HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Systems and Adjustments

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-05-2011, 01:25 PM
  #26
grN1g
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Minnesota
Country: United States
Posts: 1,553
vCash: 500
Wild fan here, came over to see whats been going on with Kopi and Willy cause i have em on my fantasy roster and they were a big contribution to my great start this season, but i think i found my answer. anyway, maybe i can shed some light on why Yeo's system (whos being campared to Murray's system) is working so well for us.

1. we have wonderful Depth. our bottom9 carried our team alot of November and having players like Brodziak, Clutterbuck, and Waiver pick up Nick Johnson(wow what a great pick up) have been the heart and soul for Yeo, and all play the way he preaches n have been getting rewarded.

2. Our goal-tending. There's no doubt that lack of offense means you need a great 1-2 tandem in your net. Backstrom and Harding have been exactly that. you could start either on any given night and the team believes they can win in front of either, and believe either of them can steal a game.

3. Everyone's buying into the system. Ya we got lack of scoring from our main stars... (koviu, heatley, setoguchi, bouchard) and are missing some like Latendresse, but they stick too it. they dont let things like point totals frustrate them. they play the same way game in and game out and respect the coach to the absolute fullest on everything he says, or the decisions he makes.

Boston Won the cup with only 2 players hitting 64? points i believe, in the regular season, the rest were around 50's-20's. if you don't have crosby's malkin's datsyuk's stamkos' etc.. you gotta have scoring depth. Right now wild have 5 players tied for the most goals on our team with 8. Clutterbuck, brodziak, cullen, heatley, and setoguchi.


so thats preety much the wild summed up. I do believe you LA fans have way more options to work with all the players you have. i don't believe for once second that if your team starts to come together and stick to it everynight that you guys wont find yourselfs in the top of the league and one of the toughest teams to beat.

grN1g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 01:44 PM
  #27
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grN1g View Post
2. Our goal-tending. There's no doubt that lack of offense means you need a great 1-2 tandem in your net. Backstrom and Harding have been exactly that. you could start either on any given night and the team believes they can win in front of either, and believe either of them can steal a game.
This stood out to me. As a fanbase that worries about Quick burning out, it's interesting to look at Minnesota and see an equally good starter in Backstrom. Yet Backstrom gets rest because Harding plays, and plays lots. Bernier meanwhile rides the pine like it's a bus. I know Bernier's first few starts weren't terrific, but we all know he's a good goalie and can be a much more regular contributor to this team. Having A rested Backstrom for the playoffs, and a well adjusted Harding in case Backstrom gets hurt, is a nice bonus for the Wild to have. Something TM refuses to do.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 01:56 PM
  #28
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 9,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron View Post
For all the crying that fans do on this board wanting Murray's head, the players don't feel the same way.

Obviously, they trust Murray in their game plan and know its on them to execute.

It's all on the players, guys. Frankly, I don't understand all the Murray hate...after all, he isn't causing these guys to continuously miss each other on passing the puck to each other in a timely fashion.
I see where you're coming from and I'd like to agree but I can't.

We're in yr 6 of a 5 yr rebuild, and DL just traded away some young talent for top offensive talent.

THIS is the year they are supposed to play on a different level, make other teams look at the schedule and mark down when they "have to play the Kings again." But that certainly ain't happening, is it?

I like Murray, I really do - but he is not getting results. And it appears on paper that this team has plenty of talent. If this team is still floundering by end of Jan, TM needs to go.

Pitt changed their coach and won the Cup, StL just changed their coach and they went on a tear.

It's time to EXPECT this team to WIN. I see no need for any "major roster moves" at this time - the only other thing you can change is the coach.

Butch 19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 02:44 PM
  #29
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
.... I like Murray, I really do - but he is not getting results. And it appears on paper that this team has plenty of talent. If this team is still floundering by end of Jan, TM needs to go.
I agree, this pretty much sums up what I've been posting this year. December 11 will be the deciding month. Which may explain why we finally saw TM yell at his players in public against Montreal.

I find it very hard to believe Lombardi would replace Murray while both Richards and Mitchell are out. I also think Lombardi is giving this group of players till New Years to figure out how to play together as five man units. Lot of player changes this year. If Doughty and the forwards can just push their game up to their career averages by mid January we'll be fine. If not, then we'll see the change made.

Sometimes changing a coach is like pulling a goalie - it's not always fair to the goalie or the goalies fault. But it can wake a team up.

