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More scoring.. Is it coming? or are we a D team?

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12-01-2011, 07:25 PM
  #1
se7en
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More scoring.. Is it coming? or are we a D team?

First off - Mods, if this thread is better suited to be merged into an exsisting thread have at it. I just didnt know where this should go, if anywhere...


Our Minnesota Wild, I LOVE that we're winning games, I LOVE that we're in first place, I LOVE that we're exciting to watch again & lastly I LOVE that the teams buying into the YEO system & that we play with heart & tenacity now.

I wanted to say all that first so that this next part doesnt come off Debbie Downer-ish because I am by no means complaining. Im just curious...

Why aren't we scoring more!?

At first I thought it was the system's design, But no, thats not it... Remember how Russo predicted the breakout game against the Nucks & it happened. He said that "you dont play the way the Wild have played against teams like Detroit and not have an offensive outburst" (paraphrased) I assumed that game was how we're supposed to look right?

Again, I love that we're winnning & that we're getting evenly distrubuted scoring and hell, I dont care if we only score 1 goal a game as long as we're winning 1 to 0! But what are we missing. Why aren't we getting more output when we've shown we have the ability? Or was Vancouver really just having a horrible night!?

I guess I'll ask it like this, are we a team that just going to keep irking out close games. Or are we still waiting for our offense to click & we start seeing more games like we had vs Vancouver?

Again, as long as we're winning Im happy BUT with that said, I would love a string of games where we pot 3+ goals, or even route a team like 5 or 6 to 1 just to get all these "Oh they don't score enough" people to shut-up for a while...

Thoughts?

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12-01-2011, 07:30 PM
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If they can ever get it into their heads to shoot more... they will score more. They get a lot of quality chances, but also pass up on a lot more while trying to make the perfect pass.

They need to get it into their skulls that you can't score without shooting. Don't pass on a prime opportunity because you think you can create a better one.

This team get a LOT of quality offensive zone time, but the shot count never backs that up.

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12-01-2011, 07:34 PM
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We ease off. It seems to happen every game. I don't know if it's a deliberate coaching thing, or if it's just the players refusing to do more than is necessary. Once we hit a certain point in each game, we just sort of...stop offensively. It's like the players stop giving that effort once they've scored "enough" goals.

That said, I'll take 2-3 goals every game over alternating between 0-6 goals per game. We've scored one point 4 times this season, and two of those games were wins. In fact, if you apply our behavior to Pittsburgh, they're sit right about where they are points-wise. If you apply it to Boston, they'd actually have won several more games. We're getting enough to win, then we're done. It fits very well with how we play from behind as well.

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12-01-2011, 07:48 PM
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Would be nice if our 1st line had more speed. Heatley and Koivu are too slow for dump and chase and too slow for a good breakout rush. Also don't seem to get very good offensive zone pressure. 2nd line does a little bit better at that. I think the speed of Cullen and Butch helps. Just lacking a strong finisher on the wing(Lats). Our 3rd and 4th lines are quick, create good pressure. But not many scoring opportunities. Mostly just cycling along the boards.

So to answer your question, no. Not until the 1st line figures thing out, Lats comes back, and our 3rd and 4th start chipping in more.

IMO

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12-01-2011, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
We ease off. It seems to happen every game. I don't know if it's a deliberate coaching thing, or if it's just the players refusing to do more than is necessary. Once we hit a certain point in each game, we just sort of...stop offensively. It's like the players stop giving that effort once they've scored "enough" goals.

That said, I'll take 2-3 goals every game over alternating between 0-6 goals per game. We've scored one point 4 times this season, and two of those games were wins. In fact, if you apply our behavior to Pittsburgh, they're sit right about where they are points-wise. If you apply it to Boston, they'd actually have won several more games. We're getting enough to win, then we're done. It fits very well with how we play from behind as well.
Not sure I'd call it easing off when our biggest problem is the first period and our best period is by far the 3rd. We're slow to get on the peddle for sure, but that still doesn't explain the fact that we pass up on so many prime chances by passing out of them throughout the entire game.

9 of our 15 wins have come from behind in the 3rd period. They rarely have a chance to ease off.

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12-01-2011, 07:52 PM
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Some of it is the lack of offensive zone time. We can get off a shot or two but we can't seem to maintain any sort of pressure before the opposing team breaks it out. It takes a PP to get any time in the offensive zone and of course our PP isn't anything to write home about either. It'd be nice to see an organized rush into the zone with good passing once in a while instead of dumping it in and chasing it only to get off a shot or two about 1 out of 5 times we do it.

