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Stop Avoiding the Subject...We Need A Center

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Old
12-03-2011, 11:40 AM
  #51
joshjull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
I never saw more than 1 or 2 Portland games while Gerbe played there, and I honestly can't remember what position he played. The Portland Pirates website has always had him listed as a center ( http://www.portlandpirates.com/playerbio.asp?id=333 ), and I know he played center for Boston College, so it still seems logical to me that he could handle the responsibilities of a center. He's a very solid two-way player, he obviously hasn't found his goalscoring touch yet this year, but I also don't think he plays enough minutes.

Even just a google search of "nathan gerbe center" brings up many links that list Gerbe as a centerman, and articles that refer to him as "Centerman Nathan Gerbe...."

Roy needs to be a **** ton better, yet he continues to lead all Sabres forwards in even strength minutes. Ruff is fine with certain players not playing well, and extremely hard on others. A little consistency with rewarding the proper players with ice time could go a long way.

After Roy was hurt last season, Vanek said this: "He's a center that holds on to the puck and creates a lot," Vanek said. "I just try to find openings for him. Ever since he's been out, I feel like I've gotten the puck more." http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sa...icle337409.ece

That's about the most gentlemanly way he could say that Roy is a selfish puck hog who tries to do everything on his own, without being a jerk about it and throwing his long time teammate under the bus. He's always trying to stickhandle through 3 defenders, pass the puck through multiple sticks and bodies, shoot through multiple defenders.

Looking for the exact quote, I also stumbled upon this little golden nugget of info:


I figured you were using that Vanek quote and reading into it what you wanted to. All Vanek said was his role changed. He became more of a playmaker than a primarily a goal scorer. Is Vanek selfish because he is now the guy that holds the puck looking to create? Thats his role on that line now. I'm guessing you don't think so.

Quote:
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sa...icle392975.ece

Derek Roy's presence is a major detriment. He's like a ball of hair and filth that's stuck in your draining pipe in your shower. Pour a bottle of Drain-O down there, and all of the sudden that ball of hair and filth breaks free, and the water flows freely down the pipe.

If Ruff still can't see that after what happened last season, and through this season, there is a serious disconnect
This is my favorite. Roy was such a puck hog he was able to hold back guys on 3 different lines from being productive .

Roy getting hurt did have one huge positive. It allowed a combo to get put together that likely woulnd't have been otherwise, Vanek/Pommer. Ruff put Vanek/Pommer together for the first time ever a few games after Roy's injury to get Vanek going. They took off as a combo and then Ennis/Stafford clicked and Gerbe/Goose clicked.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-03-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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Old
12-03-2011, 11:57 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I figured you were using that Vanek quote and reading into it what you wanted to. All Vanek said was his role changed. He became more of a playmaker than a primarily a goal scorer. Is Vanek selfish because he is now the guy that holds the puck looking to create? Thats his role on that line now. I'm guessing you don't think so.



This is my favorite. Roy was such a puck hog he was able to hold back guys on 3 different lines from being productive .

Roy getting hurt did have one huge positive. It allowed a combo to get put together that likely woulnd't have been otherwise, Vanek/Pommer. Ruff put Vanek/Pommer together for the first time ever a few games after Roy's injury to get Vanek going. They took off as a combo and then Ennis/Stafford clicked and Gerbe/Goose clicked.
What the hell are you laughing at? All of the sudden 18+ minutes a night was freed up. All of the lines had to be changed. Different players were relied upon because Roy was forcefully removed from Ruff's options. Purely coincidental is your argument.

Laugh it up.

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12-03-2011, 11:59 AM
  #53
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Vanek's role wasn't changed at all. The thorn in his side was removed. Nothing more.

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12-03-2011, 12:33 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
It is not a requirement that you only have four centers on your roster.

Because centers are usually the smartest players, they are capable of playing either center or wing.
Have too many?
Throw some of them on the wing and move them back when needed.
Colorado has been doing this for the past ten games. Stastny and Duchene have connected for exactly one goal (Duchene from Stastny), and it was nine games ago versus Pittsburgh. In other words, the set up is holding both players back. And they can't separate them because they don't have the depth to pair them with any other scoring players.