Duc620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 02:53 PM
  #30
agentfouser
Playoffs?!?!
 
agentfouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Ireland
Posts: 2,361
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
...
Sometimes changing a coach is like pulling a goalie - it's not always fair to the goalie or the goalies fault. But it can wake a team up.
This is a great point, and maybe the direction I was headed in sharing this article. The team seems to lack passion, to lack intensity. People wanted so badly for some kind of open, attacking system, and yet when Murray opened things up a bit, the team didn't perform particularly well. They carry the puck across the blue line more, they grind and cycle less, and yet the offensive production is even LOWER than before! I guess that I've come to the tentative conclusion that this combination of team and coach is not suited for an open, offensive style. They have played their best hockey when they chip and chase, and run a cycle down low. Maybe people don't like that style, but that's the team that Lombardi has built and it seems misguided to try to force an open system on a team that doesn't have the skill for it.

HOWEVER, I still have my issues with Murray, because it seems like the team is only buying into the system about every other game. His message seems to have gone stale, and so maybe it's time for him to go.

In addition, I really dislike Murray's tactical coaching--his line match-ups, the way that he never seems to adjust to the situation in a game--and his roster management seems random. I could live with those issues if the team were buying into the system, executing, and getting reasonable results. The bottom line is that the team is not doing that.

agentfouser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 03:51 PM
  #31
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentfouser View Post
In addition, I really dislike Murray's tactical coaching--his line match-ups, the way that he never seems to adjust to the situation in a game--and his roster management seems random. I could live with those issues if the team were buying into the system, executing, and getting reasonable results. The bottom line is that the team is not doing that.
Murray is a good coach. The above is what is keeping him from being a great coach.

TM is like a player who is trying to do to much, he's forcing it. He knows exactly what he wants the team to do, and who he wants to do what, but he's not taking the other team into account nearly enough.

Like all sports, teams are most successful when they keep the other team guessing. Great pitchers mix up their stuff. O. coordinators get creative with plays and always have something in the bag of tricks for situations. With Murray, it's stick to the system. All we hear is "if we play our game, we'll be successful". That's great if you are playing a predictable opponent like in NHL '93 when you could score every shot, but not against another NHL team. Other teams know exactly what to expect and just adjust accordingly. They are never surprised by the Kings.

When we play CHI, SJ, or to a lesser extent DET, I never know what to expect. They have many more looks than we do and that's why they are so tough. Coaching is making more and more of a difference as the salary cap settles in, talent is more evenly spread. The offensively creative teams with solid defense are the ones that ultimately succeed. Minnesota is doing great right now, and props to them, but their systematic play will catch up to them. As Kings fans we know this all too well.

Fishhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 04:16 PM
  #32
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
I see where you're coming from and I'd like to agree but I can't.

We're in yr 6 of a 5 yr rebuild, and DL just traded away some young talent for top offensive talent.

THIS is the year they are supposed to play on a different level, make other teams look at the schedule and mark down when they "have to play the Kings again." But that certainly ain't happening, is it?

I like Murray, I really do - but he is not getting results. And it appears on paper that this team has plenty of talent. If this team is still floundering by end of Jan, TM needs to go.

Pitt changed their coach and won the Cup, StL just changed their coach and they went on a tear.

It's time to EXPECT this team to WIN. I see no need for any "major roster moves" at this time - the only other thing you can change is the coach.
This is year 5 of the 5 year rebuild. Not yer six.

Other than that, I agree with every word you wrote.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 04:18 PM
  #33
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
.... When we play CHI, SJ, or to a lesser extent DET, I never know what to expect. They have many more looks than we do and that's why they are so tough.
Great point- nail meet head. The kind of looks and adjustments you speak of should be made by the players on the ice, on the fly - either in response to what a coach tells them on the bench or from pregame prep.... but mostly it comes from players who are very comfortable with their system, know it and trust it completely, and play it instinctively. Detroit and Chicago are prime examples - their lines can play any attack within their basic structure depending upon what the opponent gives them. You'll see a line use dump and chase, low cycle, low-high with net presence, on one shift. Yet they are never out of place and they can throw the puck, sometimes blindly, to certain places on the ice knowing that 90 times out of 100 a team mate will be there because that's his assignment in the system.

It's not that they have more looks... it's that the players use all of the options available at speed without any problem. The Kings are still slow on that.... just as they are on the north to south breakouts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
Coaching is making more and more of a difference as the salary cap settles in, talent is more evenly spread. The offensively creative teams with solid defense are the ones that ultimately succeed. Minnesota is doing great right now, and props to them, but their systematic play will catch up to them. As Kings fans we know this all too well.
Excellent points. Give the opponent credit when they win, it's not like they are all much, much worse than us.

