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Old
12-02-2011, 09:26 PM
  #201
Gustav Nyquist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreydali19 View Post
"Johan Franzen wants to pump you up."
Franzen and Luongo would get along pretty well!

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Originally Posted by stallion19 View Post
*hunchback*
That's what I was thinking. XD

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12-02-2011, 09:29 PM
  #202
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What does Howard need to do to get a ****ing SO. Mostly for my fantasy pool, but he saved our ***** in the second and most of the third. Happened against Nashville where he looked like a lock to get it too. I swear I didn't even think of it this time!

Good to see Detroit showing some killer instinct in front of the net. Franzen's role on the PP is perfect for him. Rotate in between the faceoff circles, click click boom. Love it.

Filppula finishing off a nice play by Z. Weather or not this is a, Flip is legit.

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12-02-2011, 09:34 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
What does Howard need to do to get a ****ing SO. Mostly for my fantasy pool, but he saved our ***** in the second and most of the third. Happened against Nashville where he looked like a lock to get it too. I swear I didn't even think of it this time!

Good to see Detroit showing some killer instinct in front of the net. Franzen's role on the PP is perfect for him. Rotate in between the faceoff circles, click click boom. Love it.

Filppula finishing off a nice play by Z. Weather or not this is a, Flip is legit.
Howard, as of a week or so ago anyways, was among the league leaders in shutouts.

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12-02-2011, 09:38 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by rx7dryver View Post
Howard, as of a week or so ago anyways, was among the league leaders in shutouts.
I WANT MOAR!!!

He deserved at least a couple more this season though.

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12-02-2011, 09:57 PM
  #205
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It really is a miracle that Howard has three shutouts. It seems to me Babs and Holland have secretly told the rest of the Wings to make sure Howard doesnt get too many shutouts so that when they resign him, they can pay less because his stats wont look that good.

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12-02-2011, 10:58 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
It really is a miracle that Howard has three shutouts. It seems to me Babs and Holland have secretly told the rest of the Wings to make sure Howard doesnt get too many shutouts so that when they resign him, they can pay less because his stats wont look that good.
It's one more than he had in 63 games last year, and matches his rookie total (also in 63 games). He's doing a better job early in games and the team is doing a bit better at limiting the ridiculous defensive brain farts that used to cost him shutouts late in games.

They have the cap room, I wouldn't worry about re-signing him when the time comes. I just hope they don't get cute and play the "eh, we're the Wings, we can win with any smelly old goalie" card...

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12-02-2011, 11:00 PM
  #207
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Franzen is an absolute monster. Really when this guy is humming, oh baby it starts raining goals.

Flip's playing the best hockey he's ever played. The only problem(s) I have with this are: Its a contract year. CONTRACT YEAR. Could be this is the player he is, could be he's just the responsible backchecking centerman with a 40ish point ceiling we've known for years. I'm also not sure what affect this will have on Z playing center for him all season. I felt that wing took less of a physical toll on Z and moving him back to center no doubt gives our 2nd line some serious punch, but also increases the likelihood he get's injured.

We've a ton of cap space, but we have to re-sign some players (Kronner, Stuart, Hudler, Homer, Bert, Lids??). If ever we were going to take advantage of a situation to use Flip as potential trade bait, I feel this is it. I would tell my buddy back in '08 after the cup win that we should deal Hudler as his stock was very high, and look what's come of that in the end.

The problem with moving Flip is that we'd be short a forward when the defence is the real need to address.

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12-02-2011, 11:02 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by TorontoWingsFan View Post
Franzen is an absolute monster. Really when this guy is humming, oh baby it starts raining goals.

Flip's playing the best hockey he's ever played. The only problem(s) I have with this are: Its a contract year. CONTRACT YEAR. Could be this is the player he is, could be he's just the responsible backchecking centerman with a 40ish point ceiling we've known for years. I'm also not sure what affect this will have on Z playing center for him all season. I felt that wing took less of a physical toll on Z and moving him back to center no doubt gives our 2nd line some serious punch, but also increases the likelihood he get's injured.

We've a ton of cap space, but we have to re-sign some players (Kronner, Stuart, Hudler, Homer, Bert, Lids??). If ever we were going to take advantage of a situation to use Flip as potential trade bait, I feel this is it. I would tell my buddy back in '08 after the cup win that we should deal Hudler as his stock was very high, and look what's come of that in the end.

The problem with moving Flip is that we'd be short a forward when the defence is the real need to address.
Umm, isn't next year his contract year?