I think you'll definitely see a Paul Stastny trade this season. The desperate need for help on the wing coupled with Stastny's declining play and Colorado not having a 1st round pick will likely force the issue at some point.

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12-03-2011, 02:10 PM
  #55
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This is the silliest time for this thread. Right now what we need are players that actually show up and try, regardless of position.

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12-03-2011, 02:19 PM
  #56
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Paul Stastny

Brassard for cheap

We do need a center or 2 and need to move some wings/prospect D for Centers

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12-03-2011, 03:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Paul Stastny

Brassard for cheap

We do need a center or 2 and need to move some wings/prospect D for Centers
With the Sabres in LTIR cap buffer area, those two players are unlikely to come to Buffalo since they have bad contracts given their production.

Brassard - $3.2M cap hit - RFA in '14 - 19 gp 2g 2a 4pts -10
Stastny - $6.6M cap hit - UFA in '14 - 26 gp 7g 7a 14pts -5

Brassard is bringing Matt Ellis production to the table this year.
Stastny is beinging Luke Adam production to the table this year.

Do you really want almost $10M in cap hits for guys that have combined for fewer than 20 pts this season?

That's essentially the same production as Leino and Stafford have given the Sabres. But, Stastny and Brassard are MORE EXPENSIVE.

No thank you.

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12-04-2011, 06:53 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
What the hell are you laughing at? All of the sudden 18+ minutes a night was freed up. All of the lines had to be changed. Different players were relied upon because Roy was forcefully removed from Ruff's options. Purely coincidental is your argument.

Laugh it up.
It's honestly not worth your time trying to explain yourself ShaPow, no matter how right you may be... You'll just get labled a hater and get beat down by the bully posters on this board because their favorite player is getting called out/picked on. Some people will never grasp the concept that certain players, even if they score a lot of points, can actually be giant pieces of dung/bad teammates/cancers/etc...
Couple of prime examples would be Miro Satan and Alexei Yashin.

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12-04-2011, 09:06 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
It's honestly not worth your time trying to explain yourself ShaPow, no matter how right you may be... You'll just get labled a hater and get beat down by the bully posters on this board because their favorite player is getting called out/picked on. Some people will never grasp the concept that certain players, even if they score a lot of points, can actually be giant pieces of dung/bad teammates/cancers/etc...
Couple of prime examples would be Miro Satan and Alexei Yashin.
Miro Satan..Yashin...both Eastern Europeans. Baseless inference that all eastern Europeans are cancers to their teams

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12-04-2011, 09:14 AM
  #60
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So we need a center, meh.........
And in other news, it snows at the North Pole, film at 11.....

We've all known ever since both Briere and Drury left that this team lacked any serious pivot point player on 1 of the top 2 scoring lines. Nothing new here really.
What will they do to address the situation?
Not really the question to be asked quite honestly.

The Sabres now have the assets necessary to pull off a huge trade, one that would most certainly change the dynamics of any trade partners roster, given the amount of wing and defensive talent the Sabres now have.

Will Regier successfully use these assets to address the much needed center position?
And if he is unsuccessful at doing so, will it be clear to Sabres fans that Regier should be removed as GM, or conversely, if he succeeds at bringing in that piece should he be given an opportunity to run the show for 2 or 3 more years?

As you can see, there is much more at stake here than just addressing a need on the team.
Alot is in play on this issue for sure, who is brought in with what price is paid and how much longer does it go unaddressed are really the key questions here.

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12-04-2011, 09:22 AM
  #61
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Frankly, getting rid of roy is a BAD idea. Even if we trade him for that number one center, we are STILL short a center. Hecht is a winger not a center. So right now it hurts the team to get rid of their 70 point number two. I think with the season he is having we could very easily get a better deal on him then at any other time. Maybe we could get away with Boyes + Sekera that sends them about the same salary back, boyes had looked pretty good and sekera has been solid for us. If they want a longer term send stafford. Keep Kassian up to replace stafford, and McNabb or Finley to replace sekera. If sekera doesn't get it done send Leopold instead. We can afford to lose of of the two.