Duc620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 04:22 PM
  #34
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
This is year 5 of the 5 year rebuild. Not yer six.

Other than that, I agree with every word you wrote.
Crawford coached for 2 seasons and this is Murray's 4th season. 6th year for Lombardi.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 04:24 PM
  #35
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Crawford coached for 2 seasons and this is Murray's 4th season. 6th year for Lombardi.
Ah, ok.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 05:32 PM
  #36
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Crawford coached for 2 seasons and this is Murray's 4th season. 6th year for Lombardi.
noted on my play by play card....

Duc620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 05:43 PM
  #37
Duc620
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Three bad things with the Kings:

1) No ferocity.

2) Big gaps.

3) Slow first pass.


As for the first, determination always wears down talent, see the Capitals, Sharks, and Canucks. To the second, there's always too much space between forward and D or too much space between D and opponent. And for number three, D needs to just make the quick first north south pass, don't be looking around for a better play (especially at this point in the slump), just get it north - fast. That's when the Kings play their best. Doughty and Johnson both spend too much time with the puck or passing east west looking to draw the opponents forwards down.

As far as the D is concerned they can't do this while the forwards are twenty freaking feet away from them. Forwards need to control their gaps!

Duc620 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2011, 09:40 PM
  #38
Ollie Weeks
Registered User
 
Ollie Weeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, NWO
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,328
vCash: 500
The rebuild is over. We're just some team now. That word needs to be exercised from use.

Ollie Weeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2011, 09:42 AM
  #39
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Weeks View Post
The rebuild is over. We're just some team now. That word needs to be exercised from use.
Do you plan on hitting the gym to do this, or would some long-distance running and pilates do the trick?

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2011, 11:39 AM
  #40
Ollie Weeks
Registered User
 
Ollie Weeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, NWO
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Do you plan on hitting the gym to do this, or would some long-distance running and pilates do the trick?
Fire. I like fire.

But I understand my error. I shall not hide from it.

Ollie Weeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2011, 12:48 PM
  #41
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Which "system" wins tonight? Kings can't score 3 goals and the Ducks can't give up less than 3 goals.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 10:46 AM
  #42
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Here are the career average number of goals for the Kings that were expected to get ice time for the Kings this season. This is based on 82 games:

Code:
Gagne	31
Kopitar	29
Richards	25
Penner	24
Brown	22
Williams	20
Stoll	17
Hunter	17
Moreau	13
Richie	9
Clifford	6
Fraser	6
Lewis	3
Westy	1

Doughty	11
Johnson	7
Martinez	7
Mitchell	3
Greene	2
Scuderi	1



Total	254
That would be a 3.10 goals per game. This is their career average based on all games played, including this seasons dismal performances.

Murray didn't need to have anyone have a career season to get to 3 goals per game this season. Just had to be average and he can't get it done with this roster.

Sure, Hunter didn't have much of a chance of getting to 17 goals this season, but Voynov, Parse and Loktionov should have been enough to cover whatever he doesn't get. He's the only one that I see who shouldn't have been able to reach their average. Even if you throw out Hunter's 17 goals, the Kings should still be at 2.89 with nobody doing better than average.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 10:54 AM
  #43
kingsfan
#SutterforanOscar
 
kingsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,665
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Here are the career average number of goals for the Kings that were expected to get ice time for the Kings this season. This is based on 82 games:

Code:
Gagne	31
Kopitar	29
Richards	25
Penner	24
Brown	22
Williams	20
Stoll	17
Hunter	17
Moreau	13
Richie	9
Clifford	6
Fraser	6
Lewis	3
Westy	1

Doughty	11
Johnson	7
Martinez	7
Mitchell	3
Greene	2
Scuderi	1



Total	254
That would be a 3.10 goals per game. This is their career average based on all games played, including this seasons dismal performances.

Murray didn't need to have anyone have a career season to get to 3 goals per game this season. Just had to be average and he can't get it done with this roster.

Sure, Hunter didn't have much of a chance of getting to 17 goals this season, but Voynov, Parse and Loktionov should have been enough to cover whatever he doesn't get. He's the only one that I see who shouldn't have been able to reach their average. Even if you throw out Hunter's 17 goals, the Kings should still be at 2.89 with nobody doing better than average.
You should probably chuck out Fraser's goals, since most thought he'd be waived to start the season once he came off IR (and maybe would have been if not for an injury or two at the time). Aside from that, interesting read. A few guys like Moreau and Hunter likely wouldn't have done that much, but the rest should be able to come close to their career averages and some should have exceeded them. Many at the start of the year though Lewis was ready to bust out for us, at least compared to last years totals.

kingsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:35 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.