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Surprise, surprise...Madden quotes "out of context".

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Old
09-18-2004, 12:52 AM
  #1
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Surprise, surprise...Madden quotes "out of context".

9/17/2004

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. (CP) - New Jersey Devils centre John Madden says his much-publicized comments regarding possibly accepting a salary cap were taken out of context.

``I was asked if my union decided to go along with a cap, would I accept that and I said, `yeah, I'd go along with my union,''' Madden was quoted as saying in Friday's edition of the Bergen (N.J.) Record. ``(The union) obviously has our best interest in mind. That's all I said.''

When asked if he could envision the union caving in and accepting a cap, Madden replied: ``No, not at all.''

A day earlier, Madden's comments in the Newark Star-Ledger ignited a fireball across North America just a day into the NHL lockout.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=99014

--------------------------------------

This...

``I was asked if my union decided to go along with a cap, would I accept that and I said, `yeah, I'd go along with my union,'''

...contradicts this...

`` And if it needs to have a cap, give it a cap, you know?''


How *** stupid do these players think the fans are?

I thought highly of Madden yesterday. Tonight, a five-letter word starting with 'p', ending with 'y' and including two 's' comes to mind.

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Old
09-18-2004, 01:12 AM
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Do the players, or owners respect the fans at all? Assuming we'd believe this garbage is an insult.

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09-18-2004, 04:39 AM
  #3
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NHLPA damage-control. They didn't like what Madden said, told him to tell the media he was taken out-of-context.

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09-18-2004, 05:00 AM
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I think if Madden believes fans are stupid as suggested here, he has good reason for that line of thinking. Fans who would jump up and down over one player saying something along the lines of "if there needs to be a cap, let there be one" aren't thinking logically anyway.

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09-18-2004, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane
NHLPA damage-control. They didn't like what Madden said, told him to tell the media he was taken out-of-context.
Agree.

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09-18-2004, 06:41 AM
  #6
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Serious question: WHat power does the NHLPA hold over players? This isn't the first time that one player seems to have a reasonable comment and the next day it says, that it was out of context. I wonder what the NHLPA would do, if the player just declined the "correction".

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09-18-2004, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisent
Serious question: WHat power does the NHLPA hold over players? This isn't the first time that one player seems to have a reasonable comment and the next day it says, that it was out of context. I wonder what the NHLPA would do, if the player just declined the "correction".
The official position is that they woulnd't do much. The unofficial position is that life can be a little more miserable for you.

It' just peer pressure, not a big deal. But you can still feel it pretty sharply, especially in such a sport where team spirit is as important as breathing.

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09-18-2004, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The official position is that they woulnd't do much. The unofficial position is that life can be a little more miserable for you.

It' just peer pressure, not a big deal. But you can still feel it pretty sharply, especially in such a sport where team spirit is as important as breathing.
AKA like a 5th grader stealing your lunch money.


As someone who supports the players more than the owners (really, i support the game of hockey and not one side or another), John Madden should have just kept his mouth shut. What an idiot.


He's the one who got a huge pay raise for no particular reason

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Old
09-18-2004, 04:49 PM
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FanSince2014
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The NHLPA wants to paint a picture that all of the NHL players are unified in never accepting a cap, but Steve Thomas and now John Madden have made it clear that it is not an agreement of all the players to never accept a cap, but only a mandate of those in charge in the NHLPA, and they are ****ing ****heads who need to be dissolved.

The faster the NHLPA is broken, the better. They suck.


Last edited by FanSince2014: 09-18-2004 at 04:55 PM.
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Old
09-18-2004, 05:21 PM
  #10
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Madden is NJ's NHLPA representative and he made a pretty harsh remark some time ago about Ottawa's situation and their players not being payed, he said if that was the case with him he wouldn't play.

I was surprised when Madden of all people made a comment that he might go against his union, and I don't know what he truly thinks inside, but he really is one of the most loyal NHLPA members.

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09-18-2004, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parise = The Future
A little perspective on John Madden if you will.
Never drafted? Check.
Told by his college hockey coach that he'd best learn to turn fries and flip burgers? Check.
Opts to stay with the NJ Devils instead of leaving as an UFA for more money after Lou Lamoriello makes a mistake on his contract? Check.

He's fully aware of how good of a life he's had it in the NHL to date when the reality of him making it in the pros was once so dismal and is one of the most forthcoming, straight from-the-hip players the Devils have. He's never been shy about offering up conflicting opinions which may be a bit controversial same as Jeremy Roenick does. People tend to praise JR and Brett Hull for making such off the cuff remarks at times, yet Madden is a ***** here? I don't get it.

