistently changes, and the best players likely get promoted up to the NHL if a gap or two arrives. Most players in the AHL are stuck there, and it's only because they're simply not good enough to be in the NHL, and likely the majority of them will be buried there.

Again, for me, I've had the highly successful London Knights (OHL) team to follow. They consistently sell out 9000+ seats per game, have had an excellent on-ice record, and have always been a fun team to watch. I did move to BC for a bit, and got involved with the former WHL franchise Chilliwack Bruins (now in Victoria), but still, it was junior hockey, and as a Leaf fan, I didn't have too much interest in watching Calgary play down the road in Abbotsford, although I would easily prefer them to Vancouver's farm team for example, I would only go when the Marlies came to town.
Thanks. This is what I was looking for in a nutshell.

I have a misconception to clear up, a couple of observations, and a follow-up question:

Misconception: That you can't see future stars in the AHL. Between the IHL and AHL in Cleveland, I have seen at least 3 future NHL All-stars (Martin St. Louis, Evgeni Nabokov, Mikka Kiprusoff). I'm sure I'll run across more (especially among visiting team players) after I have a chance to look back through my program collection.

On to the observations...

- As to why the call-ups issue is more sensitive in Canada than the US: I think it has to do with Americans being used to it from minor league baseball (which, while it has a presence in Canada, has historically been a bigger presence in the US than in Canada).

- Is it just me or is the distribution of farm teams to their parent clubs (whose fans may actually be interested in seeing their up and coming prospects) horribly screwed up? The Habs in the GTA (or close enough to it), The Flames in suburban Vancouver (or at least close to it), and the Jets all the way over in the Atlantic Provinces. The only team positioned anywhere close to their parent club is the Marlies (Maple Leafs), who are too close and suffer the usual issues of being a secondary team in a market. Maybe it would work better with the Marlies (or a Leafs-affiliated Bulldogs) in Hamilton.

Finally the question:

What do you mean by "atmosphere"? If it's what I think it is (the carnival atmosphere so suffocating that you can barely focus on the game), then i know the reason why it doesn't bother US hockey fans: We're subjected to it in the NHL!! Seriously, I'm used to NBA intro videos (long and tedious by league-mandated template) but I still find the Blue Jackets intro videos interminable.

Sorry for the lengthy rant. Just a great reply from you and it got me thinking on a variety of issues.

By the way, good luck with the new Leafs ownership. Anybody has to be better than the OTPP running the team via spreadsheet.

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01-07-2012, 10:54 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jackets Woodchuck View Post
Thanks. This is what I was looking for in a nutshell.

I have a misconception to clear up, a couple of observations, and a follow-up question:

Misconception: That you can't see future stars in the AHL. Between the IHL and AHL in Cleveland, I have seen at least 3 future NHL All-stars (Martin St. Louis, Evgeni Nabokov, Mikka Kiprusoff). I'm sure I'll run across more (especially among visiting team players) after I have a chance to look back through my program collection.

On to the observations...

- As to why the call-ups issue is more sensitive in Canada than the US: I think it has to do with Americans being used to it from minor league baseball (which, while it has a presence in Canada, has historically been a bigger presence in the US than in Canada).

- Is it just me or is the distribution of farm teams to their parent clubs (whose fans may actually be interested in seeing their up and coming prospects) horribly screwed up? The Habs in the GTA (or close enough to it), The Flames in suburban Vancouver (or at least close to it), and the Jets all the way over in the Atlantic Provinces. The only team positioned anywhere close to their parent club is the Marlies (Maple Leafs), who are too close and suffer the usual issues of being a secondary team in a market. Maybe it would work better with the Marlies (or a Leafs-affiliated Bulldogs) in Hamilton.
I will agree with you on all points there, but there are some reasons for that.

The City of Abbotsford gave the Calgary Flames organization a deal that the Heat couldn't resist, and the City fully regrets giving the team that deal now. If you didn't know, the City subsidizes all monetary losses for the team, so they always break even, and the losses annually are usually over 1 million dollars.

The Leafs would rather have the Marlies on a nearby on-demand basis for easy callups rather than sell tickets, although lately they are doing better with putting butts in seats, it isn't their #1 priority. If it were, the Marlies would still be out in St. John's Newfoundland - which BTW is an excellent AHL market.