Vanek - Statsny - Pomminville (this may just pull statsny from his funk....hard to not perform with vanek and pomminville on your wings)
Ennis - Roy - Kassian. (I think BZK might flourish on the second line. I love his game)
Leino - Adam - Boyes (I like how leino looks with adam and he was clicking with boyes before he got hurt. If boyes goes then keep kassian here and stafford where he is)
Gerbe - Gaustad - Kaleta

If you want to send Kassian back to rochester, replace him with hecht in the lineup.
McCormick and Ellis sit

Myers/Regehr
Ehrhoff/McNabb
Leopold/Weber

Grags sits.

This defensive lineup gives you your top d-pairing as two big physical dmen one of which is very capable of that offense. Becomes your shutdown pairing that is a nightmare to play against especially with an injury prone player.

Your second and third pairings are balanced with a puck mover and a defensive dman each. Ehrhoff Mcnabb I like because you have Ehrhoff who can be a nightmare on the point, with McNabb who throws HUGE hits and plays smart defensive game.

Leopold I also wouldn't mind sending instead of sekera so if you send leo instead switch him with sekera and you still have a good lineup. Moving mcnabb up full time guves you a lot of good options.

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12-04-2011, 09:23 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
What the hell are you laughing at? All of the sudden 18+ minutes a night was freed up. All of the lines had to be changed. Different players were relied upon because Roy was forcefully removed from Ruff's options. Purely coincidental is your argument.

Laugh it up.
Know who got those minutes? It wasn't Pominville, Vanek, Stafford or any other winger.

It was Gaustad, Hecht, and Connolly.

Your argument relies less on facts and more on the emotion of "Roy sucks you guyz!"

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12-04-2011, 10:57 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Know who got those minutes? It wasn't Pominville, Vanek, Stafford or any other winger.

It was Gaustad, Hecht, and Connolly.

Your argument relies less on facts and more on the emotion of "Roy sucks you guyz!"
Did I insinuate that Pominville, Vanek, or Stafford received Roy's minutes? No. But whatever conclusion you'd like to jump too, in order to prop your opinion up, feel free.

Roy didn't have those minutes anymore. The result speaks for itself. That's one of the facts that I have to back up my stance. What facts do you have to back up yours?

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12-04-2011, 11:19 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
It's honestly not worth your time trying to explain yourself ShaPow, no matter how right you may be... You'll just get labled a hater and get beat down by the bully posters on this board because their favorite player is getting called out/picked on. Some people will never grasp the concept that certain players, even if they score a lot of points, can actually be giant pieces of dung/bad teammates/cancers/etc...
Couple of prime examples would be Miro Satan and Alexei Yashin.
Or Mike Richards and Jeff Carter.

There are countless examples. Derek Roy is another one.

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12-04-2011, 11:19 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
Did I insinuate that Pominville, Vanek, or Stafford received Roy's minutes? No. But whatever conclusion you'd like to jump too, in order to prop your opinion up, feel free.

Roy didn't have those minutes anymore. The result speaks for itself. That's one of the facts that I have to back up my stance. What facts do you have to back up yours?
Until you have a piece of evidence positively linking the two events in a causal relationship, neither of those facts actually support your stance.

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12-04-2011, 11:21 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
Did I insinuate that Pominville, Vanek, or Stafford received Roy's minutes? No. But whatever conclusion you'd like to jump too, in order to prop your opinion up, feel free.

Roy didn't have those minutes anymore. The result speaks for itself. That's one of the facts that I have to back up my stance. What facts do you have to back up yours?
You still have to deal with the fallacy of confusing causation and correlation. Did Roy's injury make Gerbe a legitimate NHL forward? Did it make Ruff smarten up and stop playing Lalime and Rivet? Did it make Tyler Myers remOve his head from his ass? Did it make Ryan Miller's performance improve over the second half of the season as it did?