Your remarks seem a little harsh coming from someone who grimaces, screams, and moans anytime posters criticize officials imo. Do you really expect hundreds of players to all be unified in their approach on this and all be ready to speak in monotone robotic mannerisms all throughout the lockout as if they just fell of assembly lines?
whether they speak as robots initially or not, so far two players have spoken using their own voice, only to have the nhlpa on their backs and making them change their tune the next day, i hope more players start doing this, speak out against goodenow and you'll see a resolution even quicker, maybe even with time to salvage half a season

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Old
09-18-2004, 06:11 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisent
Serious question: WHat power does the NHLPA hold over players? This isn't the first time that one player seems to have a reasonable comment and the next day it says, that it was out of context. I wonder what the NHLPA would do, if the player just declined the "correction".
NHLPA power - None.

Unlike Bettman who has the power and can fine any owner who speaks out against the party line.

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09-18-2004, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
NHLPA power - None.

Unlike Bettman who has the power and can fine any owner who speaks out against the party line.
exactly, if an owner had made a similar "out of context" quote, that owner would be paying a 6 figure penalty.

once again, the NHLPA shows it has far more class, but much less PR skills than the NHL.

dr

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09-18-2004, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parise = The Future
A little perspective on John Madden if you will.
Never drafted? Check.
Told by his college hockey coach that he'd best learn to turn fries and flip burgers? Check.
Opts to stay with the NJ Devils instead of leaving as an UFA for more money after Lou Lamoriello makes a mistake on his contract? Check.

He's fully aware of how good of a life he's had it in the NHL to date when the reality of him making it in the pros was once so dismal and is one of the most forthcoming, straight from-the-hip players the Devils have. He's never been shy about offering up conflicting opinions which may be a bit controversial same as Jeremy Roenick does. People tend to praise JR and Brett Hull for making such off the cuff remarks at times, yet Madden is a ***** here? I don't get it.

Your remarks seem a little harsh coming from someone who grimaces, screams, and moans anytime posters criticize officials imo. Do you really expect hundreds of players to all be unified in their approach on this and all be ready to speak in monotone robotic mannerisms all throughout the lockout as if they just fell off assembly lines? These are real people with genuine feelings and interests here. Not machines.
Yes, they are real people with real feelings. Madden spoke his mind, then took it back, making him seem like a robot off the NHLPA assembly line.

I'm not calling Madden a ***** for speaking his mind. I'm calling Madden a ***** because he took his comments back when the NHLPA obviously expressed their displeasure to him.

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Old
09-19-2004, 12:40 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster
NHLPA power - None.

Unlike Bettman who has the power and can fine any owner who speaks out against the party line.

The have to play their hockey with the NHLPA members. Life is going to suck when you find yourself ostracised by your teammates. No one will talk to you in the dressing room, one the ice you are a marked man and your teammates won't help you. Throwing away lifetime friendships.

The peer pressure from the union dwarfs anything Bettman could do to an owner.

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09-19-2004, 02:27 AM
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its appropriate that somebody with the handle "demented reality" made a comment about the NHLPA having more class, lol

nothing could be farther from the truth.... we're talking about players making millions of dollars, but are crying because they have made too much money and are now expected to give a little of it back.... class isnt exactly the word that comes to mind when i think of the players

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09-19-2004, 11:42 AM
  #17
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Of course Madden fell back into line. This even makes his case more to me.

Even me a fan sitting on the couch watching on tv would love to just get it over with and have the players agree to cap but I can see you cant let the arch capitalists get away this extortion under duress. Its just not right. All sporting leagues for years have fought this battle, and even still there is a lot of unfairness for athletes especially in leagues like the NHL for the bubble players. It takes testicular fortitude to stand up for your rights and preserve what generations before you sacrificed to get to put you where you are today.

I think that such an honest farm boy like guy as Madden would say yes I want a to play if it takes a cap do it. Im sure all the players, like us fans, would think that because they love to play. Its natural that players are going to think this. They dont want to do what they are doing. Its not fun. But even Madden realizes there is a greater good and he has obligations to do it. No one wants to do this. It would be easy to give in under pressure and let the owners have what they want. Everyone would rather just play

This is big business. There is 20-50 BILIION DOLLARS that will be generated during the course of the next decades CBA. The owners are trying to extort their way into a greater share than a marketplace would allow. They dont need it - they want it, and think by making us suffer through a year of no hockey and then the chaos of picket lines and scabs, we will not only cheer them on, but come back in droves and give the owners a fountain of profits at the players expense.

It has nothing to do with whether players are making enough to feed their families. Its about preserving their rights to negotiate their value in the marketplace like anybody else. Like CEOs. Something in fact they have already given up until they have passed their peak talents for the sake of competitive balance.

And competitive balance is something they have achieved far superior to any of the other 4 major sports leagues in my opinion. It is a remarkable achievement. And instead of celebrating it, we are so full of fear that unless the owners get to put players under their thumbs they will take our teams from us never to return, that we stupidly supporet them,. So we cheer the owners to take apart the most fair of all systems because we are too perspectively challenged to see the remarkable creation we have developed.

What are the real losses? If 75% of losses are non-CBA related, then the losses we need to account for a are about $60mil. This would be welfare to teams still awaiting the private financing to build an arena which will bring great profit to them . This could be to support teams like Carolina or Florida who clearly are developing some great young talent, but need protection while they develop their products into its first sustained competitive run to develop a fanbase and get the business under way.

