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What is wrong with Brassard?

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:45 AM
  #51
KeithBWhittington
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Originally Posted by CBJCougar View Post
We have come from a place where talent was graded more on potential that performance. Brass always benefited from his position of power, even though it wasn't earned. We've always played "favorites", still do. The rules do not apply to all.
Coug, I think this is a great point. We expect these guys to produce because of the potential and the high pick that had been spent on them, and MOST do not get the level of development that Brass did (Another year of junior after their draft and an AHL season)

This organization is all too quick to "hand" things to players that just haven't proven they want it or even deserve it.

I'm not going to throw Arniel under the bus totally on these decisions, CBJgirl made a nice point about the coach, he does have almost two decades experience as a player at the professional level... Brass is about 75 percent of the reason this is where it is right now, Howson and the front office have blame, they have clung to Brass, continually giving him the chances to earn something after it had already been handed to him earlier in his career and despite shipping out Brule, Voracek, Zherdev and Filatov for less "on ice issues" Arniel maybe handled the situation a bit more rough than Brass expected, but Arniel is VERY low on the blame list here.... This is a systemic problem in this organization. It lacks the proper "infastructure" to get the most out of players night in and night out.


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12-02-2011, 08:52 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by cbjgirl View Post
If even part of the Commordore / Voracek (and Brassard?) rumors from last season are true, I'm not surprised that there was a rift of epic proportions between Arniel and Commodore. Older guys on the team should be good examples of professional behavior - mentors not enablers.
True or not (and it probably is true) a good leadership group should have combated the Commie influence if the corruptible were to be saved.

Vendetta's, if that what it was, do not serve the franchise well if they create a situation in which a player becomes untradable.

To your other comments, a moderately trained eye can tell if a player is playing at an appropriate NHL level (working hard for example). Obviously we have little to no insight off the ice. However, I do know a couple of players that were horrible off the ice but were amazing on the ice and fit in with Cup teams. It's up to your leadership group to keep them and the other players in check.

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12-02-2011, 08:59 AM
  #53
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Twas a nice shot straight at Arniel that put Howson in a position where he had to respond. We all know I am not a fan of Brassard, but there is little reason to bench him to the level we are seeing now.

This is how you destroy any relationship with the player and give your team almost no leverage in any attempts at a trade.

In other words, Arniel is a moron and if Howson supports it he is a moron as well.

From where I am sitting, the treatment of Commie wasn't very warranted (to the level we took it) and the Brassard treatment is just poor form.

Arniel has taken over the lead from Howson in my "We need to fire his sorry ass" competition.

As for Brass's agent. Good for him. The damage has already been done and bridges were already burnt before this. I have no idea if this is going to work out for him or his client, but it will deflect some of the attention from his client and onto the coach and front office. It's a polarizing statement and it got Howson to respond.
This is pretty much where I'm at on this situation. I'm pretty much waiting for the eventual first game against the Jackets with his new team in which he puts up a 2G-3A-5P type of game (edit) because he's so pissed with the Jackets.


Last edited by Matt Foley: 12-02-2011 at 09:05 AM.
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12-02-2011, 09:00 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Coug, I think this is a great point. We expect these guys to produce because of the potential and the high pick that had been spent on them, and MOST do not get the level of development that Brass did (Another year of junior after their draft and an AHL season)

This organization is all too quick to "hand" things to players that just haven't proven they want it or even deserve it.
Exactly. It's inexperience from the top down in how to handle player development. I hate it every time I read some derogatory comment about player performance. The truth is that every year there are thousands of kids competing for this dream. Few make it. Those that do all deserve a chance to develop. They earned that right.

I'll play the F card. We did it with Filatov. Howson allowed the speculation that the kid was a flash in the pan, his value plummeted along with his head. Nik showed up, exploded and then was allowed to fizzle out. Next up, Calvert. Same thing. Mason. Do you honestly think there is a different future for RyJo? Moore? I read the clamoring for Akitson (sp), Mayorov, Kubalik and silently am grateful they are not brought here and tossed to the wolves.

The thing that annoys me the most is the quick shrug by fans who will dismiss this failure and blame the player. It is the players responsibility to learn but not teach themselves. Here's a little fun fact...

We PAY coaches to develop players.

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12-02-2011, 09:08 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
True or not (and it probably is true) a good leadership group should have combated the Commie influence if the corruptible were to be saved.

Vendetta's, if that what it was, do not serve the franchise well if they create a situation in which a player becomes untradable.

To your other comments, a moderately trained eye can tell if a player is playing at an appropriate NHL level (working hard for example). Obviously we have little to no insight off the ice. However, I do know a couple of players that were horrible off the ice but were amazing on the ice and fit in with Cup teams. It's up to your leadership group to keep them and the other players in check.
Agreed.