And those three players in bolded shouldn't return, and yet you want them re-signed and want to trade Flip? LOL!!

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12-02-2011, 11:08 PM
  #209
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edit- wrong topic...

Yeah Flip's contract runs through 2013. So it's not a contract year.

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12-03-2011, 01:01 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Kyleftlx View Post
Euro Twins? Zetterberg and Filppula? Sounds about right!
datsyuk is from asia anyway, so he should not be called a euro twin.

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Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
You gotta have the Euro Twins playing together! That's what I've heard from way too many fans the past couple years.
they have been better apart since '08 finals.

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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
He never stops moving his feet and he works his rear off. He certainly knows how to make a good impression, especially for a bottom6 role.
sort of a lesser helm

i saw him in about 10 games with pittsburgh last season.

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Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
Great One my ass. Goalies were pure garbage water.
does that mean yzerman was mediocre?

every other player in that era (including yzerman) faced the same goalies, and no one but lemieux was even close to gretzky in scoring.

gretzky was also the top scorer of the '90s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
It's a lot easier to stop the puck nowadays with the ridiculous padding and equipment they're allowed to use.

Try stopping a puck one-on-one in this gear:

Look at all that net to shoot at. It's got to affect your style when you're dressed like that. You have to sprawl all over and hope the puck hits you, because you're basically wearing normal player equipment with tiny leg pads, slightly bigger gloves, and a face cage (in later years).

Now look at what today's players deal with:

Not a lot to shoot at there.

Point being, it's not the old-time goalie's fault he had to play in skinny pads, and in a lot of cases with the equivalent of 5 forwards and no backchecking in front of him.

Goaltending hasn't really improved much - if anything, technique is worse because 90% of saves are made without motion, and are due to positioning and not "making a save". Goaltending assistance (in the form of defensive systems and oversized equipment) has improved tremendously.
goaltending has improved very very much, as has team D.

less motion is definitely better technique. goalies are also more flexible, better skaters, more athletic, better puckhandlers. taking away the bottom of the net is also a very important change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andreydali19 View Post
"Johan Franzen wants to pump you up."


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Old
12-03-2011, 02:56 AM
  #211
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The Wings won the game they were very much supposed to win.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoWingsFan View Post
Franzen is an absolute monster. Really when this guy is humming, oh baby it starts raining goals.

Flip's playing the best hockey he's ever played. The only problem(s) I have with this are: Its a contract year. CONTRACT YEAR. Could be this is the player he is, could be he's just the responsible backchecking centerman with a 40ish point ceiling we've known for years. I'm also not sure what affect this will have on Z playing center for him all season. I felt that wing took less of a physical toll on Z and moving him back to center no doubt gives our 2nd line some serious punch, but also increases the likelihood he get's injured.

We've a ton of cap space, but we have to re-sign some players (Kronner, Stuart, Hudler, Homer, Bert, Lids??). If ever we were going to take advantage of a situation to use Flip as potential trade bait, I feel this is it. I would tell my buddy back in '08 after the cup win that we should deal Hudler as his stock was very high, and look what's come of that in the end.

The problem with moving Flip is that we'd be short a forward when the defence is the real need to address.
You need to be updated very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Umm, isn't next year his contract year?

And those three players in bolded shouldn't return, and yet you want them re-signed and want to trade Flip? LOL!!
And Kronwall is re-signed.


Last edited by 14ari13: 12-03-2011 at 03:04 AM.
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Old
12-03-2011, 03:02 AM
  #212
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Played a great 1st period and coasted the rest of the game. If Buffalo had won after that 1st period, they would have earned it.

Howard was, again, excellent. Besides the half-stupid penalty Kindl took on the breakaway, I thought he played really well.

Kind of a half-ass effort game that the Wings probably didnt deserve to win if you look at it sideways (to steal a line from someone else here).

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12-03-2011, 03:06 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
Played a great 1st period and coasted the rest of the game. If Buffalo had won after that 1st period, they would have earned it.

Howard was, again, excellent. Besides the half-stupid penalty Kindl took on the breakaway, I thought he played really well.

Kind of a half-ass effort game that the Wings probably didnt deserve to win if you look at it sideways (to steal a line from someone else here).
The Wings did not have to work that hard to win this game. It was an easy game and the Wings won it early.
What are the Wings supposed to do? Win 10-0 and limit the opponent to 2 shots per period?

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Old
12-03-2011, 06:47 AM
  #214
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The wings didn't have 60mins effort against nashville, tampa, buffalo and yet they get the wins, i'll take it.