There's so many other factors that Roy has little or nothing to do with that helped the team improve as the season went on, that crediting the team's turnaround almost exclusively to Roy's injury seems to smack of an agenda.

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12-04-2011, 11:22 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Until you have a piece of evidence positively linking the two events in a causal relationship, neither of those facts actually support your stance.
How about the way the team is playing this year while Roy is leading all forwards in even strength ice time? Including last years 180 degree turn around in his absence, how could it be anymore glaring??

What's your stance?

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12-04-2011, 11:24 AM
  #68
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There's so many other factors that Roy has little or nothing to do with that helped the team improve as the season went on, that crediting the team's turnaround almost exclusively to Roy's injury seems to smack of an agenda.
Yet another Sabres fan ignoring the results of the current season.

Come on, fellas...Open your eyes.

Even last night, Ruff finally decided to leave Roy on the bench in crunch time.

Jochen Hecht and Matt Ellis were on the ice rather than Derek Roy. Perhaps Ruff is catching up too.

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12-04-2011, 11:41 AM
  #69
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How about the way the team is playing this year while Roy is leading all forwards in even strength ice time? Including last years 180 degree turn around in his absence, how could it be anymore glaring??

What's your stance?
Do you have any evidence positively linking the entire team's present struggles to Roy? Or is simultaneity still the only thing you're going on?

My stance is that 90% of HFB is posters pretending to be experts by twisting coincidence into causality in exactly this manner.

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12-04-2011, 11:44 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
Yet another Sabres fan ignoring the results of the current season.

Come on, fellas...Open your eyes.
Yet another Roy detractor trying to pin team results on one player. Miller doesn't deserve some share of the blame for that two-week span where he was struggling? Leino doesn't deserve some share of the blame for being lost for the first two months of the season? Or Stafford for not producing during the recent slump? Or Boyes for having three (3) ES points in 21 games? Or for Ennis struggling early, getting injured, and not scoring his first point until the calendar said December? Or any number of injuries that resulted in players like Myers, Hecht, and Ennis being replaced by AHL-level players?

I think you're the one who needs to open his eyes. The world is many shades of gray, even if you want to make this out to be a black and white issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
Even last night, Ruff finally decided to leave Roy on the bench in crunch time.

Jochen Hecht and Matt Ellis were on the ice rather than Derek Roy. Perhaps Ruff is catching up too.
Roy was on the ice when they scored the game-winning goal, and it was his forecheck that created the defensive-zone turnover by Nashville, and he had the primary assist on that goal. That goal was scored at 15:45 of the 3rd period. You don't call being on the ice with under 5 minutes of a one-goal game as being "crunch time" minutes? He was also on the ice when Legwand scored with 1:15 left after Stafford just missed an empty net. Remember that? That's crunch time, too. But why let the facts get in the way of a good story, right?

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12-04-2011, 12:12 PM
  #71
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It should be clear to everyone that the reason Tim Connolly got a 2 year 9 million dollar deal was because despite his flaws he could create plays and with his skill and skating cause havoc in the other team's end. Centres with the ability to produce 60 points on a regular basis who can win draws and pk are hard to find and next to impossible to get in anything less than a horribly one sided trade. We do not have a centre like him now on our roster--much as I like Roy he does not always use his wingers well and over estimates his abilities to hang onto the puck. It seems that he gives up odd man breaks all too often hanging onto the puck too long and then losing it. Gaustaud is good on the draw--once injured we end up relying on Roy like we did last night trying to hold on to a lead late in the game. Adam is a useful centre who plays hard but at this point is too raw--he will be a very good second line centre in a couple years and he is not bad right now. One of Sundher or Catenacci may replace Roy--in about 4 years! I think we need to see if there is a centre in the draft worth overpaying for but accept that the risks are there that we put our money on the wrong horse! Maybe though we should figure out what we need to mesh with what we have--a playmaker? A faceoff wizard? A formidable net presence? A sniper? I think our recent draft history shows our scouting has produced some good talent in areas we needed and there has not been a miss on a centre who was there for the picking.....