Looking back (maybe through rose colored glasses...) that stabilizing force may be what we missed most from the playoff team. The Peca / Hitch dynamic. The balance between someone like Malhotra versus Commodore.

I guess part of this, for me, is the type of guys you have. I'm not referring to on the ice skill.

You've got "elder statesmen" types - Modin, Peca, Niedermeyer (I know he never played here), Yzerman = old guys that the young guys can look up to that are relatively stable personalities

You've got the "quiet" types - I'd put Nash here and Carter, Murray (Andrew), Kris Russell = guys that don't put themselves out there too much but just try to put their heads down and "do it on the ice / lead by example"

You've got your "locker room goofballs" - Chimera?, Boll? - the type that try to keep things loose

But, you've also got your "frat boys" - Commodore, etc. - those that may or may not truly appreciate their livelihood and really haven't matured past the age of 20. These are the guys (NFL/NBA players) that end up broke 2 years after they're out of the league.

The right "team" will have a blend of the various types. They need to be in balance. Too many of certain types can lead to problems, whether that is the goofballs, frat boys, or quiet types.

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12-02-2011, 09:12 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CBJCougar View Post
The thing that annoys me the most is the quick shrug by fans who will dismiss this failure and blame the player. It is the players responsibility to learn but not teach themselves. Here's a little fun fact...

We PAY coaches to develop players.
I sort of agree.

We pay AHL coaches to develop players. We play NHL coaches to further develop NHL ready talent while winning games. Hitch is correct when he says this isn't a developmental league.

What the player is responsible for is competing. They should do that no matter their development level. The F word didn't do that and continues to not do that. If you compete, as one of our top prospects, you should experience some success at this level. The coach then needs to place the players in proper roles to feed success. That is one of the biggest failures at this level.

The F word was at a level of compete that Hitch was fairly comfortable with when he fled to the KHL. Had he stayed, his career might be at a very different place right now. The problem was the F word wasn't happy with his role.

When Manny decided to compete, his career took off and his has developed a very impressive role in the NHL.

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12-02-2011, 09:30 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I sort of agree.

We pay AHL coaches to develop players. We play NHL coaches to further develop NHL ready talent while winning games. Hitch is correct when he says this isn't a developmental league.

What the player is responsible for is competing. They should do that no matter their development level. The F word didn't do that and continues to not do that. If you compete, as one of our top prospects, you should experience some success at this level. The coach then needs to place the players in proper roles to feed success. That is one of the biggest failures at this level.

The F word was at a level of compete that Hitch was fairly comfortable with when he fled to the KHL. Had he stayed, his career might be at a very different place right now. The problem was the F word wasn't happy with his role.

When Manny decided to compete, his career took off and his has developed a very impressive role in the NHL.
The assumption here is that the coaching staff is competent at any level or that the system offered is viable. If they were then I support your statements. I just don't think they are competent, nor do I think that our current system is working.

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12-02-2011, 10:18 AM
  #58
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1. Howson believed Brassard too long he got a chance from Arniel last year... he played with Nasher.... after bad achievments he would put with Voracek to Nash and Filatov after only two bad games to the 4th line. Brassard began to play better but not as the first line center but something between the second and the third line center. And he played so the whole season. Besides some games when he played or too bad or better but never as the st line center. He was never benched or HS by Arniel. After the season Howson decided to buy Carter and Johansen has developed... both of them was better in preseason than Brassard, the better was Vermette too. Because of his FO he played awing but he does not know to play there. After Carter injury he played with Nash and Prospal as a center and had a possibility to show his qualities... maximum 3-4 games good and than? Again nothing. And the achievments without competition. Arniel chnage the lines than we got Letestu. It is only Brassard shame where he is. Never Voracek... never Filatov (there wasenough bad access ) had similar access to them. And I ask... this man was prefered but he didnot catch his chance... now Arniel is blamed for it. Why? Was somebody blamed Arniel for Filatov? Never. But for Brassard yes. That Dericks agent (he would never said it without Derick agreement) said stupidities about Arniel on the tour and before the game.... I did not see too much comments about it. Even blahblah agree with this. But when Filatov asked about trade after the season (he asked durning the seaon but Howson did not want to trade him and I never heart something similar from his agent) you blamed him... full of stupid words about him...only for asking the trade (btw... he never said bad about anything in Columbus or our team before or after the trade)... when Derick... he is a poor boy and Arniel is blamed for it. Strange access.

