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With Goligoski and Daley Returning Soon - What to do with the 8th D?

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Old
12-10-2011, 06:40 PM
  #51
BigG44
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Someone did mention Voracek btw. I think he is in the same boat as Simmonds. I don't see how an UFA with an expiring contract could land either one .... regardless of Grossman also being young.

That said, if your goal was to improve the Top 6 and Voracek was a legitimate option, his passing skills would probably fit nicely with Eriksson and Benn.

Then you'd have a playmaker on both Top 6 lines.

The issue is where does the odd man currently in the Top 6 go? I don't know why anyone would want to touch that 3rd line right now. That means you're probably burying Ott or Ryder on the 4th line. I just can't see Gulutzen doing that despite some fans thinking that would be great.

I would think an Ott-Wandell-Vincour line would get plenty of ice time (assuming Ryder went to Ribs line, and Voracek slipt in on Benn's line).

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12-10-2011, 06:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
I would still rather trade Robidas.
Me too. I just can't wrap my head around it happening at this point in the season. Would be great though.

I think most people would feel that is a great option. Like I said I do as well.

Here's my major hold up though:

1) Everyone in the organization is really high on him. Still, I think they would move him.

2) Next hurdle is a NTC which appears to be full and not limited.

3) So now you need to find a team he is willing to accept a trade to.

4) That means it's probably a contender.

5) Most contenders have very little or no cap space so now you need an even money swap.

There are a ton of hurdles.

I just think an off-season trade is easier and more realistic. In a perfect world without these hurdles, yeah I'd want this to be option 1.

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12-10-2011, 07:15 PM
  #53
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I don't see how Grossman as the main piece from our end would land Voracek. Like, it's pipe dream talk IMO.

Regarding Robidas, I disagree that he's better off as an offseason trade. History has proven higher prices placed on veteran players at the trade deadline as opposed to the summer. The teams that feel they have a legitimate shot at a Cup are likely to fork over more than those "putting together" a team and the picture of contenders is much more clear in February than July. Also, his cap hit as a midseason acquisition is easier to accommodate halfway or later in the season than you're making it out to be BigG. Most contenders have saved space and/or have an expendable contract that could be made to go away somehow. A $3'ish million player isn't that hard or uncommon to fit at the deadline.

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12-10-2011, 07:19 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Ohhh ... no worries. That is a legitimate concern, but Sean Avery was called up by NY several weeks ago. Dallas is beyond comfortable with their distance to the floor. They're probably close to $2 million over like they were with Avery in the mix to begin with.
Ah, I was unaware that cap hit would come back. I thought it was gone permanently.

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12-10-2011, 08:21 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I don't see how Grossman as the main piece from our end would land Voracek. Like, it's pipe dream talk IMO.

Regarding Robidas, I disagree that he's better off as an offseason trade. History has proven higher prices placed on veteran players at the trade deadline as opposed to the summer. The teams that feel they have a legitimate shot at a Cup are likely to fork over more than those "putting together" a team and the picture of contenders is much more clear in February than July. Also, his cap hit as a midseason acquisition is easier to accommodate halfway or later in the season than you're making it out to be BigG. Most contenders have saved space and/or have an expendable contract that could be made to go away somehow. A $3'ish million player isn't that hard or uncommon to fit at the deadline.
Robidas' cap hit at the deadline will be over $700K. 8 teams don't have than in cap space right now. The trade everyone is talking about now is too fix a problem of 8 D that has to be solved in a week or 2 depending on Burish getting healthy (which would put the roster at 24). He has over $2 million remaining on his contract right now. 12 teams in the NHL right now couldn't acquire him without sending money back.

It's really not inaccurate at all. It's a legitimate hurdle. I never said it was deal breaker so that is entirely accurate.

Plus glossing over the NTC doesn't make it go away. Daley is the only Star on record to say that he'd waive if asked. In reality, most players in the past have taken full advantage of their movement clause though to control their future. If anything, history consistently shows the team trying to move a player with a NTC/NMC gets a diminished return.

So yeah ... like I said ... there are clear roadblocks that make a trade of Robidas difficult. Never once said it was impossible though.

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12-10-2011, 08:47 PM
  #56
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Grossman for Simmonds strikes me as being generally fair. I don't think we'd need to add anyone.

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12-10-2011, 09:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Plus glossing over the NTC doesn't make it go away.
Perhaps I am glossing over it but if a team like Boston or Washington (for example) were to make a pitch for his services I think that he would be happy to be thought of as a piece toward winning a championship and ultimately give his blessing. Of course, maybe he wouldn't want to move the kids, I don't know.