I completely agree that if the Canadiens decide to move the Bulldogs closer to Montreal, Toronto could or should look at relocating to Hamilton. Instantly, that team will become more popular in the area, higher attendances and better fanbase as Hamilton is a part of Leaf Nation. However, as seen with the St. John's to Toronto move of the Marlies, having a large fanbase and great attendance with the farm team isn't as big of a priority, so I could see MLSE nixing that idea even if Copps Coliseum in Hamilton became available.
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Originally Posted by Jackets Woodchuck View Post

Finally the question:

What do you mean by "atmosphere"? If it's what I think it is (the carnival atmosphere so suffocating that you can barely focus on the game), then i know the reason why it doesn't bother US hockey fans: We're subjected to it in the NHL!! Seriously, I'm used to NBA intro videos (long and tedious by league-mandated template) but I still find the Blue Jackets intro videos interminable.
I have been to about a dozen Bulldog games in Hamilton, and one in Abbotsford. If you haven't been to Hamilton, or Copps Coliseum, the arena seats 17000+. Even with the upper bowl curtained off - the rink still has a capacity of probably close to 8000. Now, go to games where there is 2500 to 3000 people in the stands. For me, part of the game experience is being in a large crowd with a great loud atmsophere. That rarely exists in Hamilton, when I can go to my hometown about an hour and a half away and get 9000 fans in a 9000 seat area with the juniors.

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01-07-2012, 12:26 PM
  #78
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I completely agree that if the Canadiens decide to move the Bulldogs closer to Montreal, Toronto could or should look at relocating to Hamilton. Instantly, that team will become more popular in the area, higher attendances and better fanbase as Hamilton is a part of Leaf Nation. However, as seen with the St. John's to Toronto move of the Marlies, having a large fanbase and great attendance with the farm team isn't as big of a priority, so I could see MLSE nixing that idea even if Copps Coliseum in Hamilton became available.
I think the only way that the Leafs would move the Marlies to Hamilton is if they got control over Copps as pat of the deal.

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01-07-2012, 01:17 PM
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False.....
B) HAD The Moose (now Ice Caps) not been forced out by the return of the Wild to Minnesota, that's when the Original Jets flew to AZ, HAD TNSE not bought the Moose when it did, it is unlikely MTS Centre has a tenant it controls and the Moose would be a footnote in hockey history, otherwise terminated out of existence.
The Moose moved to Winnipeg in 1996. Minnesota was not awarded an expansion franchise (The Wild) until a year later and they began play in 2000.

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01-07-2012, 01:56 PM
  #80
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Bottom line the people of Hamilton think they are better then the AHL when they have poor support for the CFL. Myself included. Take that as you wish but it's pretty sad.

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01-07-2012, 03:03 PM
  #81
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Bottom line the people of Hamilton think they are better then the AHL when they have poor support for the CFL. Myself included. Take that as you wish but it's pretty sad.
We're a spitting image of Toronto arent we?

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01-07-2012, 03:21 PM
  #82
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I think the only way that the Leafs would move the Marlies to Hamilton is if they got control over Copps as pat of the deal.
Hmmmm.. MLSE buying and renovating Copps could be a strategic viewpoint where MLSE would have a monopoly on the arena, and could ensure that the NHL would never come to Hamilton...

It's an interesting scenario if you think about it...

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01-07-2012, 04:03 PM
  #83
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We're a spitting image of Toronto arent we?
Southern Ontario really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
Hmmmm.. MLSE buying and renovating Copps could be a strategic viewpoint where MLSE would have a monopoly on the arena, and could ensure that the NHL would never come to Hamilton...

It's an interesting scenario if you think about it...
Do the Bulldogs go to Saskatoon? I think that would end Hamilton in the NHL even more so then now. I would think Bratina would fight that to the core.

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01-08-2012, 07:45 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post

The Bills in Toronto series drew 51k which is about 92% percent capacity. 10,400 of nearly 30,000 is just over 33% capacity.
Let the dream go MM.. It's never going to happen. Toronto is Buffalos territory so it would have to be the Bills or nothing and if that happens that's a disaster in the making.. Buffalonians won't make the trip to fill the stadium and certainly Toronto won't support a bad team.

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01-08-2012, 07:53 AM
  #85
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Southern Ontario really.


Do the Bulldogs go to Saskatoon? I think that would end Hamilton in the NHL even more so then now. I would think Bratina would fight that to the core.
If the bulldogs did move, we'd have another AHL team here as soon as possible.. For all the talk about the team moving over the years due to attendance, they sure don't seem to be in a hurry to do so.

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01-08-2012, 08:20 AM
  #86
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If the bulldogs did move, we'd have another AHL team here as soon as possible.. For all the talk about the team moving over the years due to attendance, they sure don't seem to be in a hurry to do so.
If they move the only team that i could see moving there is the marlies outside of them i can't see any other team current or new in a hurry to make Hamilton home.

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01-08-2012, 01:18 PM
  #87
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If they move the only team that i could see moving there is the marlies outside of them i can't see any other team current or new in a hurry to make Hamilton home.
asap is wrong choice of words.. Copps wouldnt be empty for years.. we're not the worst in the league for attendance and at 25 a ticket were probably a little better than average, i would think.

tbh i havnt been to game in in about 2 years. the tickets prices may have changed

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01-08-2012, 01:46 PM
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Bottom line the people of Hamilton think they are better then the AHL when they have poor support for the CFL. Myself included. Take that as you wish but it's pretty sad.
Before Bob Young became owner the Tiger Cats avg. maybe 18.000 - 16.000 per game now since Bob Young took over the Tiger Cats avg. around 23.000 - 25.000 per game depending who they are playing . With the new stadium on the way the avg. will go up because the new stadium will have a parking lot & from what I herd from a lot people the main reason people don't go to tiger cat games is because there is no parking available .

