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Injury Talk 3.0: Gionta out indefinitely (bicep tear)

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Old
12-12-2011, 01:51 PM
  #401
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I feel so dirty, but i might be the only Habs fans that this news actually pleases.
I still like Gomez.
Me too. Glad to see him back on the ice.

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12-12-2011, 02:04 PM
  #402
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Me too. Glad to see him back on the ice.
Me three.

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12-12-2011, 02:45 PM
  #403
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You have a good attitude towards the whole situation.

Hard for some to believe, but...I'm also salivating at the thought of a PP that is powered by Markov, Kaberle, and Subban. We just need Markov to play for once and stay healthy #$%^&#$. (would also be great if Weber could one day find his PP magic 'cause he has good 35-40+pts/season PP specialist potential, but right now his defense is atrocious, so for now he's our #7-8-9dman or 4th line winger with possible PP time as a 4th line winger, but when White comes back Weber will have to sit).
One can only hope for success I agree for sure that Markov has to remain healthy for a change. It's hard to believe he's been out for as long as he has been... However the one thing I do add to his case, is that it has been all for the attempts at making the Canadiens a better team. He got injured in games for us... The least we could've done is what we did do IMO. He needed someone in his corner as well, & Gauthier rewarded him for his contributions to date.
Realistically, I found it hard, (still do) to not consider Markov a member of this team (I mean by way of FA, or Trade). To me, when healthy... He's bar none the best skater we have iced in at least a decade.
The PP and d-core in general, is going to be absolutely an exciting aspect to this team I remember when TB gave us fits in the 04 playoffs (where they won it all), based on the transition up ice from Sydor & Boyle... That was a great system they had there, with Khabibulin in his prime, stopping the show and those 2 capitalizing on essentially all the cracks within a team's offensive system.
While we dont have LeCavalier, or St. Louis... We have a great assortment of guys who have the ability to score a reasonable amount of goals.

Either way... I'm hoping in the eyes of the league... as Brock Lesner puts it: Gauthier make's Chicken **** turn in to Chicken Salad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwolf View Post
Digging your positivity! I hated the Kaberle trade when it happened, but I guess you're not far off in your analysis of the PP. Although, a lot of it is predicated on a healthy Markov which seems less and less tangible when it comes to salvaging this season. Kaberle's contract is problematic on a team with more than it's fair share of problematic contracts. Add that to a lack of size down the middle, a lack of creativity with the coaching and the fact that more than a third of the season has been played out with the Habs sitting on the outside looking in, and I don't think I would've made that deal.
I do sincerely hope you're right, though. Life's better when the Tricolore is flying!

We definately have a few differrent contract situations... But I digress that Spacek was one of them coming off this offseason. We replaced it with Kaberle, who has put up 40 assists 6 of the past 7 years (missing one year, due to injury)... Spacek even when signed, was coming off a strong 40 point campaign. In Kaberle, we have a puck mover, who IMO has a newer situation that feels a whole lot more like the old one, and perhaps can work out even better for him.
I see him as being here for 2 years, as buying us time until Beaulieau is ready to lace them up for us...
But in a league always trying to define the edge that champions get... A lot of the time it comes down to having multiple defencemen who can perform with great results. Our D-core is starting to shape up to one of those kind of scenarios.
Markov, Kaberle, Gorges, Subban, Emelin... That's 5 guys IMO that are very good to great defencemen...
add to those guys, specialists like Gill, or Weber
and a minute cruncher like Diaz & Campoli(who can safely play 18-20 minutes)...
& Suddenly, our D has gone from IMO below average (due to injury)
to average after the pick up (Kaberle will add to d-men point totals, and passing ability)
to above average, and rounding in to form down the stretch with the addition of Markov...

We will be adding potentially 80 pro-rated assists on the point (and that IS being conservative), adding potentially 20 pro-rated goals, for about 100 prorated points between Markov and Kaberle...
We gave up on Spacek, who has had a good start, and IMO was in line for 25-30 points... (Bear in mind he had a problem staying healthy this year as well)
and potentially the 15-25 points one of Weber or Diaz would give us in a full season...

