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The REAL reason why this team is in a serious funk.

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Old
12-03-2011, 12:20 PM
  #51
PanicItsVanek26
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Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
I whole-heartledly agree with him. That says a lot about the head coach. It also says a lot about the GM. The pieces are there, the results are not.
I think they're close but they need another center. I keep hearing Stastny's name which could put them over the top as long as they don't trade Roy for him. Roy, Stastny, Adam and Gaustad as center would look real solid instead of these wingers at center. There's plenty of skill but they just are not getting the job done. With enough line juggling Ruff has to find something that works right?

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12-03-2011, 12:27 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
I think they're close but they need another center. I keep hearing Stastny's name which could put them over the top as long as they don't trade Roy for him. Roy, Stastny, Adam and Gaustad as center would look real solid instead of these wingers at center. There's plenty of skill but they just are not getting the job done. With enough line juggling Ruff has to find something that works right?
The current roster, when mostly healthy, can contend. That doesn't mean they're championship calibre. But definitely a contender. I agree they need another center...But don't trade Roy for him? That would be incredible value for Roy.

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12-03-2011, 12:31 PM
  #53
PanicItsVanek26
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People have to factor in all the injuries and the fact that this team is as young if not younger then everyone else. Ennis(22), Kassian(20), Adam(21), Tropp,(22), Myers(21), McNabb(20), Enroth(23), Gerbe(24), Brennan(22) and Weber(23).

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12-03-2011, 12:35 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
The current roster, when mostly healthy, can contend. That doesn't mean they're championship calibre. But definitely a contender. I agree they need another center...But don't trade Roy for him? That would be incredible value for Roy.
Trading Roy for another center doesn't do the team any good. We need him and another good center' plus you wont find a center as good as him with such a low salary.

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12-03-2011, 01:02 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
I think they're close but they need another center. I keep hearing Stastny's name which could put them over the top as long as they don't trade Roy for him. Roy, Stastny, Adam and Gaustad as center would look real solid instead of these wingers at center. There's plenty of skill but they just are not getting the job done. With enough line juggling Ruff has to find something that works right?
Roy's trade value does not equal Stastny. They have to aim lower when moving Roy. Why not Hanzal? He's a little less skilled than Jordan Staal but bigger and meaner.

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12-03-2011, 01:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Roy's trade value does not equal Stastny. They have to aim lower when moving Roy. Why not Hanzal? He's a little less skilled than Jordan Staal but bigger and meaner.
Moving Roy for another center doesn't help the team unless you're getting a way better center then him. Keep him so you have two good centers, without an elite center you have to have center depth. You really think they could contend with Hanzal as their top center?

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12-03-2011, 01:17 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Ted Black on WGR said he feels the team as presently constituted could contend for a Cup. So don't hold your breath waiting for major changes.
Could contend is not will contend or even could win. That's disappointing in a way and typical in another -- he's likely not going to rip them publically right now regardless. That would be inconsistent with how we've seen them operate since taking over. Privately, they may be voicing concerns (I would expect them to), but to the press? No.

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12-03-2011, 01:18 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Roy's trade value does not equal Stastny.
Since 2006-07...

Stastny: 335 points in 374 games - .30 GPG/.90 PPG (25 goals, 49 assists, 74 points over 82 games).

Roy: 334 points in 355 games - .35 GPG/.94 PPG (29/48/77 over 82).

Stastny is two years younger than Roy and signed for a year longer, which tips the scales in his favor somewhat. He's also a better face-off man, though Roy has been quite good in that department this year. So, basically, their value can't be that far off. However, Colorado seems to need wingers more than centers, while it's just the opposite for Buffalo. Maybe Stafford++ would get a deal done.


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12-03-2011, 01:22 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
Since 2006-07...

Stastny: 335 points in 374 games - .90 PPG (74 over 82 games).

Roy: 334 points in 355 games - .94 PPG (77/82).

Stastny is two years younger than Roy and signed for a year longer, which tips the scales in his favor somewhat. He's also a better face-off man, though Roy has been quite good in that department this year. So, basically, their value can't be that far off. However, Colorado seems to need wingers more than centers. Maybe Stafford++ would get a deal done.
Given the Sabres cap issues, where is the other $2.1 million coming from to make up the difference in the cap hit if it's a Roy-Stastny lateral move? It actually ties up more money for no improvement in production. It doesn't work.