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01-08-2012, 01:53 PM
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I belive right now that as of the end this NHL. season that Hamilton has window of 5 years to renovate Copps Coliseum to NHL. standerds before Copps is to far gone & city would have to build another arena if they want an NHL. team .

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01-08-2012, 03:49 PM
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I belive right now that as of the end this NHL. season that Hamilton has window of 5 years to renovate Copps Coliseum to NHL. standerds before Copps is to far gone & city would have to build another arena if they want an NHL. team .
If that's the case, in 5 years they better not build a new arena in the hopes of an NHL team coming. Let's not make that mistake twice.

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01-08-2012, 03:55 PM
  #91
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asap is wrong choice of words.. Copps wouldnt be empty for years.. we're not the worst in the league for attendance and at 25 a ticket were probably a little better than average, i would think.

tbh i havnt been to game in in about 2 years. the tickets prices may have changed
There not the worst i would say a middle of the road type team in attendance and as a rule you don't see owners rushing to put a team in a middle of the road market as for it won't sit empty for years thats hard to say if the lease does not appeal to possible owners it could sit empyt for years.

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01-09-2012, 07:45 AM
  #92
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slow weekend of sales as we get closer to the event..

there are 11310 tickets left.
i dont know the exact amount of total tickets for sale and some parts of the stadium were never for sale (east endzone).. i do know there was atleast 22000 total for sale..
a minimum of 10690 have been sold to date..

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01-09-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
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You really think a city of 750K with a history of pro hockey going back to the 1950's would have been without some form of pro team for more than a year after the Jets 1.0 left for the desert.
TNSE didn't exist either in 1995-96, either, sipowicz, so what's your point

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01-09-2012, 03:08 PM
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The Moose moved to Winnipeg in 1996. Minnesota was not awarded an expansion franchise (The Wild) until a year later and they began play in 2000.
my point still stands, Potrzebie.....

XCEL wasn't built yet and the Moose were in such a bad financial state, that the IHL, had TNSE NOT bought it, would've terminated the franchise at the end of 1995. If that had occurred, would there be a tenant for TNSE, THE LAST 15 YEARS and to keep the franchise under their ownership as has been since.

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01-09-2012, 11:45 PM
  #95
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TNSE didn't exist either in 1995-96, either, sipowicz, so what's your point
Mark Chipman head of TNSE bought the IHL Minnesota Moose in 1996 and moved the team to Winnipeg renaming the team the Manitoba Moose, he also built the privately owned MTS Centre in Winnipeg in 2004 to house the AHL Moose and hoped to lure the NHL back to Winnipeg which he did successfully.

The NHL team in Winnipeg is called the Jets, you may have heard of them.

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01-10-2012, 06:18 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
slow weekend of sales as we get closer to the event..

there are 11310 tickets left.
i dont know the exact amount of total tickets for sale and some parts of the stadium were never for sale (east endzone).. i do know there was atleast 22000 total for sale..
a minimum of 10690 have been sold to date..
Where do you get your numbers from?

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01-10-2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Mark Chipman head of TNSE bought the IHL Minnesota Moose in 1996 and moved the team to Winnipeg renaming the team the Manitoba Moose, he also built the privately owned MTS Centre in Winnipeg in 2004 to house the AHL Moose and hoped to lure the NHL back to Winnipeg which he did successfully.

The NHL team in Winnipeg is called the Jets, you may have heard of them.
hello, sipowicz, wake up and smell the bong, TNSE wasn't in existence when Jets v1 were sold bc if you remember where were Chipman and Thomson bidding for the Jets v1 then, it was explained in all the Winnipeg threads that they didn't exist.....

read the history of the Manitoba/Minnesota Moose, it'll tell you that the IHL was ready to terminate the franchise in 1995, bc the Moose are in the same position as the Coyotes are now..... MTS Centre wasn't even a concept until 1994, and didn't it take 2 seasons before the arena opened bc the Moose finished the era of Winnipeg Arena

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01-10-2012, 11:33 PM
  #98
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Where do you get your numbers from?
ticketmaster.. they give you the amount of tickets left for sale in each section.

22000 is the number they wanted to sell to be a record.

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01-11-2012, 04:09 PM
  #99
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interesting..

according to todays count there are only 8471 tickets left for sale.. at min 13529 have sold...

this week they've been announcing the event pretty steady on fan590..

not too bad

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01-11-2012, 04:19 PM
  #100
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interesting..

according to todays count there are only 8471 tickets left for sale.. at min 13529 have sold...

this week they've been announcing the event pretty steady on fan590..

not too bad
Well it's completely surpassed my expectations, mind you my expectations were pretty low to begin with...

This might turn out to be pretty good....

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