So long as we are adding... I dont see it as patchwork (as some would say)and his Salary is below what I felt Wiz could have been had for... 4.25 is a fair price for a 40 a d-man with the consistency of Kaberle... regardless to his problem rounding in to shape in what was probably the biggest roller-coaster 2 years of his life, let alone his career. (Divorce, Trade Rumours, Wrong Chemistry, Being traded for the first time ever, signing a legitimate UFA contract coming off of a definately up and down season.
Kaberle is a consummate professional... And I do think his 6 assists over the past 3 games is proof that he is starting to settle down. It took a 1/4 of a season, but I do think he has a strong 2nd 1/2... Even just to think... Kaberle is 6 hours away from his kids (which was a big part to the reason why he was hanging on to staying in Toronto, after the divorce), and in the same country now. He CAN start enjoying the luxury of being able to play here, and still keep a home close to his kids, AND be able to visit them, often.
Already when I heard this, I only thought to myself... This is going to be great for his psyche. He's got a good friend on the team, and lots of skill to lay with...IMO he's going to nest right in, and make all those GM's who said their piece about the trade Eat some crow.
Furthermore, when Kaberle does get rolling... Rutherford isnt going to look very good, realizing he burned him in the media, and was impatient in allowing him to find his game... We worry about what the players are going to think about Gomez, when his contract has been dealt with... When we're going on over a year since he gave us a decent performance... And even that year he had, was not worth the money he was paid.
Gomez will have the second half to reclaim his NHL career again... But I would not be surprised if it is him that goes... as he's running out of reasons to stay. There was a bit of interest over the past year in Gomez... As far as I understood, Phoenix, the Isles, and St. Louis are 3 teams with a moderate interest in how the Gomez situation turns out... I think Gauthier finds a way and gets rid of him this offseason.

That being said... really, AFTER Gomez... our contract scenario is not really all that bad.

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Old
12-12-2011, 03:47 PM
  #404
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One can only hope for success I agree for sure that Markov has to remain healthy for a change. It's hard to believe he's been out for as long as he has been... However the one thing I do add to his case, is that it has been all for the attempts at making the Canadiens a better team. He got injured in games for us... The least we could've done is what we did do IMO. He needed someone in his corner as well, & Gauthier rewarded him for his contributions to date.
Realistically, I found it hard, (still do) to not consider Markov a member of this team (I mean by way of FA, or Trade). To me, when healthy... He's bar none the best skater we have iced in at least a decade.
The PP and d-core in general, is going to be absolutely an exciting aspect to this team I remember when TB gave us fits in the 04 playoffs (where they won it all), based on the transition up ice from Sydor & Boyle... That was a great system they had there, with Khabibulin in his prime, stopping the show and those 2 capitalizing on essentially all the cracks within a team's offensive system.
While we dont have LeCavalier, or St. Louis... We have a great assortment of guys who have the ability to score a reasonable amount of goals.

Either way... I'm hoping in the eyes of the league... as Brock Lesner puts it: Gauthier make's Chicken **** turn in to Chicken Salad.




We definately have a few differrent contract situations... But I digress that Spacek was one of them coming off this offseason. We replaced it with Kaberle, who has put up 40 assists 6 of the past 7 years (missing one year, due to injury)... Spacek even when signed, was coming off a strong 40 point campaign. In Kaberle, we have a puck mover, who IMO has a newer situation that feels a whole lot more like the old one, and perhaps can work out even better for him.
I see him as being here for 2 years, as buying us time until Beaulieau is ready to lace them up for us...
But in a league always trying to define the edge that champions get... A lot of the time it comes down to having multiple defencemen who can perform with great results. Our D-core is starting to shape up to one of those kind of scenarios.
Markov, Kaberle, Gorges, Subban, Emelin... That's 5 guys IMO that are very good to great defencemen...
add to those guys, specialists like Gill, or Weber
and a minute cruncher like Diaz & Campoli(who can safely play 18-20 minutes)...
& Suddenly, our D has gone from IMO below average (due to injury)
to average after the pick up (Kaberle will add to d-men point totals, and passing ability)
to above average, and rounding in to form down the stretch with the addition of Markov...

We will be adding potentially 80 pro-rated assists on the point (and that IS being conservative), adding potentially 20 pro-rated goals, for about 100 prorated points between Markov and Kaberle...
We gave up on Spacek, who has had a good start, and IMO was in line for 25-30 points... (Bear in mind he had a problem staying healthy this year as well)
and potentially the 15-25 points one of Weber or Diaz would give us in a full season...