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12-03-2011, 08:15 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
The Wings did not have to work that hard to win this game. It was an easy game and the Wings won it early.
What are the Wings supposed to do? Win 10-0 and limit the opponent to 2 shots per period?
60 minute effort would be nice.

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12-03-2011, 09:56 AM
  #216
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60 minute effort would be nice.
Why? So that they have nothing left in tank come spring? It was a routine win and there is no need to win 10-0. If you win 1-0 or 10-0, it is still 2 points. The Wings were supposed to win this game and they made it look easy, they took care of the business in the 1st period. They do not have to play 82 perfect games.

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12-03-2011, 10:06 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
Why? So that they have nothing left in tank come spring? It was a routine win and there is no need to win 10-0. If you win 1-0 or 10-0, it is still 2 points. The Wings were supposed to win this game and they made it look easy, they took care of the business in the 1st period. They do not have to play 82 perfect games.
Babcock thinks like me and the poster above(Flowah):
"I thought the third period we werenít quite as good. I would have liked to see us continue to go after them. I didnít like to see us give up the goal. I donít think we needed to have a pinch in that situation."

Just small little things, coaches and some fans always want the team to be better even though the overall game is good.

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12-03-2011, 10:24 AM
  #218
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Babcock thinks like me and the poster above(Flowah):
"I thought the third period we werenít quite as good. I would have liked to see us continue to go after them. I didnít like to see us give up the goal. I donít think we needed to have a pinch in that situation."

Just small little things, coaches and some fans always want the team to be better even though the overall game is good.
Very unnecessary nitpicking.

As for Babcock. What is he supposed to say? Yeah the team let it up against that AHL team. The Sabres had so many regulars injured. Our team came out, won the game in 1st period and played routinely the latter 2 periods like the veterans should do.

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12-03-2011, 10:58 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
goaltending has improved very very much, as has team D.

less motion is definitely better technique. goalies are also more flexible, better skaters, more athletic, better puckhandlers. taking away the bottom of the net is also a very important change.
That's sorta the point though, isn't it? I mean, you can afford to move less and you're better able to take away the bottom of the net when you're wearing three times as much equipment. Goalies 30+ years ago had to move more because if they just went into a butterfly, you'd still have like 70% of the net exposed for shooters to hit.

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12-03-2011, 11:11 AM
  #220
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That's sorta the point though, isn't it? I mean, you can afford to move less and you're better able to take away the bottom of the net when you're wearing three times as much equipment. Goalies 30+ years ago had to move more because if they just went into a butterfly, you'd still have like 70% of the net exposed for shooters to hit.
Goalies are also much bigger. This is something Ken Holland said where back when Ozzie was drafted it wasn't uncommon to draft a 5'9"ish goalie. Today your small goalies tend to be right around 6 feet tall and many are taller than 6'2". Add in the technical improvements in playing the position, team defense as opposed to fire wagon hockey all the time, the equipment upgrades - which have been reined in by the NHL, and the incredible reflexes these guys have - no longer does the worst athlete end up being goaltender, and it's pretty obvious goaltending has improved by quite a bit.

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12-03-2011, 12:14 PM
  #221
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Goalies' stats the last season and this are insanely good.
To put is a bit in prospective
Quote:
Most points by a goaltender, one season: Grant Fuhr, 14 (1983Ė84)
Will Brodeur, as the goalie with the most games played, even have 14 points in his whole career?

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12-03-2011, 01:41 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post

does that mean yzerman was mediocre?

every other player in that era (including yzerman) faced the same goalies, and no one but lemieux was even close to gretzky in scoring.

gretzky was also the top scorer of the '90s.
there's no denying that gretzky was an elite player for his era but the poor quality of goaltending really inflates his stats compared to players of the current era. I mean when they show highlights of those back in the 80's and early 90's, you see these floater wrist shots going in from the top of the circle with relative ease. if zetterberg was playing in that era he would have multiple 50+ goal seasons

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12-03-2011, 02:06 PM
  #223
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Goalies 30+ years ago had to move more because if they just went into a butterfly, you'd still have like 70% of the net exposed for shooters to hit.
And, you know, their face.

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12-03-2011, 02:07 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
That's sorta the point though, isn't it? I mean, you can afford to move less and you're better able to take away the bottom of the net when you're wearing three times as much equipment. Goalies 30+ years ago had to move more because if they just went into a butterfly, you'd still have like 70% of the net exposed for shooters to hit.
even when equipment was small, butterfly was better technique. easier to score low than high b/c the puck is on the ice, and arms generally move faster than legs.

staying on their feet still left much of the net open, and more dangerous areas of the net.


one of the 1st great goalies in history, clint benedict, was nicknamed "praying benny" b/c he pretended to pray as a way of falling to his knees to stop pucks. falling to the knees was illegal before 1918 (most of benedict's career was after '18, though).

when hasek flopped to the ice, he gave shooters a lot of space at the top of the net, but he was extremely effective. (imo, hasek was probably the best goalie ever.)