This doesnt need a punitive 100% tax that acts as a prevention of spending. All it needs is a small gst rebate or a child tax benefit to support franchises in their infancy. A mild tax on spending to prop up the young franchises trying to get on their feet with the rest of them. Something very possible in every market.

But we dont need to cover the losses of Leonsis in Washington. We dont need to cover the cablevision losses of the Rangers. We dont need to cover the paper losses of St Louis. We dont need to send welfare payments to Hicks in Dallas or Illitch in Detroit. NJ is not destitute and a candidate for players costs being curtailed so that the Devils owners can find a way to make a buck. None of these losses are CBA related or a reason to cut back players salaries artificially to save the game. And they could be more than half the $240mil of reported leaguewide net losses. They are not problems that in way shape or form deserve to have the league shut down while the owners extort those losses from the players.

So the $240mil of losses is not a relevant number. The losses we should be talking about are $60mil. And you can see when the teams develop and build their arenas those losses will disppear. So they are only short term losses. And clearly the Player share offered enough to address those problems. And to reset the marketplace to a level closer to what owners think is its proper value after they let it get out of hand

Madden can see this when he thinks about it. He knows its right. And just like you and me, he hates that he has to do this.

Man does this get me going sometimes, sorry

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09-19-2004, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog
its appropriate that somebody with the handle "demented reality" made a comment about the NHLPA having more class, lol

nothing could be farther from the truth.... we're talking about players making millions of dollars, but are crying because they have made too much money and are now expected to give a little of it back.... class isnt exactly the word that comes to mind when i think of the players
::yawn::

two cliche's in your post

1) gee, my screen name is such because it gives people with no point to make something they can use to look "smart"

2) the players have given back a few hundred million dollars and have publically acknowledged a need to change the system. lying doesnt make your point any stronger.

its my opinion (if you dont mind) that the players have a lot more class than the owners, however the owners have a mountain more PR savvy and thats why sheep like you are easily deflected from the real issues.

the owners are using you. hope you dont mind.

dr

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09-19-2004, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Man does this get me going sometimes, sorry
me too .... its amazing how the NHL has used the fans in this battle for billions.

dr

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09-19-2004, 03:38 PM
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I want to know why the owners take so much flack for wanting to make a profit on their investment. The players don't want a cap because it might limit the millions they can make?

The reason why players like Modano would never accept a cap is because it limits how much the high end guys can make... you look at the average player around the league and 1.8 to 1.3 isn't a huge difference, 8 million to 4 million is. Who is really being greedy here.. the capitalist gambling his capital on making a profit in a league where player salaries eat up 75% of revenues, or the players making way more than anyone else on this board to play a kids game? I believe the minimum salary that a player in the NHL can make is $375,000 a season? How many of you would like to make $180.28 an hour based on a 40 hour work week while getting paid meal money and staying in 5 star hotels? Sign me up.

I don't understand the socialist view that begrudges the owners for trying to make a profit while giving the players their "fair share." If they want their fair share, go buy a team like Mario Lemieux and lose money.

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09-20-2004, 08:25 AM
  #21
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And Madden's considered a "character" player...this is what hockey fans have to look forward to.

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09-20-2004, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
its my opinion (if you dont mind) that the players have a lot more class than the owners
Lying doesn't make your point any stronger.




See how old that gets?

Either way, I have less respect for John Madden now, especially after I thought he actually had a pair on him.

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09-20-2004, 10:57 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Seachd
Either way, I have less respect for John Madden now
I'm sure he'd be devastated if he ever found out.

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09-20-2004, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by H/H
I'm sure he'd be devastated if he ever found out.
Umm... okay?

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09-20-2004, 11:02 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Vishinator05
I want to know why the owners take so much flack for wanting to make a profit on their investment. The players don't want a cap because it might limit the millions they can make?

The reason why players like Modano would never accept a cap is because it limits how much the high end guys can make... you look at the average player around the league and 1.8 to 1.3 isn't a huge difference, 8 million to 4 million is. Who is really being greedy here.. the capitalist gambling his capital on making a profit in a league where player salaries eat up 75% of revenues, or the players making way more than anyone else on this board to play a kids game? I believe the minimum salary that a player in the NHL can make is $375,000 a season? How many of you would like to make $180.28 an hour based on a 40 hour work week while getting paid meal money and staying in 5 star hotels? Sign me up.

I don't understand the socialist view that begrudges the owners for trying to make a profit while giving the players their "fair share." If they want their fair share, go buy a team like Mario Lemieux and lose money.
The owners are not getting flack because they want to make a profit. Everyone would acknowledge that something has to change. They are getting flack because they decided that shutting down the league was the way to get what they want. Make no mistake about it, the owners would not accept the possibility of avoiding this lockout. The players aren't innocent, but the shutdown is on the owners.

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