So long as we are adding... I dont see it as patchwork (as some would say)and his Salary is below what I felt Wiz could have been had for... 4.25 is a fair price for a 40 a d-man with the consistency of Kaberle... regardless to his problem rounding in to shape in what was probably the biggest roller-coaster 2 years of his life, let alone his career. (Divorce, Trade Rumours, Wrong Chemistry, Being traded for the first time ever, signing a legitimate UFA contract coming off of a definately up and down season.
Kaberle is a consummate professional... And I do think his 6 assists over the past 3 games is proof that he is starting to settle down. It took a 1/4 of a season, but I do think he has a strong 2nd 1/2... Even just to think... Kaberle is 6 hours away from his kids (which was a big part to the reason why he was hanging on to staying in Toronto, after the divorce), and in the same country now. He CAN start enjoying the luxury of being able to play here, and still keep a home close to his kids, AND be able to visit them, often.
Already when I heard this, I only thought to myself... This is going to be great for his psyche. He's got a good friend on the team, and lots of skill to lay with...IMO he's going to nest right in, and make all those GM's who said their piece about the trade Eat some crow.
Furthermore, when Kaberle does get rolling... Rutherford isnt going to look very good, realizing he burned him in the media, and was impatient in allowing him to find his game... We worry about what the players are going to think about Gomez, when his contract has been dealt with... When we're going on over a year since he gave us a decent performance... And even that year he had, was not worth the money he was paid.
Gomez will have the second half to reclaim his NHL career again... But I would not be surprised if it is him that goes... as he's running out of reasons to stay. There was a bit of interest over the past year in Gomez... As far as I understood, Phoenix, the Isles, and St. Louis are 3 teams with a moderate interest in how the Gomez situation turns out... I think Gauthier finds a way and gets rid of him this offseason.

That being said... really, AFTER Gomez... our contract scenario is not really all that bad.
You make some interesting points. Kaberle could finally be in a situation that allows him to flourish. Time will tell.
As far as toxic contracts go, however, I think you're a little too confident in Gauthier's ability to deal Gomez. If he plays a great second half, it becomes possible. Just possible. Otherwise, it'll come down to whether Molson is willing to eat the contract and stick him in the minors or buy him out.
Regardless, Markov is the linchpin for the rest of the season. If he comes back and performs at a Markovian level, then everyone looks better including Kaberle.

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Old
12-12-2011, 04:49 PM
  #405
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soooooooo

Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Cammalleri
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
LeBlanc - Eller - Gionta
Gomez - Nokelainen - Moen

eventually

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Old
12-12-2011, 05:05 PM
  #406
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anyone know where you can check the stat that has total games missed to injury , it combines all our injuries and counts them up, i remember seeing it somewhere


Those stats are from the beginning of season until the start of December.

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12-12-2011, 05:08 PM
  #407
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soooooooo

Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Cammalleri
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
LeBlanc - Eller - Gionta
Gomez - Nokelainen - Moen

eventually
What about one of my favorite Habs : Ryan White ?

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Old
12-12-2011, 05:20 PM
  #408
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Those stats are from the beginning of season until the start of December.
What everyone should take away from that is that in addition to being the worst off in every category currently, they remain in the top 3 across the board even if you eliminate Markov entirely.

They were legitmately decimated in manner that is not typical for an NHL team and it wasn't just because Markov hasn't returned.

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12-12-2011, 08:28 PM
  #409
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Me three.
Well, you can minus me from the group.

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12-12-2011, 08:33 PM
  #410
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Those stats are from the beginning of season until the start of December.
It's misleading regarding Boston. We are all pretty sure Savard's carreer is over. They really did not loose any significant players to injury this season up to last game when they lost Chara for a week or two.

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12-12-2011, 10:37 PM
  #411
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So when do they say Mrkov will be back? Will he be back before the end of January?

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12-12-2011, 11:15 PM
  #412
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i believe all-star week-end is the approximate date given for his return. so feb 1st.

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12-12-2011, 11:55 PM
  #413
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Correct me if I'm wrong. Markov return dates have been so far...

Start of season

End of October

Mid November

Late December

Early February

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12-13-2011, 12:21 AM
  #414
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What about one of my favorite Habs : Ryan White ?
Maybe over Woe-ber at RW or as #13, but Leblanc could provide stiff competition.

