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Pittsburgh Penguins #9 on Forbes list.

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Old
12-02-2011, 07:59 PM
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farscape1
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Pittsburgh Penguins #9 on Forbes list.

http://www.forbes.com/teams/pittsburgh-penguins/



Pretty interesting to see the Pens at number 9.

Question though with Operating Income at $-0.2 M which is said to mean (3.Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) does that mean the Pens are lossing money?


Still Net income is 110 M so not bad.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

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12-02-2011, 08:04 PM
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Didn't the team have to pay for all of Consol Energy Center's overages out of pocket? That may be playing into things.

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12-02-2011, 08:09 PM
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Gate Receipts: $47 M - not bad for like what 40 games a year.


Revenue per Fan: $42 -- heck i spend that just on beer at the games lol

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12-02-2011, 08:59 PM
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They lost money because they played only 4 playoffs games at Consol last year. We should see big profits this year!

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12-02-2011, 09:09 PM
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Not big on economics at all. I would hope they are not losing money. Especially if they are 9th in the league in revenue.

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12-02-2011, 09:23 PM
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I'm not an accountant, but I believe operating income rolls over. So say we lost 10 million last year, but we made 9 million this year, our operating income would then be -1m. You finish up one year, and that starts your operating income the next. The Pens have been losing money for years. I'd imagine it's going to take another season for them to reach profitability in terms of operating income.

All of this could be wrong, or I could be mixing financial statements up. Accounting sucks.

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12-02-2011, 09:29 PM
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Fairly sure it's due to the arena debt.

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12-02-2011, 09:40 PM
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or you could just categorize them by host city size with franchise age and still get similar results

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12-02-2011, 10:38 PM
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Revenue and Expenses are fresh from -0- each fiscal year, which includes operating income. Me and my dusty CPA license would be curious to know how somebody could have $110M in bottom line net income, while EBITDA is a negative. Sounds like somebody's screwing up something in the translation, because that doesn't make much sense to me, unless there's some serious OCI or other income, which is odd for a hockey team...

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12-02-2011, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CertifiedPublicGuin View Post
Revenue and Expenses are fresh from -0- each fiscal year, which includes operating income. Me and my dusty CPA license would be curious to know how somebody could have $110M in bottom line net income, while EBITDA is a negative. Sounds like somebody's screwing up something in the translation, because that doesn't make much sense to me, unless there's some serious OCI or other income, which is odd for a hockey team...
$110M gross income, not net.

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12-02-2011, 11:29 PM
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It's the arena debt.

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12-03-2011, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CertifiedPublicGuin View Post
Revenue and Expenses are fresh from -0- each fiscal year, which includes operating income. Me and my dusty CPA license would be curious to know how somebody could have $110M in bottom line net income, while EBITDA is a negative. Sounds like somebody's screwing up something in the translation, because that doesn't make much sense to me, unless there's some serious OCI or other income, which is odd for a hockey team...
What financial statement takes the net income from one year, and that's what you start the next year with?

With 3 accounting classes, 3 finance classes, and 3 economics classes in college, you would think I'd know this...

And EBITDA isn't negative. EBITDA is gross, which is 110m

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12-03-2011, 09:01 AM
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CertifiedPublicGuin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
What financial statement takes the net income from one year, and that's what you start the next year with?

With 3 accounting classes, 3 finance classes, and 3 economics classes in college, you would think I'd know this...

And EBITDA isn't negative. EBITDA is gross, which is 110m
Net income rolls into retained earnings at year-end, it doesn't roll over year-to-year. For disclosure purposes, I think you might be thinking of statement of changes in equity? But it begins with prior year equity, factors in any equity transations during the year and also net income to arrive at current year equity, essentially just rolling forward from prior year equity to CY.

EBITDA is also not seen as gross income, at least outside of accounting class from college. EBITDA (Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, & amortization) is less less any operating-related expenses and other cash items, therefore is not gross anything. EBITDA is a figure that is more indicative of operations, given that it does not factor in non-cash items such as amortization and depreciation.

In any event, $110M in gross revenue/income is clearly much different from net income.

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Last edited by CertifiedPublicGuin: 12-03-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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Old
12-03-2011, 09:43 AM
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I was always told EBITDA is revenues minus your costs of doing business. Essentially gross profit. I'm not an accountant though.

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12-04-2011, 10:13 AM
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CertifiedPublicGuin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I was always told EBITDA is revenues minus your costs of doing business. Essentially gross profit. I'm not an accountant though.
Yep that'd be right, but gross profit is different from gross revenue, though now I think we're splitting hairs because gross profit isn't really different from gross income, except that in the accounting world, professionals don't typically refer to gross income as synonymous with gross profit. Not sure why to be honest, but gross income is often times used in the same breath as gross revenue (i.e. excluding costs).


Whatever, Pens are #9 on the Forbes list, which honestly was a little *underwhelming to me when I first read it.

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