Edit: Got beat to it

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12-01-2011, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
Some of it is the lack of offensive zone time. We can get off a shot or two but we can't seem to maintain any sort of pressure before the opposing team breaks it out. It takes a PP to get any time in the offensive zone and of course our PP isn't anything to write home about either. It'd be nice to see an organized rush into the zone with good passing once in a while instead of dumping it in and chasing it only to get off a shot or two about 1 out of 5 times we do it.

Edit: Got beat to it
I wouldn't say offensive zone time is a problem, it's what we do with that time. We get a lot of quality zone time actually, we just refuse to shoot with most of it.

Last night for example, we spent almost the entire 2nd half of the 2nd period in the offensive zone (hell, they could've pitched tents there!), got some decent chances... but for the amount of time there, they get relatively few shots because they bypassed far too many chances as well.

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12-01-2011, 07:57 PM
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This team needs Gui to come back to become a scoring threat. This offense misses him so much, it's painful.

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12-01-2011, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
9 of our 15 wins have come from behind in the 3rd period. They rarely have a chance to ease off.
Only 4 of our 15 wins have come from behind in the third period.

Looking at those 5:

Against Nashville, we led 2-1 with 11 minutes left and proceeded to play only defense the remainder of the game (minus the shortie).

Against St. Louis we didn't trail in the third until 6 minutes in. With the game tied, we had limited offensive effort.

At Detroit I'll give to you.

At Edmonton I'll also give to you.

This team seems to consider "tied" to be "enough goals" that there's no longer a cohesive effort after any outside momentum wears off.

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12-01-2011, 08:10 PM
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Outside of most the comments made that are good ones, I'll just add this.

Where this franchise is, there really isn't a true scorer on the squad. Latendresse is probably the closest the team has and he's been so in and out with injuries the last two years that it's not only hard to count on him, but equally hard for him to suddenly come into the fold and turn it on. There's also a bit of a lack of creativity and puck possession ability on this squad.

The team gets by on a work man type of mentality and staying true to what's expected of them. The way they're constructed this year, I wouldn't expect the scoring to vastly improve. They have a touch of being what they appear, though I think there's guys who will step up their play a bit (and have in recent weeks).

The inability of the defensemen compound some issues, in my opinion, as well. It's not often that they can provide clean transitions out of the defensive zone or just be capable in support in the offensive zone. That's a bit of an over-looked aspect as to why it can be hard for the team to sustain significant pressure many times.

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12-01-2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Only 4 of our 15 wins have come from behind in the third period.

Looking at those 5:

Against Nashville, we led 2-1 with 11 minutes left and proceeded to play only defense the remainder of the game (minus the shortie).

Against St. Louis we didn't trail in the third until 6 minutes in. With the game tied, we had limited offensive effort.

At Detroit I'll give to you.

At Edmonton I'll also give to you.

This team seems to consider "tied" to be "enough goals" that there's no longer a cohesive effort after any outside momentum wears off.
Sorry, come back in the 3rd alone was probably the wrong thing... come back in general, as the Wild have only scored fist and won 6 times.

The Wild have spent very little time this year leading when compared to trailing in games.

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12-01-2011, 08:21 PM
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The inability of the defensemen compound some issues, in my opinion, as well. It's not often that they can provide clean transitions out of the defensive zone or just be capable in support in the offensive zone. That's a bit of an over-looked aspect as to why it can be hard for the team to sustain significant pressure many times.
Yeah it's strange because Minnesota is sort of a D team due to the fact the D has a lot of shortcomings that need to be hidden.

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12-01-2011, 08:26 PM
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Yeah it's strange because Minnesota is sort of a D team due to the fact the D has a lot of shortcomings that need to be hidden.
They're a D-team not due to being closed down, but because they are all aware of defense all the time, even though this is an aggressive forechecking team.

They are aggressive yet responsible.

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12-01-2011, 08:27 PM
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I think our game is supposed to look like it did in the Vancouver game. We shot like hell in that game, we were all over the ice, and we clamped down hard on them.

The first priority of the system seems to be defensive responsibility. The second priority of the system seems to be staying in the system regardless of how the game develops. The third priority might be offense. We've got the first one down, and the second one were very close to. I suspect that as the year goes on and we get more and more set with what Yeo's system wants, the offense will start to develop more.

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12-01-2011, 08:30 PM
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Koivu and Heatley will score more goals.

Koivu's Sh% was down around 3%. It's creeping back up to his career average, but is still the lowest of his career (excluding his rookie partial season). He's at 7.0% and should trend back to about 8.9% by the end of the year. With his current shots on goal pace, that improvement is an increase in goals of about 30% (trying to make 4 more goals than pace sound impressive).