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12-10-2011, 11:41 PM
  #58
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Grossman for simmonds doesn't really make sense to me. I like simmonds, but we already have plenty of player like him (3rd-2nd line tweeners). If were going to make a trade I'd really like to get a top 6 player in return. I also don't know if I like the idea of trading our only true stay at home d man

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12-11-2011, 02:30 AM
  #59
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Simmonds just screams 3rd line specialist to me, not really what we are looking for.

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12-11-2011, 11:04 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Perhaps I am glossing over it but if a team like Boston or Washington (for example) were to make a pitch for his services I think that he would be happy to be thought of as a piece toward winning a championship and ultimately give his blessing. Of course, maybe he wouldn't want to move the kids, I don't know.
Now you are going somewhere I can work with.

Washington is the exact type of situation I'm talking about that is going to be extremely difficult. They are over the cap surviving only on LTIR space which is almost completely used up. You would without question need a $3.3 million roster player coming back (or a combination of 2 or more - and Dallas will already be at 24 bodies when Burish returns).

That's a very difficult situation to work a trade this early in the season. I don't want to say impossible, but this is pretty much the worst team to work with.

Now Boston on the other hand was a great team to bring up. In fact probably the perfect team. They have over $3 million in cap space, and that doesn't even include Savard on LTIR They could actually acquire significantly more salary than Robidas. They are in fantastic position to add multiple players to gear up for another run at the Cup.

I was just looking for a realistic situation where multiple things don't have to work perfectly for a trade to go down. That is why in season trades with big cap hits are difficult.

So if you shifted gears to Robidas, what works (and is realistic) from Boston?

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12-11-2011, 11:06 AM
  #61
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Detroit is also a possibility, but if they added him this early, he'd likely be there big acquisition of the season whereas Boston will still have significant flexibility.

The longer Detroit waits, the better their flexibility gets.

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12-11-2011, 11:56 AM
  #62
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How about we work a three team trade with Philly and Boston? Something along the lines of:
To phi: grossman

To bos: simmonds, morrow, pardy

To dal: krecji, macquaid.

Philly basically does a grossman for simmonds swap, which most people feel is fair. Boston gets a vet winger, and young grinder and a d to replace macquaid. Dallas gets a new center allowing benn to shift back to left wing taking morrows spot, macquaid replaces grossman as our big shut down d man and adds a bit more toughness, and giving up pardy clears space for larsen.

Top six would look something like:
Benn-krecji-Ryder
Ott-ribiero-eriksson

D pairs:
Goose-macquaid
Fistric-Larsen
Robidas-Daley
Or something of that effect.

Makes tweaks if necessary.

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Old
12-11-2011, 12:49 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecantscorefromthere View Post
How about we work a three team trade with Philly and Boston? Something along the lines of:
To phi: grossman

To bos: simmonds, morrow, pardy

To dal: krecji, macquaid.

Philly basically does a grossman for simmonds swap, which most people feel is fair. Boston gets a vet winger, and young grinder and a d to replace macquaid. Dallas gets a new center allowing benn to shift back to left wing taking morrows spot, macquaid replaces grossman as our big shut down d man and adds a bit more toughness, and giving up pardy clears space for larsen.

Top six would look something like:
Benn-krecji-Ryder
Ott-ribiero-eriksson

D pairs:
Goose-macquaid
Fistric-Larsen
Robidas-Daley
Or something of that effect.

Makes tweaks if necessary.
would love Krejci but I dont see Boston moving him

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12-11-2011, 03:23 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
So if you shifted gears to Robidas, what works (and is realistic) from Boston?
I honestly have no idea what Joe would be looking for or what Boston would be willing or eager to part with in terms of assets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecantscorefromthere View Post
Makes tweaks if necessary.
This isn't tweakable. If Dallas had just re-signed a mid 20's center who is more or less a 70 point scorer who also plays good defense to a long term deal would that player be dealt? Of course not. Then you add the fact that he was a big part of their Cup run and presumably in trying to repeat and it's not worth even discussing IMO. Boston has a lot of really good players and Krejci is one they identified as being part of their core.

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12-11-2011, 03:40 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I honestly have no idea what Joe would be looking for or what Boston would be willing or eager to part with in terms of assets.




This isn't tweakable. If Dallas had just re-signed a mid 20's center who is more or less a 70 point scorer who also plays good defense to a long term deal would that player be dealt? Of course not. Then you add the fact that he was a big part of their Cup run and presumably in trying to repeat and it's not worth even discussing IMO. Boston has a lot of really good players and Krejci is one they identified as being part of their core.
Well the only reason I included krecji was because alot of Boston fans said they would do a morrow for krecji swap when I mentioned it in the trade board. Although I did forget he just resigned with them.

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12-13-2011, 10:37 PM
  #66
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So Razor starts to talk about this situation ... compliments how well Larsen is playing right now ... mentions Fistric is back Thursday ... then he just sort of trails off.