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12-13-2011, 06:00 AM
  #415
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One can only hope for success I agree for sure that Markov has to remain healthy for a change. It's hard to believe he's been out for as long as he has been... However the one thing I do add to his case, is that it has been all for the attempts at making the Canadiens a better team. He got injured in games for us... The least we could've done is what we did do IMO. He needed someone in his corner as well, & Gauthier rewarded him for his contributions to date.
Realistically, I found it hard, (still do) to not consider Markov a member of this team (I mean by way of FA, or Trade). To me, when healthy... He's bar none the best skater we have iced in at least a decade.
The PP and d-core in general, is going to be absolutely an exciting aspect to this team I remember when TB gave us fits in the 04 playoffs (where they won it all), based on the transition up ice from Sydor & Boyle... That was a great system they had there, with Khabibulin in his prime, stopping the show and those 2 capitalizing on essentially all the cracks within a team's offensive system.
While we dont have LeCavalier, or St. Louis... We have a great assortment of guys who have the ability to score a reasonable amount of goals.

Either way... I'm hoping in the eyes of the league... as Brock Lesner puts it: Gauthier make's Chicken **** turn in to Chicken Salad. ...



...That being said... really, AFTER Gomez... our contract scenario is not really all that bad.
About the 04 Tampa team...that was a solid team and I always hope it's our turn almost everytime we make the playoffs!! (realistic or not!). And...I also thought Calgary came so close to beating Tampa...something about a refused goal if I remember...

IF our Habs can beat our worst enemy...INJURIES, and stay healthy, then who knows? I believe we can go far especially with a hot goalie and solid defense that can help the PP...we just have to stay healthy and put it all together at the right time and away we go!! (I really like our top 9 and also White on the 4th line when he returns...with all our healthy forwards Moen and White are perfect for our 4th line...they can even play well on the 3rd sometimes).

Markov...some may not believe it, but...I do get tired of my own complaining! (I always complain about how it's been almost 3 seasons of Markov's injuries).
In the end, I'd much rather talk about how Markov is finally helping our Habs instead of all this rehab talk, knee talk, setback talk, minor surgery talk, delay in his return, more doctor visits, more delays in his return, etc...it's pretty depressing! I'd rather talk about how he's helping our Habs, our PP, Gomez, etc... I really hope it happens in end of January or is his return February now?! (getting close to the March Trade Deadline!). I really hope Markov's body doesn't let us down again this season... we would all love to see a PowerPlay with Markov, Kaberle and Subban (already getting excited but have to remain a bit calm since it's Markov's body we're talking about here!).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 12-13-2011 at 06:38 AM.
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12-13-2011, 06:30 AM
  #416
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About the 04 Tampa team...that was a solid team and I always hope it's our turn almost everytime we make the playoffs!! (realistic or not!). And...I also thought Calgary came so close to beating Tampa...something about a refused goal if I remember...

IF our Habs can beat our worst enemy...INJURIES, and stay healthy, then who knows? I believe we can go far especially with a hot goalie and solid defense that can help the PP...we just have to stay healthy and put it all together at the right time and away we go!! (I really like our top 9 and also White on the 4th line when he returns...with all our healthy forwards Moen and White are perfect for our 4th line...they can even play well on the 3rd sometimes).

Markov...some may not believe it, but...I do get tired of my own complaining! (I always complain about how it's been almost 3 seasons of Markov's injuries).

In the end, I'd much rather talk about how Markov is finally helping our Habs instead of all this rehab talk, knee talk, setback talk, minor surgery talk, delay in his return, more doctor visits, more delays in his return, etc...it's pretty depressing! I'd rather talk about how he's helping our Habs, our PP, Gomez, etc... I really hope it happens in end of January or is his return February now?! (getting close to the March Trade Deadline!). I really hope Markov's body doesn't let us down again this season... we would all love to see a PowerPlay with Markov, Kaberle and Subban (already getting excited but have to remain a bit calm since it's Markov's body we're talking about here!).
why should we ? that's pretty much all you do.

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12-13-2011, 07:21 AM
  #417
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Maybe over Woe-ber at RW or as #13, but Leblanc could provide stiff competition.
Who the hell is Woe-ber?

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12-13-2011, 07:36 AM
  #418
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Correct me if I'm wrong. Markov return dates have been so far...

Start of season 2011 NOPE

End of October 2011 NOPE

Mid November 2011 NOPE

Late December 2011 NOPE

Late January 2012 NOPE

Early February 2012 LET'S HOPE

Don't get me started!!
(I'll bet that in February he starts skating again and then...he'll see a doctor again, another setback will happen and then...another new return-date will be set yet again...maybe March? *sigh*). Obviously I want to be wrong! If the return date is postponed till March...I wonder how many loyal-Markov fans will have smoke coming out of their ears! I just hope he plays 15-20 games before the TRADE DEADLINE...this is what is preoccupying my mind. Our Habs may want to get a solid top 4 dman before the deadline (just an example: using Weber as trade bait), or maybe not if the price is too much.