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12-02-2011, 10:34 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CBJCougar View Post
The assumption here is that the coaching staff is competent at any level or that the system offered is viable. If they were then I support your statements. I just don't think they are competent, nor do I think that our current system is working.
I can only comment on my opinion of what should be intent. The desire is that the AHL staff develops players to be NHL ready. The coaches then take over their career and mold them into their roles and provide an environment for success. It's up to the players to compete and embrace their role(s).

We've had failures along the way at every step. One thing that is not acceptable, from a player perspective, is not competing. One thing that isn't acceptable from the front office down to the coaching staff is putting players in roles they are either not ready for or not capable of performing successfully for long stretches.

This is part of the reason that the individual failures of Dorse don't bother me as much as it does others. He competes and contrary to those that think otherwise, there are roles he can play at this level with varying degrees of success. Give me the stupid penalty every once in a while over a guy like Brass.

I think once you separate responsibilities and evaluate the players and their situations, it starts to become clear that, in most cases, where the ultimate failure(s) are. You can't further develop player(s) if they don't compete. They will reach a ceiling quickly and won't go much beyond that. Ultimately this is what did Zherdev in. He reached his ceiling and couldn't break through to another level. Once it became apparent he couldn't be counted on to compete on a regular basis, he became the odd man out.

Ultimately that's what bothers me the most about Calvert this year, something happened to his compete level.

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12-02-2011, 01:25 PM
  #60
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This Allan Walsh stuff is almost an exact repeat of his tweets about Jaroslav Halak in Montreal and Martin Havlat in Minnesota.

http://www.puckupdate.com/2010/10/28...martin-havlat/

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Havlat has no goals in his first eight games. If the Wild really want to be vindictive, they can send him down to the AHL. They’ll be on the hook for his salary, which is a considerable expense, but it would clear a lot of cap space, which the Wild could either use or ignore. But it would also pretty much guarantee Havlat wouldn’t play another NHL game for the rest of the season.

And I’m not sure if Havlat has any kind of no movement clause, but I’m sure Havlat could be moved to a team like the Islanders or Oilers. And I suspect those aren’t destination cities for Havlat.

So yeah. Walsh has created a nice bit of theater here, but he doesn’t seem to have actually done much for his client.
He blasted Todd Richards for his handing Havlat, and another time for dumping on Petr Sykora. He accused Montreal of treating Halak unfairly

Here's the tweet that started it all, which has since been deleted:
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"Interesting stat of the night....Price is 10W, 32L in last 42 starts. Hmm."
He wants to force the Jackets to trade Brassard. This is how Walsh "requests" trades for his clients.

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12-02-2011, 01:31 PM
  #61
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This Allan Walsh stuff is almost an exact repeat of his tweets about Jaroslav Halak in Montreal and Martin Havlat in Minnesota.

He blasted Todd Richards for his handing Havlat, and another time for dumping on Petr Sykora. He accused Montreal of treating Halak unfairly
Thanks for the background. Haven't paid any attention to most agents.

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He wants to force the Jackets to trade Brassard. This is how Walsh "requests" trades for his clients.
No shocker there, that seems to be the obvious intent. Either trade or change in coaching. Although one seems a more likely outcome than the other in most cases.

He wants a big contract for Brass in a couple of years.

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12-02-2011, 02:35 PM
  #62
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But Brassard had to agree with his lies about Arniel IMO. Nice thing Derick, really nice

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12-02-2011, 02:38 PM
  #63
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He probably misses his old glasses.

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12-02-2011, 02:44 PM
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"Hey, Brass, make sure to send your agent a thank you note from Springfield, because that's where you'll be for the remainder of your contract. Don't forget to pack your Vagisil."

God, what a terrible GM I'd make.

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12-02-2011, 02:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by JF Omalycat View Post
"Hey, Brass, make sure to send your agent a thank you note from Springfield, because that's where you'll be for the remainder of your contract. Don't forget to pack your Vagisil."

God, what a terrible GM I'd make.
I think as a coach and/or gm, they need to lay out specific things they expect from each player, on a regular basis. Let Brass know what he needs to do, clearly and succinctly. Then he either does it or not.

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12-02-2011, 02:55 PM
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Interesting comments... if Filatov said it there would be hatest comments on him but Nikita is in difference from Brassard, a bright young man (Murrays words) he would never said something similar. When Brassard... we think whether Howson with Arniel did not mortify his feelengs... .

Voracek did not say anything after Arniels comments on his condition in Dispatch only that he could not say it in newspaper.

It showed who has lack of character. Brassard cannot compare with them.

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12-02-2011, 03:07 PM
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I think as a coach and/or gm, they need to lay out specific things they expect from each player, on a regular basis. Let Brass know what he needs to do, clearly and succinctly. Then he either does it or not.
The one thing they need to expect from every player is a consistent level of competition. You may have not been born with an elite skill-set, but work-ethic is the one thing a player has absolute control over.