That sucks.

Fistric coming back really doesn't mean that much .... unless they just decide to sent Larsen down right away.

Trading Barch has the roster at 22 now with Fistric suspended and Burish on IR. Nothing officially has to be done until Burish is ready. The last thing I heard about him was he'd be ready 10 days after Goligoski.

Barring a setback, that puts him back in the lineup on Monday at home against the Ducks. I don't see the need to open a new thread or anything, but that means that Dallas has another big decision other than solving the 8 D issue.

Who comes out for Burish to go in?

In a perfect world for me, I think you keep Vincour up a bit longer. I don't care how it happens, but I'd like to see Burish, Larsen, and Vincour playing against the Ducks. Trade Robidas. Trade/Waive Pardy ... whatever. Keep the young guys for right now.

Eriksson-Benn-Ryder
Morrow-Ribeiro-Ott
Nystrom-Fiddler-Dvorak
Burish-Wandell-Vincour

Goligoski-Larsen
Grossman-Daley
Souray-Robidas

Bachman

I think it's probably getting to the point that the Top 6 needs a shakeup, but I don't want to ask for too much. Just run with Larsen and Vincour for now.

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12-13-2011, 10:42 PM
  #67
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I just can't figure out how to make a switch in the Top 6 without making a pretty bold move of dumping a guy all the way to technically the 4th line. You just can't mess with the 3rd line right now.

Plus, who in the Bottom 6 really deserves a shot in the Top 6. Vincour and Wandell are playing really well, but I don't know that they've earned Top 6 minutes. Coming back from a broken hand, Burish probably should not be taking those minutes.

I guess the best case scenario at this point is to just shuffle Ryder and Ott. However, now Ribs is doing faceoffs on his on. So ... do you shuffle Morrow and Ryder?

Morrow-Benn-Eriksson
Ott-Ribeiro-Ryder

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12-13-2011, 10:47 PM
  #68
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How about we just move the 3rd line to the 1st line

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12-13-2011, 11:25 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Eriksson-Benn-Ryder
Morrow-Ribeiro-Ott
Nystrom-Fiddler-Dvorak
Burish-Wandell-Vincour

Goligoski-Larsen
Grossman-Daley
Souray-Robidas

Lehtonen
Bachman
I have no problem with running that. Maybe juggle the offensive around if it doesn't work, but I think those are the right players to be in the line up. As for defense, interchange Fistric with whoever based on injury/level of play.

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Old
12-13-2011, 11:37 PM
  #70
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I think Eriksson needs to go back to RW. He says he notices no difference on which he plays, but statistically he's done better as a RW the past 2 years.

Ott-Benn-Eriksson (Switches Ott and Eriksson back to their strong sides)
Morrow-Riberio-Ryder

Try it again. Riberio/Morrow are different players now then they were at the start of the year. The Benn line hasn't produced since Carolina. Give Ribs another shot at having a RW shot.

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12-14-2011, 10:21 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post
Ott-Benn-Eriksson (Switches Ott and Eriksson back to their strong sides)
Morrow-Riberio-Ryder
I just have a problem with Ribs being on his own. Benn's stats actually aren't a ton better right now, but Ribs is a 40% faceoff man this year. I think he is trending up from awful (wasn't he below 40% early in the season), but it's an issue.

After Ott got injured, they said they were already considering breaking up Ryder and Ribs, and I believe it was the faceoff issue. That is why Burish went to the line at the time. I also think that is why Ott has stayed with Ribs now even thought the Top 6 is healthy.

I get that it could be a bit drastic to split up Ribs and Morrow since they like to play with one another, but no one in the Top is doing much right now. It might be a good jolt to get things moving, and you still have Ott to support Ribs in the circle. Plus, you get Eriksson back to the RW like you want.

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12-14-2011, 12:54 PM
  #72
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Ooohhh ... Heika said they might roll 7 D per Gulutzen.

I assume that means Benn gets double shifted with Wandell and Vincour. I like that idea.

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12-14-2011, 01:09 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Ooohhh ... Heika said they might roll 7 D per Gulutzen.

I assume that means Benn gets double shifted with Wandell and Vincour. I like that idea.
I do like this idea... but it's not like we're over playing D right now. They're all hovering around 19-21 minutes. Maybe we'll see Souray get reduced ES time.

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12-14-2011, 03:20 PM
  #74
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Wandell-Benn-Ott
Morrow-Ribeiro-Eriksson
Nystrom-Fiddler-Ryder
Vincour-Benn-Dvorak

Do it.

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12-14-2011, 03:39 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Wandell-Benn-Ott
Morrow-Ribeiro-Eriksson
Nystrom-Fiddler-Ryder
Vincour-Benn-Dvorak

Do it.

Why break up the third line, though?

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