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12-04-2011, 12:21 PM
  #72
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It should be clear to everyone that the reason Tim Connolly got a 2 year 9 million dollar deal was because despite his flaws he could create plays and with his skill and skating cause havoc in the other team's end. Centres with the ability to produce 60 points on a regular basis who can win draws and pk are hard to find and next to impossible to get in anything less than a horribly one sided trade. We do not have a centre like him now on our roster--much as I like Roy he does not always use his wingers well and over estimates his abilities to hang onto the puck. It seems that he gives up odd man breaks all too often hanging onto the puck too long and then losing it. Gaustaud is good on the draw--once injured we end up relying on Roy like we did last night trying to hold on to a lead late in the game. Adam is a useful centre who plays hard but at this point is too raw--he will be a very good second line centre in a couple years and he is not bad right now. One of Sundher or Catenacci may replace Roy--in about 4 years! I think we need to see if there is a centre in the draft worth overpaying for but accept that the risks are there that we put our money on the wrong horse! Maybe though we should figure out what we need to mesh with what we have--a playmaker? A faceoff wizard? A formidable net presence? A sniper? I think our recent draft history shows our scouting has produced some good talent in areas we needed and there has not been a miss on a centre who was there for the picking.....
All I have to say is Marek Zagrapan.

As for the topic on hand, the most realistic way to get a center is to move up in this draft and nab one.
If it means moving guys for picks and packaging those picks to move up then it should be done. We'll see though, Darcy seems a little gun shy on taking centers with early picks.

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12-04-2011, 12:30 PM
  #73
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I would move Stafford+ for a center. The guy just isn't playing.

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12-04-2011, 02:19 PM
  #74
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Do we need a center? Yes.

Do we have a bigger problem to address? Yes.

It doesn't matter who you bring in until you do something with the attitude, complexion, core of this team. They just do not have that fire in them. As each of us have pretty much stated: 2 or 3 of the 6 core guys (Stafford, Roy, Gausted, Vanek, Pomms and Miller) need to go. The replacement guys need to have more of a grittier part of their game in order for us to change the makeup of this team into winners.

Why a deal centered around Bobby Ryan would work.

How about Roy, Stafford and 2012 1st for Malkin? I'd toss in a D prospect too.

Someone mentioned a deal straight up based on Stafford for Stoll. Yes, I know he is a UFA at the end of the year but it might be worth while to get rid of that cap space.

Even though he is under performing, I'd flip Boyes for Brassard. I'd rather get a young center coming from a terrible organization, with the hope that his development/attitude is because of the organization, include Turris in that department too.

How about Hazel in Phoenix. Package something for that huge, shutdown center.

It's just out of control right now with the inconsistent 4 plus years of this core, and seeing them game in and game out, we know they will never LEAD this team to the promised land...NEVER.

It's time to identify that, trade half of that core and bring in some gamers.

But with what we have right now:

Vanek - Adam - Pomms
Hecht - Roy - Leino
Ennis - Boyes - Stafford
Gerbe - Gausted - Kassian

Yes, it mixes up the lines quite a bit but Hecht is better equiped for a differnt role on this team, as opposed to centering our "scoring" line. Roy and Hecht have had chemistry before, and it would give Roy a couple decent size bodies on his line. It's an interesting group there. Yes, Boyes back at center, with Ennis as the puck carrier. Let Boyes and Stafford bang, and let Ennis rip it. GGK...a little chippy please???? As for adam, the kid deserves it right now and we need a top flight line.

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12-04-2011, 05:09 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
Do you have any evidence positively linking the entire team's present struggles to Roy? Or is simultaneity still the only thing you're going on?

My stance is that 90% of HFB is posters pretending to be experts by twisting coincidence into causality in exactly this manner.
Are you excluded from answering direct questions? Or are you just a critic on other poster's opinions?

My opinions are within this thread and others in the Buffalo Sabres section. They're not all about Roy. If you'd like to see them, enjoy reading.

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