I'm no coach, but I'd imagine that motivating guys is one of the trickier parts of the job.

And another first-rounder fizzles into obscurity!

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12-02-2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Interesting comments... if Filatov said it there would be hatest comments on him but Nikita is in difference from Brassard, a bright young man (Murrays words) he would never said something similar. When Brassard... we think whether Howson with Arniel did not mortify his feelengs... .

Voracek did not say anything after Arniels comments on his condition in Dispatch only that he could not say it in newspaper.

It showed who has lack of character. Brassard cannot compare with them.
Are you implying that, as a collective group, we held Filatov to a different standard because he's Russian or something?

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12-02-2011, 03:17 PM
  #69
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Interesting comments... if Filatov said it there would be hatest comments on him but Nikita is in difference from Brassard, a bright young man (Murrays words) he would never said something similar. When Brassard... we think whether Howson with Arniel did not mortify his feelengs... .

Voracek did not say anything after Arniels comments on his condition in Dispatch only that he could not say it in newspaper.

It showed who has lack of character. Brassard cannot compare with them.
Am I missing something? I was under the impression Brassard didn't say anything.

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12-02-2011, 03:33 PM
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Am I missing something? I was under the impression Brassard didn't say anything.
He had to agree with his agent to said it... there are very serious words... but right... I wrote it bad...change Filatov and Brassard with Filatovs agent and Brassards agent.


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12-02-2011, 03:35 PM
  #71
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Are you implying that, as a collective group, we held Filatov to a different standard because he's Russian or something?
Why because he is Russian? What do you think I am mad? Nationality does not have anything with it. I only shows difference standarts between them there.

Correct me right. Nothing bad if agent or a player ask for a trade it is normal and when it is ask right way I respect it. I am dissapointed for the way of it. Lets agent say the coach personally it istheir thing but not in newspapers and especially similar lies. And I doubt Brassard did not know what agent say about Arniel. If really not I apologize Derick of course but I doubt.


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12-02-2011, 04:33 PM
  #72
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He had to agree with his agent to said it... there are very serious words... but right... I wrote it bad...change Filatov and Brassard with Filatovs agent and Brassards agent.
You have got to let the Filatov thing go. He's gone, it's done and nobody is talking about him but you. In almost every post. I wasn't a fan, but he's Ottawa's problem (or solution) now.

As for Brass I must admit that I'm flummoxed at how much he's gotten scratched. Vermy's picked it up a bit but I think he's played far worse for a good portion of the season without getting some press box time. Me thinks Arny's playing favorites.

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12-02-2011, 04:43 PM
  #73
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You have got to let the Filatov thing go. He's gone, it's done and nobody is talking about him but you. In almost every post. I wasn't a fan, but he's Ottawa's problem (or solution) now.
+1, please, Eva, let it go.

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As for Brass I must admit that I'm flummoxed at how much he's gotten scratched. Vermy's picked it up a bit but I think he's played far worse for a good portion of the season without getting some press box time. Me thinks Arny's playing favorites.
When Vermette doesn't score, he still wins face offs and (usually) plays adequate defense. Brass has done absolutely nothing to earn ice time. I agree with many that there is little point in playing him as a fourth line wing, but he's not done anything to push someone out of the top six.

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12-02-2011, 04:44 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by WinNow View Post
You have got to let the Filatov thing go. He's gone, it's done and nobody is talking about him but you. In almost every post. I wasn't a fan, but he's Ottawa's problem (or solution) now.

As for Brass I must admit that I'm flummoxed at how much he's gotten scratched. Vermy's picked it up a bit but I think he's played far worse for a good portion of the season without getting some press box time. Me thinks Arny's playing favorites.
It was only comparing the difference I do not say about him in this board as the first. But if it is bad... sorry that I wrote his name here.

To Brassard: Vermette can play wing... Brassard not, he is bad there... I understand, not anybody knows it... nothing against him for it. He played a center with Nash when Carter was injured... do you think he took his chance? IMO not.The most of times he was invisible. Than Letestu was trying and has played very good. Why Arny would destroy this line only because Brassard wants to play?

I agree Vermy should be HS. But Arniel put him on PK and he has great FO so maybe this is a reason.

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12-02-2011, 06:02 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by WinNow View Post
As for Brass I must admit that I'm flummoxed at how much he's gotten scratched. Vermy's picked it up a bit but I think he's played far worse for a good portion of the season without getting some press box time. Me thinks Arny's playing favorites.
Played far worse? No chance. Vermette played well? No. But Brass is no where in his league (which is saying something).

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