Heatley has the same issue. His 8.3% is barely over half of his career average of 15.1% and significantly less than even his career worst season last year at 12.0%. If he trends back to career average, his 20 goal pace becomes 36 goals.

Put simply, between Koivu and Heatley, the team would see an increase of 20 goals on the season (0.25 GPG) simply by the two of them "regressing to the mean."

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12-01-2011, 09:13 PM
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I think a lot of what we are seeing is the short comings of the defense. not a short coming on the defensive side, but more on the puck movement side of the angle. stoner, falk, prosser, zanon all do not have the solid ability to get the puck out of the zone cleanly. schultz, scandella and spurgeon are all at about the same level of controlling the puck and getting it out of the zone.

i'd say that the majority of our break outs are the forwards coming back to grab the puck and move it up and out. this is exceptionally tiring for their legs.

for koivu and heatley, without much in the way of speed, they get stymied at the blue line relatively easy. with cullen and bouchard, butch can dipsy doodle around the defense and get it in.

the reason why we all sit here and say our third line is more solid (right now) on most nights is that they are the perfect line to chip it in, and forecheck. they all have speed and get in there and pound the opposition.

this is also why clutter has been a boon on the top line. koivu drags the puck through the NZ, dumps it in, and clutter crashes and bangs to dig it out and get it back to koivu.

setoguchi, for all of the sharks fans saying he is a physical player, really needs to step up his a) speed and b) crashing and banging.

this team is one strong puck moving defenseman away from having a killer power play. put a player like johnsson or kaberle of two/three years ago on our blue line, and we would see a **** ton more offense.

so with our defense's ability to get the puck moving limited, we are all seeing various symptoms of the offense being drug down in order to compensate for that lack of clean movement.

i'd like to take the time to research which bottom tiered teams have a decent PMD we could snag. oh, and i'd want to snag him now... sacrifice a Falk/Zanon/Spurgeon/Cuma + one of our tier 2 forward prospects to the team with the spare PMD...

/shrug

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12-01-2011, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
I think a lot of what we are seeing is the short comings of the defense. not a short coming on the defensive side, but more on the puck movement side of the angle. stoner, falk, prosser, zanon all do not have the solid ability to get the puck out of the zone cleanly. schultz, scandella and spurgeon are all at about the same level of controlling the puck and getting it out of the zone.

i'd say that the majority of our break outs are the forwards coming back to grab the puck and move it up and out. this is exceptionally tiring for their legs.

for koivu and heatley, without much in the way of speed, they get stymied at the blue line relatively easy. with cullen and bouchard, butch can dipsy doodle around the defense and get it in.

the reason why we all sit here and say our third line is more solid (right now) on most nights is that they are the perfect line to chip it in, and forecheck. they all have speed and get in there and pound the opposition.

this is also why clutter has been a boon on the top line. koivu drags the puck through the NZ, dumps it in, and clutter crashes and bangs to dig it out and get it back to koivu.

setoguchi, for all of the sharks fans saying he is a physical player, really needs to step up his a) speed and b) crashing and banging.

this team is one strong puck moving defenseman away from having a killer power play. put a player like johnsson or kaberle of two/three years ago on our blue line, and we would see a **** ton more offense.

so with our defense's ability to get the puck moving limited, we are all seeing various symptoms of the offense being drug down in order to compensate for that lack of clean movement.

i'd like to take the time to research which bottom tiered teams have a decent PMD we could snag. oh, and i'd want to snag him now... sacrifice a Falk/Zanon/Spurgeon/Cuma + one of our tier 2 forward prospects to the team with the spare PMD...

/shrug
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12-01-2011, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
I think a lot of what we are seeing is the short comings of the defense. not a short coming on the defensive side, but more on the puck movement side of the angle. stoner, falk, prosser, zanon all do not have the solid ability to get the puck out of the zone cleanly. schultz, scandella and spurgeon are all at about the same level of controlling the puck and getting it out of the zone.

i'd say that the majority of our break outs are the forwards coming back to grab the puck and move it up and out. this is exceptionally tiring for their legs.


for koivu and heatley, without much in the way of speed, they get stymied at the blue line relatively easy. with cullen and bouchard, butch can dipsy doodle around the defense and get it in.

the reason why we all sit here and say our third line is more solid (right now) on most nights is that they are the perfect line to chip it in, and forecheck. they all have speed and get in there and pound the opposition.