To ECWHSWI:
Someone has to complain about Markov's absence! (I don't complain about Gomez, Darche, and Weber, well...just a little recently because of his terrible D ; so it balances out!).

Solution? Markov has to finally comeback and shut Hab fans like me up (no more knee or rehab or setback talk) and play like he can and help our Habs once and for all...he may need at least 20-30 games to regain some of his cerebral skillset. (and 1st pairing right away? no way! he will need ''soft'' 2nd or 3rd pairing minutes to get used to the NHL again and all the PP he can handle, imo, and...keep him away from the Lucics, E.Staals, Cookes, Grabovskis! out there!). He has to show Hab fans (like myself) that all this waiting (2 1/2 years) was worth it. Pressure much?!

I'm still waiting for Markov to prove me wrong...'cause I really want to see Kaberle AND Markov on the PP!!! (pretty please! I won't hold my breath though...tired of false hope but can't help it...really want to see Markov and Kaberle dominate the PP).


The clock is ticking for Markov's return: 2009...2010....2011...2012...


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 12-13-2011 at 07:45 AM.
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12-13-2011, 10:05 PM
  #419
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moen left game after blocking a shot.

if he cannot play next game then they will need to call up a forward.

my vote goes to Brian Willsie. i would like to see what he has to offer. current point leader in hamilton

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12-13-2011, 10:22 PM
  #420
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moen left game after blocking a shot.

if he cannot play next game then they will need to call up a forward.

my vote goes to Brian Willsie. i would like to see what he has to offer. current point leader in hamilton
Palushaj or Engqvist will be the call up.

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12-13-2011, 10:25 PM
  #421
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Palushaj or Engqvist will be the call up.
Blunden? Too bad Conboy is out.

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12-13-2011, 10:35 PM
  #422
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Ian Schultz is back to playing for the Bulldogs.

He also has one more goal this season than Gomez.

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12-13-2011, 11:07 PM
  #423
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moen left game after blocking a shot.

if he cannot play next game then they will need to call up a forward.

my vote goes to Brian Willsie. i would like to see what he has to offer. current point leader in hamilton
Why ?

Martin loves playing d-men up front. Emelin is available !

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12-14-2011, 04:53 AM
  #424
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Why ?

Martin loves playing d-men up front. Emelin is available !
Emelin on the 4th line!! ( or no ?!).
At least he won't be a healthy scratch!

Seriously...I love Emelin's bodychecking like every other Hab fan, and I'd sign him to another 2 or 3 years at maybe $1mil/year to $1,25mil/year?, but...I hope he improves his defense (in our zone he often looks at the puck carrier too long instead of taking his man, and I've noticed he's not always on the correct side which leaves an open man with too much space...and his puckhandling in our zone can improve...hopefully he can correct all of this since we like his fair - not dirty - but hard bodychecks).


No Moen for next game?

Emelin?! - Nokia - Darche?/Weber?

?


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 12-14-2011 at 05:12 AM.
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12-14-2011, 05:08 AM
  #425
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To ECWHSWI:
Someone has to complain about Markov's absence! (I don't complain about Gomez, Darche, and Weber, well...just a little recently because of his terrible D ; so it balances out!).

Solution? Markov has to finally comeback and shut Hab fans like me up (no more knee or rehab or setback talk) and play like he can and help our Habs once and for all...he may need at least 20-30 games to regain some of his cerebral skillset. (and 1st pairing right away? no way! he will need ''soft'' 2nd or 3rd pairing minutes to get used to the NHL again and all the PP he can handle, imo, and...keep him away from the Lucics, E.Staals, Cookes, Grabovskis! out there!). He has to show Hab fans (like myself) that all this waiting (2 1/2 years) was worth it. Pressure much?!

I'm still waiting for Markov to prove me wrong...'cause I really want to see Kaberle AND Markov on the PP!!! (pretty please! I won't hold my breath though...tired of false hope but can't help it...really want to see Markov and Kaberle dominate the PP).


The clock is ticking for Markov's return: 2009...2010....2011...2012...
actually no, you dont HAVE to.

ECWHSWI is online now  
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