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12-03-2011, 01:25 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by volatile View Post
How long do you think it would take a new GM to change the make-up of this team? Do you expect them to just make a bunch of trades to do so? That's usually a pipe-dream. I don't know how long it would take but I do know that this team, as constructed, will at best be victim to another first round exit.

More realistically, they would do it through the draft and some trades here and there. And, that's fine. I've waited almost 40 years. What's another 5?

You know... exactly what Darcy Regier has been doing. So have 29 other GM's around the league.

They can't get rid of players without having NHL capable players ready to replace them. If it means getting players on the cusp of being in the NHL, they certainly can.

They obvious needed more size and/or toughness What they NEED is for the playerst I have mentioned to start pulling their weight. Now, and in the playoffs...if they make it.
Adam, Kassian will be top 6 replacements.
Tropp, Foligno will be bottom 6 replacements
McNabb will possibly be a top 4 d-man.
Regehr was brought in to help that temporarily.

They needed a bit more scoring too (particularly in the playoffs) Yeah, and Stafford and Roy haven't shown the ability to do that. Just like Connolly couldn't.
Ehrhoff is a top 2 d-man and PP QB.
Leino was probably the best option behind Brad Richards for "clutch scoring" (in the playoffs)Best option doesn't mean you have to bite on that option. I am not about to throw Leino to the curb after 25 games but the early returns have been disppointing at best.
Armia has the potential to be a top line player.We will see. Potential is unfulfilled promise. I hope he can be a great player.

Then of course there is Myers and Ennis.

They have been trying to shift the make-up of this team slowly. There's no reason to gut a pretty good (but easily arguable not good enough to contend for the cup) team overnight just because.You get rid of a Stafford and a Roy and that certainly can make a difference. Neither has earned their keep in the playoffs. Now, they aren't earning their keep in the regular season. These guys are far from untouchable and can't do without type players.
Responses above.

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12-03-2011, 01:28 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Given the Sabres cap issues, where is the other $2.1 million coming from to make up the difference in the cap hit if it's a Roy-Stastny lateral move? It actually ties up more money for no improvement in production. It doesn't work.
I agree.

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12-03-2011, 01:29 PM
  #62
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For those railing on Stastny's production, who has he had playing on his wings?

Then, who has played along side Roy?

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12-03-2011, 01:34 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
For those railing on Stastny's production, who has he had playing on his wings?

Then, who has played along side Roy?
So basically, your point is :

Roy has had good numbers, but it's a result of good players around him.

Stasny has had good numbers, but it's in spite of the players around him.

Pretty weak.

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12-03-2011, 01:39 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
For those railing on Stastny's production, who has he had playing on his wings?

Then, who has played along side Roy?
For one, nobody's railing on Stastny's career production - just pointing out the facts. Two, I have never had access to Avalanche games, so I don't know which line mates Stastny has had over his career. As far as this year goes, a bit of research indicates he has played with Hejduk, Duchene and Jones, perhaps among others. All three of those guys are good players, so Stastny can't blame his poor 2011 production on a lack of winger support.

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12-03-2011, 01:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
For those railing on Stastny's production, who has he had playing on his wings?

Then, who has played along side Roy?
Future HHoF winger Milan Hejduk.

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12-03-2011, 01:51 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
Moving Roy for another center doesn't help the team unless you're getting a way better center then him. Keep him so you have two good centers, without an elite center you have to have center depth. You really think they could contend with Hanzal as their top center?
No, probably not. But they could make another deal for a #1 center that doesn't involve Roy, and use Hanzal as the #2.

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12-03-2011, 02:08 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Future HHoF winger Milan Hejduk.
I've always wondered, why is Hedjuk considered a HHoF lock? His stats are impressive, but nothing mind blowing.

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12-03-2011, 02:30 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Responses above.
Like I said.. you can get rid of those guys, but you need replacements. Not as easy as just wanting to do it.

If Darcy is trying to trade Stafford+ for Bobby Ryan, are you going to fault him for not getting it done if the asking price is ridiculously high?

I don't buy the argument of getting rid of guys just to get rid of them. If you're getting rid of someone, get rid of them because it will make you better. In most cases, that means having a replacement ready (Stafford). In other cases, it just means getting rid of them (Connolly).