this is also why clutter has been a boon on the top line. koivu drags the puck through the NZ, dumps it in, and clutter crashes and bangs to dig it out and get it back to koivu.

setoguchi, for all of the sharks fans saying he is a physical player, really needs to step up his a) speed and b) crashing and banging.

this team is one strong puck moving defenseman away from having a killer power play. put a player like johnsson or kaberle of two/three years ago on our blue line, and we would see a **** ton more offense.

so with our defense's ability to get the puck moving limited, we are all seeing various symptoms of the offense being drug down in order to compensate for that lack of clean movement.

i'd like to take the time to research which bottom tiered teams have a decent PMD we could snag. oh, and i'd want to snag him now... sacrifice a Falk/Zanon/Spurgeon/Cuma + one of our tier 2 forward prospects to the team with the spare PMD...

/shrug
Good post. Wouldn't mind capital letters

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12-02-2011, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
I think a lot of what we are seeing is the short comings of the defense. not a short coming on the defensive side, but more on the puck movement side of the angle. stoner, falk, prosser, zanon all do not have the solid ability to get the puck out of the zone cleanly. schultz, scandella and spurgeon are all at about the same level of controlling the puck and getting it out of the zone.

i'd say that the majority of our break outs are the forwards coming back to grab the puck and move it up and out. this is exceptionally tiring for their legs.

for koivu and heatley, without much in the way of speed, they get stymied at the blue line relatively easy. with cullen and bouchard, butch can dipsy doodle around the defense and get it in.

the reason why we all sit here and say our third line is more solid (right now) on most nights is that they are the perfect line to chip it in, and forecheck. they all have speed and get in there and pound the opposition.

this is also why clutter has been a boon on the top line. koivu drags the puck through the NZ, dumps it in, and clutter crashes and bangs to dig it out and get it back to koivu.

setoguchi, for all of the sharks fans saying he is a physical player, really needs to step up his a) speed and b) crashing and banging.

this team is one strong puck moving defenseman away from having a killer power play. put a player like johnsson or kaberle of two/three years ago on our blue line, and we would see a **** ton more offense.

so with our defense's ability to get the puck moving limited, we are all seeing various symptoms of the offense being drug down in order to compensate for that lack of clean movement.

i'd like to take the time to research which bottom tiered teams have a decent PMD we could snag. oh, and i'd want to snag him now... sacrifice a Falk/Zanon/Spurgeon/Cuma + one of our tier 2 forward prospects to the team with the spare PMD...

/shrug
very good post!

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12-02-2011, 09:06 AM
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We aren't scoring at even strength because Heatley-Koivu is a terrible combo yet they have been together every single game of the year.

We aren't scoring on the PP because we don't have good puck movement and shooting from the point and for some reason nobody ever wants to go behind the goal line. It's literally all perimeter play and pass attempts through the slot.

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12-02-2011, 09:13 AM
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We aren't scoring at even strength because Heatley-Koivu is a terrible combo yet they have been together every single game of the year.

We aren't scoring on the PP because we don't have good puck movement and shooting from the point and for some reason nobody ever wants to go behind the goal line. It's literally all perimeter play and pass attempts through the slot.
The worst part of the PP is how telegraphed it is. You can sit in front of the TV and say "well Spurgeon's passing to Koivu here, and Koivu will immediately pass it back and Spurgeon's going to hold it until he can force it through to Heatley. The PKers cheat so bad because the PP doesn't even attempt to get creative with the puck.

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12-02-2011, 10:12 AM
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Well it's not coming, at least not today. Angry Devys in town.

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12-09-2011, 10:02 AM
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They are definitely a puzzling team. I don't know anyone who thought Heatley could ever recapture 50 goal lighting again. There is a reason SJ wanted to get rid of him. They are sure not a finesse team - I've seen so many garbage goals in the last several games alone it's ugly at times, but you have to admit this is an admirable group of guys to gut out win after win like they have been. They are a fun team to watch, I think.

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12-09-2011, 03:45 PM
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They are definitely a puzzling team. I don't know anyone who thought Heatley could ever recapture 50 goal lighting again. There is a reason SJ wanted to get rid of him. They are sure not a finesse team - I've seen so many garbage goals in the last several games alone it's ugly at times, but you have to admit this is an admirable group of guys to gut out win after win like they have been. They are a fun team to watch, I think.
We Wild fans would be extremely grateful if Heatley could just get 30 but it looks like it won't happen. No reason for us to hate him though considering the standings and how good he's been defensively. I'd still like to see him pick it up a little offensively though.

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12-09-2011, 03:59 PM
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I think he will. He's due for a 10 goals in 15 games type of run.

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