Doctor No, an administrator who is a goalie coach, i think, has posted about "vertical angles" for goalies. vertical angles contrasts with lateral angles relative to the posts. from his site:
Quote:
Rules of Goaltending - Rule Five

LEARN YOUR "VERTICAL ANGLES"

Most of you know that I'm a mathematician, so let's have a little geometry lesson: if the puck starts on the ice, and has to go over your body, it generally has to go in an upward direction. Once it passes you, it will usually continue to go upward.
Have you ever wondered how someone like Dominik Hasek will be sprawled out on the ice and still manage to make a save? Think he's just lucky? I've got news for you - goaltenders in the National Hockey League can't get by on luck. What Dominik, and others, know is that the "vertical angle" is a very important part of goaltending.

When you come out of the net, towards the shooter, you look like you fill more of the net, even though you remain the same size. The "vertical angle" theory uses the same approach. Let's say that you do a "two-pad stack" right on the goal-line - if your pads are one foot across, you're covering two feet of net; that's 50% of the net. On the other hand, consider the following:

There's a shooter twenty feet from the net, and you - in an effort to get a piece of the puck - two-pad stack so that you're ten feet away from him (and ten feet out of the net). Assuming that the shooter makes a good shot, one of two things will happen - it could hit you, certainly. Suppose that the shot goes over you - here's where the geometry comes in. To get over you, that puck has to climb two vertical feet. Unless the shot is a flopper, that puck's going to continue to rise - in fact, by the time it travels ten more feet to the net, it will be over the crossbar.

That example, of course, was just to prove a point - you're usually not going to two-pad stack ten feet from the net. Remember - if your vertical angles are covered, the shooter will either hit you or shoot over the crossbar. Have you ever seen someone miss the net low? Of course not - it's physically impossible! Use this to your advantage.


glenn hall invented the butterfly in '50s. but now he would be described as a hybrid goalie.


tony esposito ('70-'84) moved much more toward a modern butterfly, and used much smaller equipment than now.



patrick roy and allaire brothers popularized the modern butterfly, but his equipment was not huge early in his career. he was one of the pioneers of big equipment, though.








even ignoring the issues of equipment size and taking away the bottom of the net, i think it is basically indisputable that goalies are much better now.

it was common decades ago for unscreened slapshots from distance to beat goalies. routine wrist shots toward the glove and blocker were missed much more often.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chances14 View Post
there's no denying that gretzky was an elite player for his era but the poor quality of goaltending really inflates his stats compared to players of the current era. I mean when they show highlights of those back in the 80's and early 90's, you see these floater wrist shots going in from the top of the circle with relative ease. if zetterberg was playing in that era he would have multiple 50+ goal seasons
gretzky was not just an elite player. he was a super-elite player. difference between gretzky and a normal elite player was similar to the difference between an elite player and an average 2nd liner.

i obviously agree that goaltending and team D were vastly worse during gretzky's prime, and i don't compare raw stats from different eras as if they happened under the same circumstances. every player's offensive numbers from that era are inflated compared to now. but that does not mean gretzky was not an incredible player.

i agree that zetterberg could have multiple 50g seasons in '80s under the right circumstances. if gretzky had been born in '88, he would not score 200p, b/c team D and goaltending are much better, but would still be dominant, and could possibly have more assists than any other player had points.


Last edited by nik jr: 12-03-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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12-03-2011, 03:56 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
Why? So that they have nothing left in tank come spring? It was a routine win and there is no need to win 10-0. If you win 1-0 or 10-0, it is still 2 points. The Wings were supposed to win this game and they made it look easy, they took care of the business in the 1st period. They do not have to play 82 perfect games.
They weren't just sitting back, they were letting the Sabres back into the game, playing sloppy D. The Sabres had the puck way more in our zone and were getting good scoring chances.

I don't understand your logic. I never said that the Wings had to go balls to the wall for 60 minutes. But I don't want to see them playing lazy either. They don't have to play 82 perfect games, but that is ultimately the goal, to play each game perfectly, cut down on mistakes, sloppy play, get some consistency.

Playing sloppy and lazy leads to bad habits which can bite you.

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