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Old
12-03-2011, 02:39 PM
  #69
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I want to take a different tact on 5 Min Major's question. Not trades or line changes but systems of play.

I looked at last night's numbers. Specifically SOG and via the replay, quality chances.

Given the axiom that 10 shots on net usually yields 1 goal (.900 save percentage)......,

Sabres had 28 shots - 1 goal, several quality chances not buried... missed open nets, etc..

Wings had 36 shots - 5 goals minus the empty netter.

The good news is that the Sabres are getting quality chances. They could have easily had 3 or 4 goals last night in spite of the Wings dominance in time of possession.

The bad news is that they are not getting enough shots overall and not capitalizing on the ones they do get.

Correspondantly, the defensive system allows a too many shots and too many of them are getting through. Cases of sufficient puck support when the D's digging in the corners and along the boards are rare. And there's way too much standing around by the fwds waiting for a break out pass. The D ends up whipping the puck around blindly when they do get possession because they don't know where the FWDS are going to be. We need to start the transition as soon as possession is gained not a half dozen seconds later (MAG!).

Everyone knows our D is badly depleted. Seems that much more is needed and should be expected from the fwds in the defensive zone.

Bottom line, we aren't going to win with these types of numbers.

And yes, all of this is coachable...........

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12-03-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
For one, nobody's railing on Stastny's career production - just pointing out the facts. Two, I have never had access to Avalanche games, so I don't know which line mates Stastny has had over his career. As far as this year goes, a bit of research indicates he has played with Hejduk, Duchene and Jones, perhaps among others. All three of those guys are good players, so Stastny can't blame his poor 2011 production on a lack of winger support.

I see just about everyone of their games. Yr' right, Stastny's problem is not his wingers. It's Stastny. He not engaged. His head is somewhere else and he's lost his edge. Big questions right now in Avalancheville about his contract versus his performance. Some are questioning whether he's good enough to have earned such a contract.

Plus the issue with his Dad's call out of the organization.

Stay away from Stastny guys. He's not the answer.

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12-03-2011, 03:26 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
Trading Roy for another center doesn't do the team any good. We need him and another good center' plus you wont find a center as good as him with such a low salary.
I'm of the belief that simply removing Roy from the equation does the team a lot of good.

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12-03-2011, 03:33 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Roy's trade value does not equal Stastny. They have to aim lower when moving Roy. Why not Hanzal? He's a little less skilled than Jordan Staal but bigger and meaner.
I think you overvalue Stastny and undervalue Roy. Especially given that Roy counts $2.3M less against the cap than Stastny does. Oh yeah, and Roy has been more productive offensively over the past 1.25 seasons than Stastny.

The grass isn't always greener.

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12-03-2011, 04:32 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
I think you overvalue Stastny and undervalue Roy. Especially given that Roy counts $2.3M less against the cap than Stastny does. Oh yeah, and Roy has been more productive offensively over the past 1.25 seasons than Stastny.

The grass isn't always greener.
I thought Stastny was the #1 center future conn smythe winning leader of the sabres? of course it's greener!

I still say Hanzal. Despite the fact that he's not very hot right now. The thing is, I don't even care if they even make the playoffs anymore, compared to how badly I want them to all play a physical, inspiring brand of hockey. The Sabres never seem to hate their opponents. And I hate that about them. Get angry, and use that.

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12-03-2011, 05:17 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
Trading Roy for another center doesn't do the team any good. We need him and another good center' plus you wont find a center as good as him with such a low salary.
Then what are you going to give up for him, and be able to fit him into the cap?

I don't see him as a major upgrade. I also don't see any real No. 1 centers being shopped around, unless you are willing to pay a big price for them.

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12-03-2011, 05:44 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
I've always wondered, why is Hedjuk considered a HHoF lock? His stats are impressive, but nothing mind blowing.
He isn't. I'm surprised Chain would say so.

1 Rocket Richard
1 2nd team All-Star
4 Top 10 Goals finishes (1, 7, 7, 9)
1 Top 10 points finish (4)
1 Stanley Cup


Those aren't HHoF credentials to me. Perhaps I've missed something major, but I dont feel as if I have.

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